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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 7 Dec 1977

Vol. 302 No. 6

Private Members' Business: Ferenka Factory Closure: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Kelly on Tuesday, 6th December 1977:
That Dáil Éireann deplores the negligence on the part of the Government in the developments that led to the closure of the Ferenka factory, with its disastrous consequences for the workforce and for general industrial development.
Debate resumed on the following amendment:
To delete "Government" and substitute "present Government and its predecessor in Office".
—(Dr. Browne.)

Last evening I described the closure of Ferenka as a national disgrace. I deliberately used the word "national" because Irish workers in an Irish plant established under the auspices of the IDA, Irish trade unions and an Irish Government are directly involved.

Whatever degree of responsibility for the closure lies with the ENKA board—and it has been substantial— in my opinion we failed to control and to contain the situation to prevent the loss of 1,400 jobs, of £9 million of taxpayers' money and of damage to our future prospects of industrial development. We are deluding ourselves at all levels if we do not learn bitter lessons from this dispute. Therefore, the truth must be told if we are to learn.

We should keep an objective sense of perspective about the causes and responsibilities for the actual dispute which provided the parent company with a golden opportunity to pull out. We know that unfortunately and tragically some workers in this plant allowed themselves on occassions to be led out on official stoppages. We know that recognised channels to deal with day-to-day disputes, including the recent suspension of six employees, broke down. We know that some individuals persistently favoured unofficial action in dealing with such issues.

Tragically and unfortunately so far as these men allowed themselves to be used, they too have sowed a bitter harvest, and they and thier families must live with the consequences of their action for the rest of their lives. The truth must be told about this. As a rank and file trade unionist and as a member of one of the unions concerned—the ITGWU—and as a former full-time official in that union and with the ICTU, it would be utterly dishonest on my part if I did not make that criticism.

I am also convinced that the plant need not have closed. It is true that the firm was managed from afar with growing and mounting insolvency and with an evident insensitivity in terms of its management. There was also a small group of workers who believed they could do whatever they wished at local level. It is true that in relation to my union the local branch had the greatest of difficulty in obtaining what one would regard as the traditional loyalty of workers in Limerick to a particular union. That is a fact of life; it is the truth.

The Marine Port Union attempted to come into a difficult and ugly situation in what can only be described as a questionable seeking of expansion of membership. As a Labour Party member and as a trade unionist I must be utterly honest about this matter. No matter how one may attempt to justify the strength of feeling on the part of members, in my opinion there is no justification for one union—no matter who it may be —moving in on an unofficial strike situation, enrolling members and attempting to represent them in that situation.

All that is past history but the truth must be told. This Government by their indecision and their reluctance during the period of the dispute to spell out the options as they unfolded contributed as much to the closure of the plant. This motion correctly deals with the contributory negligence of the Government in the closure. It pinpoints the incompetence of the Minister for Labour and the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy in their handling of the situation.

There is one reason why the Government—not merely the two Ministers concerned—stand indicted. The Government have a collective responsibility to advise, direct and encourage individual Minister on the policy line to be adopted in major disputes. The Taoiseach presides over the Cabinet, but it is evident that the Government did not discharge that responsibility at Cabinet level. The policy and hope was one of nervous expectation that if we did nothing everything would work out all right and everyone would ultimately go back to work.

I regret to say that the Minister for Labour must stand indicted. I say this with regret because he is a personal friend of mine. His settlement proposals of 24th and 25th October— issued well after the dispute commenced—were rejected out of hand by the ITGWU and by the Congress, and the FUE did not regard them as remotely contributing towards the prospect of a settlement. We had the understatement of the year when Deputy Mitchell regarded them as being "unusual". Most observers were taken aback by the sheer impracticability of the Minister's so-called flexibility in relation to the proposals. I can excuse the Minister his inexperience, but I cannot excuse a Cabinet that authorised these proposals. I believe that, tragically, they gave hope to those who would fragment trade union organisation inside the job and would disrupt the Congress procedures.

The second reason for the failure of the Minister was his failure to consult with the Industrial Relations Committee of the ICTU in relation to the issues involved. I found it incredible— and I have carried out the most diligent research and discussions with the parties involved—that no consultation took place between the Minister and Congress at formal official level. There may have been a mild unofficial approach at one stage, but there was no actual consultation between the Minister and Congress in relation to this dispute. Needless to remark, there was no consultation prior to the initial terms of settlement. Further comment is unnecessary.

