I had almost finished my remarks before Question Time——
Electricity (Supply) (Amendment) Bill, 1976: Second Stage (Resumed).
Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
I would ask the Minister to reply to points made by me. He may have replied when I was not present in the House and in that case I will not ask him to repeat his statements. One question referred to the case where the charge was in excess of £700. Will the person concerned have to pay the amount in addition to the £36?
I dealt with that in my speech. I hope I gave an adequate explanation of how the charges were calculated.
I thank the Minister. I will not ask him to repeat what he said.
As I pointed out earlier, it is not possible for me to go into each individual case raised by Deputies. I have not got all the necessary information to say whether a particular applicant would come under the terms of this Bill. However, if any Deputy has any case he would like me to consider I shall gladly do so. Deputy Briscoe has already drawn one case to my attention and if Deputy Callanan or any other Deputy has a case they wish to be considered I shall take it up with the ESB and find out the position.
With regard to the point raised by Deputy Herbert, I am afraid I may not have enough information to satisfy him but I will tell him the position as I understand it. The Deputy asked if the EEC Regional Fund could be used as a contribution towards this scheme. I understand it could not. The fund will not contribute towards the cost of non-farm installations. The regional fund could contribute assistance towards the cost of infrastructural development but this scheme is intended to cater for people who apply for a domestic supply of current and not for infrastructure as that is generally meant. For that reason I understand the scheme would not qualify under the regional fund for a grant from the EEC——
I beg to dispute that point. I submit that under Article 4, paragraph C, of the regulations of the regional fund areas classified as disadvantaged under Directives 160 and 168 of 1975 catering for the disadvantaged areas——
I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy. He will appreciate the Minister is replying to the Second Reading of this Bill and there can be no further debate. I will facilitate the Deputy by way of a question when the Minister has concluded his speech and not until then.
I am just making the point——
The Deputy may not intervene in such a fashion. He has been making a speech.
I am not making a speech. I am just saying that this project could qualify for 30 per cent regional aid——
If the Deputy has a question I will facilitate him.
The project could qualify under Article 4, paragraph C, of the fund regulations which specifically states——
The Minister must be allowed to reply.
On a point of order——
It is not a point of order.
Well, it is a point of explanation.
I cannot allow that now.
I have given as full an explanation as I can of the point raised by the Deputy. I understand that the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries have applied for assistance from the regional fund for electricity for rural areas but under this Bill the people who will be catered for are in existing houses and they are looking for a supply under the subsidised rural electrification scheme. It is only in respect of domestic current.
The regulations state very clearly that there is provision——
This procedure is not in order. The Deputy must resume his seat and allow the Minister to reply. If he has a relevant question at the conclusion of the Minister's speech the Chair will facilitate him.
I will put down a question next week.
Deputy Barrett and practically every Deputy who spoke in the debate mentioned the confusion with regard to the charges. They said that many people who could participate in the scheme did not appreciate what was in the Bill. Deputy Callanan was under a misapprehension regarding the figure of £700.
With regard to people who refused connection in the period 1971 to 1975 because they were unable to pay the contribution asked, they will now have paid for them the capital contribution necessary to allow their houses to be connected. The method of assessment is involved and complicated. The £700 is made up of a special service charge and a fixed charge and the amount in excess of that of the capital contribution will be refunded to the ESB by my Department. So far as concerns the 800 or 900 people involved, the scheme will be most welcome. I do not pretend it is an earth-shattering piece of legislation and that it will change the face of rural Ireland. It is a Bill designed for a specific purpose, to relieve a specific hardship for people in very remote parts of the country. When the electricity is connected to their houses I hope they will feel in some small measure that the imbalance with regard to their quality of life and that of their neighbours in more advanced economic regions will be somewhat redressed. I also hope they will continue to play a vital and most significant role in the development of this country by remaining in rural areas and contributing to the advancement of the economy of their region and the country as a whole.
Is the Minister clearly stating that this would not qualify for European regional aid?
I am not qualified to judge that. These schemes are put forward by various Departments to the Department of Finance who then list them in order of merit and submit them to the EEC. This rural electrification scheme has been put forward by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. I understand it was either not accepted or was not high up enough on the list of priorities for the EEC to advance funds for it.
It was submitted?
A scheme for rural electrification for farm outbuildings was submitted through the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries.
And it would not be accepted by the EEC?
I am not saying that. I am saying that it has not been accepted on the list of existing projects for this year.
Is the Minister saying that it would qualify?
I do not know. This scheme has not been put forward because it relates to domestic supply and the cost is being met by the Exchequer. The Department of Agriculture and Fisheries have put forward a scheme to help farmers extend electricity outside their domestic residence for the purpose of milking parlours and other machinery. This scheme either is not high enough on the list of priorities or it was scrubbed by the EEC. I do not know which.
The Minister said he hoped no one would be omitted from this scheme and if we knew of anybody we should let him or his office know about them. Would not the ESB at district level have a record of all those who were quoted and did not accept? The ESB could tell the Minister who these people are so that no one would be left out because many of those people may not read Dáil Debates.
I accept what the Deputy said and I will ask the ESB to ensure that this is brought to the attention of all the people concerned.
As Deputy Staunton said very forcefully, Deputies can be a help in their own areas by reminding people who qualify under the scheme to apply and the benefits that are there if they apply.
I am not yet clear on the £700 because there was a lot of confusion in this area. Am I to take it that if all charges exceed £700 they are covered in this Bill or that if the capital charges are up to £700 they are covered? Which is the case?
It is because all charges exceeded £700 for the people catered for here that the Bill has been brought in. A sum up to £700 would be paid by the consumer by way of a 5.2 per cent interest rate on £700. This would be divided into a fixed charge and a special service charge. Over £700 the consumer was asked to pay a capital contribution of from £200 to £600 and that is the proportion being paid under this Bill.
Does the man who has to pay £700 come under this Bill?
I am obviously not making this very clear. Up to £700 it is paid by way of £36 a year on the bill. There is no capital contribution required for the £700; that is paid by a combination of a fixed charge and a special service charge. It is the capital contribution over that which is catered for in the Bill.
Question put and agreed to.
Next Stage?
Provisionally for Tuesday week.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 23rd November, 1975.