I find it incredible that the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy should come into the Dáil last evening and state:

The proposals on which the two unions recommended their members to return were in substance the same as those put before the unions five weeks earlier by the Minister for Labour.

Why in God's name could they not have been accepted when first put before them? I would ask the Minister if he is not aware that the initial proposals of the Minister for Labour recommended that over a five-month period after resumption of work an officer of the Labour Court would arrange as an interim measure the election of production workers to represent and negotiate with management. Quite incredibly the Minister for Labour also proposed on that occasion that trade union dues should cease to be deducted during the five-month period and that no trade union meetings would be held on the premises or during company time.

These proposals were rejected by the ITGWU and the Congress, and they were regarded by the Limerick Council of Trade Unions as not being conducive to any settlement.

I must confess I was shocked at this analysis of the situation from the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, because the proposals which the Congress finally put forward and which were ultimately accepted by the workers bore no relation whatever to the proposals originally put forward by the Minister for Labour. If I may say so, I would not contrast even in the Cork sense—the Minister for Labour, myself and Deputy M. O'Leary, his predecessor all come from the one city —the manner of the Minister for Labour's intervention in this dispute with the care and attention given by the Minister's predecessor in his interventions in many equally difficult disputes over the past four years. There have been very many substantial criticisms of the former Minister. But I know of no major industrial dispute where he did not bring about successful settlements, even in the most difficult of disputes, because he intervened with care, he consulted unceasingly with the trade unions and with the employers. Indeed I do not know from where the proposals of the Minister emanated, whether it was some recess of the think-tank or manifesto but, if they are any indication of the future industrial relations policy of the Government, God help those of us who may be called on to settle future industrial disputes.

Now we come to the meeting of 4th November between the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy and the two board members of ENKA. At that meeting the second total lack of initiative on the part of the Government was utterly unveiled. The Minister has revealed only under great pressure in this House and under the prompting and disclosure by the Leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Cluskey, that an offer of extended State involvement was sought by ENKA representatives. I stress the date: 4th November. That was long before the closure or the final decision on the part of the company was taken to pack up its bags and get to hell out of Ireland because the Minister for Labour was doing nothing about it. The Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy blew his top when he met ENKA, became irate, and told them that there was no hope in hell of their proposals being accepted. He in no way attempted to negotiate with the ENKA representatives when they put their proposals before him; he simply blew his top and sent out his public relations officer from the GIS to tell the powers in this country that there were hard, tough and difficult words between them. Then he issued a statement saying there would be no further statement from the Government and he said, incredibly, no further statement from ENKA in this regard.

I think we are correct in surmising from that incident and from reports in the newspapers, that the Minister had worked himself into an impossible situation with the ENKA representatives, so much so that, in my opinion, tragically, these representatives went back and field yet another negative report before their parent company board saying that they could not make head nor tail of the situation—the Minister for Labour was not doing anything; the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy did not know the hell what he wanted to do; the Marine Port Union was not likely to do any better than the Transport Union, and the thing was in such a shambles they were finally making a recommendation to their board to pack up and get out. And they used the phrase to the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, which was disclosed by the Minister last evening, of adopting a lower profile of, in effect, getting out, and then the Minister knew that situation.

That pinpoints the clear negligence on the part of the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy. I have rarely seen such abject abdication of responsibility by a Minister of State. I would contrast the inaction of this Government in relation to keeping Ferenka in operation with the flush of expenditure, the sudden interest, for example, of expenditure of £2 million of State moneys in payments to mostly absentee shareholders of a bankrupt bank, the Irish Trust Bank. What a rush Deputy Colley was in to pay out that money to keep a tiny staff already in other employment, to buy off a bankrupt concern in that regard. We should remember that touching concern of the Minister for Finance about that outfit, when we see the double standard in relation to Ferenka, with nothing in terms of involvement and not a word from him.

Here is the party which apparently tore up a proposal of ENKA which was a negotiating document. Those of us who have ever met multinational companies—and I, as a trade union official, have met many of them over the years—know that first documents are no more than negotiating ones. There was no effort made by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy to go back to them and say "Look, that is not on. Meet me again next Monday. I am sorry, we could not possibly wear that; the IDA could not possibly wear it. We could not put it before the Dáil. We would have a situation which would be, quite frankly, impossible for the Government to accept."

Here is a Government which gaily spent £80 million on rates relief for people who have homes and jobs, but who could not, apparently, find a brass farthing for Ferenka. Here is a Government who could spend £20 million on motor tax relief for people who have cars and jobs, but who could not even contemplate expenditure of £500,000 to keep a factory going at least until Christmas when we might be in a position to talk turkey to multinationals in the language they know. They were not impressed by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy nor, unfortuantely, by the Minister for Labour.

Therefore we have a situation in which we must strongly challenge the Minister for Labour to lay the proposals he got from ENKA before the House. The company is no longer in existence, is going out of existence in ten days' time, on the final proceedings in the High Court and so on. We must now ask for the disclosure of these documents to discover what exactly was the situation. Confidentiality will no longer be breached because the company is in liquidation. If the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy is in such a rush to release the internal agreements with Bula, Tara and the devil-knows-what, he should not have much difficulty in releasing the documents in relation to Ferenka.

What are the future prospects of a solution to the outbreak of similar disputes in this country? I do not believe that simply because the Government have made an unholy bags of this situation we should lose our nerve in this critical situation. Damage has been done, but let us not compound it by putting forward bad solutions to avert further disputes of this nature. We should cast from our minds some of the simplistic solutions put forward by some hysterical commentators. We even had the distinguished parliamentary correspondent of the Irish Independent proposing a system of mandatory affiliation to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions—God knows voluntary affiliation is difficult enough to achieve in this democracy. He would even have mandatory cooling-off periods. The Irish Exporters' Association went half-mad. They proposed a banning and sending off to Mountjoy of those who might, on occasion, lose their nerve, their sense of democracy, their sense of working-class solidarity, their sense of trade union affiliation and who might go out on unofficial strike. As we know these solutions can work only in a totalitarian system of industrial relations, in a Gulag society where, frankly, mandatory sanctions cannot be applied. Therefore, I am surprised that those kinds of proposals should be put forward. In the final analysis we must depend on the innate sense of democracy, of decency and loyalty of fellow workers to one another to avoid these kinds of situations; not to be led by the nose by anybody, no matter how extreme may be the situation, to take their decision on a straight ballot, majority decision basis inside trade unions in the traditional sense of all that is best of trade unionism as we know it in this country. Since there are two sides in industry, needless to remark bad management, insensitive management, ineffective management must be eliminated if we are to avoid the provocation of such outbreaks.

It has been suggested by some commentators and apologists for this closure that the factory should never have been set up in the first instance here. I take that as a slight on the workers of Limerick. Deputy Lipper and Deputy John Ryan who represent the vast bulk of those workers regard that as arrant nonsense. I do not believe that the management decision-making structure was so bad that it could not have been remedied ultimately. It could have been if the factory could have been kept open. Admittedly it was very diffused, it was difficult. I saw some reports, including consultant reports, in relation to this company, but I am quite convinced it could still have been kept open.

We hear a lot of nonsense about four-shift systems which were conducive to absenteeism. There was a serious problem of absenteeism in one section of this plant, but it was not universal within the whole of the company. There was no such thing as 25 per cent absenteeism throughout this plant; there was in one particular section where the work processes were very demanding. While these were difficult problems I in no way accept that they were insurmontable. I believe they were soluble with patience, goodwill and understanding on the part of all concerned, particularly a Minister for Labour with understanding and appreciation and the capability of going into that plant and ensuring it was put back on the rails.

There are a number of fundamental questions which must be asked of this Government in regard to the establishment of Ferenka some six years ago when Fianna Fáil were in office. Was this project—and this is a serious question—and its location in that area in the first instance sponsored and favoured by the IDA or was it a decision of the Government to establish the plant in Annacotty? Were the IDA or SFADCO satisfied that the location and the labour catchment were adequate, or was this decided at a Government meeting at the behest of Deputy O'Malley, Minister for Justice, at the time? Was the equipment and technology up to date? Was the equipment modern? Was it of the most modern design even six years ago? The answers to these questions will explain to some degree the outcome of the situation. I would exonerate the IDA in large measure in relation to this dispute. I believe the nightmare Ferenka became could have been avoided had the original decision to establish the plant been taken only after the most careful consideration and study.

Finally, there is the question of the future prospects of reopening this plant. I would wish to see production resume. Quite frankly, I do not see any prospect of the plant being re-opened as a workers' co-operative. Such is the climate of relations and the whole structure of the technology of this particular product and the marketing problem thereof, that I do not see a realistic prospect of a co-operative. In normal circumstances I would favour such a concept, particularly in relation to small industries, but, with a highly integrated product like steel cord, with its technology and markets, the proposal does not seem to me to be realistic. The best proposition at the moment is, before it slides into oblivion in terms of liquidation, that we ask the Government tonight in a positive and constructive sense, that we ask the Minister for Labour and the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, in conjunction with the IDA to ensure that they at least arrange for this plant to be taken over by another manufacturer, perhaps capable of handling steel cord material, and operate it as quickly as possible.

The Deputy has two minutes.

I advance that proposition because the Government must take a decision in this matter in the next week or so if there is to be any prospect of a successful reopening. Otherwise, after two months' stoppage and two weeks' closure some 10 to 15 per cent of the labour force in this plant will no longer be available for one reason or another and the plant cannot therefore be reopened on an effective basis.

There are many lessons to be learned from this dispute. The unions concerned learned lessons, I hope. I believe the IDA have learned substantial lessons in relation to plants of this nature. I hope that in the lifetime of this Dáil in the four years ahead, in the lifetime of both Ministers in their portfolios, a sharp and bitter lesson has been learned from this dispute. As an Opposition, I believe we would have been utterly and flagrantly dishonest had we not put down this motion and said what we have to say directly to the Minister. Much as we hold individual friends in the parliamentary sense in high esteem, we have to be honest with one another. We have to be direct and say that the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, by being too cute by half, by his inaction and by hoping to God that by keeping it all under wraps, if a thing goes wrong, Fianna Fáil will not be blamed because nobody will know anything about what happened but, if a thing goes right, on the other hand, Deputy O'Malley is able to go careering off to Telefís Éireann saying: "I settled the dispute." Last night he thanked Harold O'Sullivan. He did not mention the Congress. He was on radio saying: "I was responsible more or less. What I said landed them back to work." The Minister cannot have an each way bet in an industrial dispute of this kind. Tragically it blew up in his face. Far more tragically it means 1,400 workers are out of work down in Limerick, their jobs gone, no income and their carreer prospects destroyed. Deputy Ryan and Deputy Lipper have to live with this and work in this context. It was no consolation for them to come in here and stand with me in condemning the Government for its inaction in this matter, because in the long run the jobs are gone. Our job now is to ensure that an alternative industry is rapidly put into that plant and that the plant and equipment are used as effectively as possible, and there will be no recurrence of the unhappy events in Limerick over the past few months in the lifetime of this Dáil.

The Deputy's time is up.

Our job it to ensure there will be no recurrence of the disgraceful exhibition of inactivity, ineptitude and incompetence which we saw from a Cabinet that was supposed to do the "divil an' all" when it took over here five months ago.

The Deputy's time is up.

I do not want to make an issue of it, but you, a Cheann Comhairle, did allocate 27 minutes to Deputy Barry Desmond. Because of the failure of the Government to provide a quorum we did not start the discussion until four minutes after seven. Why we should forfeit four minutes for the Government's failure I fail to understand.

I do not think it was four minutes.

I will not make an issue of it on this occasion.

Will the debate be extended by that amount?

No. I did not know it was four minutes late.

I timed it.

The debate was late, and I would be grateful if the Chair would confirm that we will have four minutes extra at the end.

Why were you, sir, not present in the House at seven o'clock? Could I have an explanation for that?

A Cheann Comhairle, we are wasting time. Let us get on with the job.

The division must be taken at 8.30 p.m.

This does put the Opposition at a disadvantage if the Government can by not starting the debate or the Ceann Comhairle by being late deprive the Opposition of time.

There is more time being wasted now than there was in the beginning.

May I remind the Minister the Deputy replying to the debate will be called at 8.15 p.m.

I have been dismayed to find speaker after speaker on the opposite side last night and tonight seeing fit to try to make political capital and score political points from the tragedy that is Ferenka. I would remind them that the points they seek to score are points at the expense of the former workers of Ferenka, their wives and families, who would, I am sure, have expected something more constructive to emerge from this debate. I have listened to a recitation of criticisms of the Government and its Ministers for their action or lack of action in regard to the industrial relations aspect of the Ferenka tragedy. I would point out to them that labour-management relations in this plant were most unsatisfactory right from its establishment in 1972 and continued to be so during the term of office of the previous Government and were well known to the previous Government. Some of those making these criticisms displayed an abysmal lack of knowledge of industrial relations here. I would remind them that we have here a system of free collective bargaining. I would remind them also that in accordance with that system the primary responsibility for the settlement of disputes rests with the employers and their workers and their representative organisation. I would also remind them that the Government has provided procedures and institutions for the resolution of disputes in situations where the parties themselves cannot reach agreement. An outsider listening to this debate could be forgiven for thinking that the function of the Government or, indeed, of the Minister for Labour, is to settle disputes. I want to ask a question. Who settles disputes?

The Minister does not. What is the answer?

I repeat. Who settles disputes? Disputes are settled by the parties involved by their goodwill, co-operation and participation, and any function, any mediation, is only a vehicle to that solution and can only succeed if that goodwill, co-operation and participation are present. I would ask Deputies opposite whether they want to see greater State involvement in the area of industrial relations through legislation or otherwise. If I were to seek greater powers in the industrial relations area the Deputies opposite would express reservations about any attempts to increase the degree of State intervention in our system of free collective bargaining.

I want to put on the record of this House that in the area of industrial relations my main aim during my tenure of office will be to strengthen and improve where necessary the institutions and procedure governing our system of free collective bargaining. For example, let us consider the Labour Court. When I took up office a few short months before the unfortunate Ferenka situation developed, there was completely inadequate staffing in the Labour Court. The proof of this, as I am sure many Members have seen, is that up to recently there was a footnote on Labour Court recommendations explaining that position. Regarding my own role and my functions in relation to dispute situations, I intend to intervene only in those situations where there is a public interest dimension, where there are exceptional circumstances or where it becomes clear that the institutions set up by this House to settle disputes have failed to secure a settlement. My firm view is that frequent interventions at Ministerial level would only add another rung to the negotiating ladder and would tend to diminish the status and effectiveness of the institutions to which I have referred.

I intervened in the Ferenka dispute immediately it became clear to me that an impasse had been reached because of the number of jobs involved and also because of the existence of exceptional aggravating circumstances. It was clear to me on the 21st of October that an impasse had been reached. It was also reported to me that a particular development, which in my judgment would have caused serious disruption of our general industrial scene, was about to take place. A third factor in my decision to intervene was my concern for the situation in which 1,400 people would be out of work.

One is entitled to ask why did not the parties concerned avail of the conciliation services of the Labour Court, which were available at all times. The Labour Court was ready to offer assistance and expert advice to the parties involved since the commencement of the dispute. Why did not they see fit to use these services? I would ask why they did not make contact with the officer of the Labour Court who was made specially available to help them to settle their problems and who spent some considerable time in Limerick waiting to be approached. He waited in vain. One is prompted to ask: Did a desire for a settlement exist at that time? I should like to stress that the position of the Labour Court and its services in this matter was not merely a passive one. Several overtures were made over the weeks, but the offers of help were not taken up. It should be noted that because of the history of Ferenka their industrial relations problems were well known to the Labour Court and the individual officers of the court. Officers of the court were known personally to the management personnel and to the trade union representatives because of that history.

I intervened immediately an impasse had been reached and when it became clear to me that the parties were unwilling to use the recognised institutions. I put forward settlement proposals to the company and to the two trade unions involved on Friday, 21st October. Criticism has been made of them, and I am not saying that they were the ideal answer to the problem, but I want to make it very clear to this House that an unusual situation had developed, a situation which in my opinion had three basic ingredients. One was a return to work, the second was a truce between the two unions during which the difficulties of representation could be sorted out, and the third was an arrangement to determine the issue of the suspended shop steward. These were the three basic problems. These proposals were put forward in no way to fragment the trade union movement. I have always supported the official trade union movement and I will continue to do so. The proposals were designed to overcome the impasse that had been reached. They may have been unusual but certainly they were not silly, as has been said by a Member of this House.

When they were initially rejected I made it known publicly and to the parties concerned that the proposals were flexible and negotiable and that any suggestions or ideas put forward by them in return for the proposals would be considered by me. I still say that the formula was there to enable progress to be made. I put forward settlement proposals on the 21st October when I saw the impasse. These proposals were based on an immediate resumption of work and provided for interim arrangements under which the industrial relations problems at the plant might be sorted out. During protracted discussions on these proposals with all parties during the period up to 26th October, I explained that they were flexible and could be amended. Regrettably, these proposals were not acceptable to all the parties.

As no progress was made arising from my discussions, I intervened again on 27th October when I put forward revised proposals, basically designed to withdraw the more objectionable aspects of the earlier ones. They were again aimed at securing a resumption of work and also provided for a cooling off period during which I proposed that the Labour Court would examine the causes of discontent in the factory and matters relating to trade union representation. Again I failed to get acceptance.

Regarding the question of closure which has been referred to many times, I should like to tell the House that on the occasion of my first meeting with the Limerick management I asked them whether there were any factors other than the stoppage due to the strike which would threaten the future of the factory in Limerick. They immediately assured me that there were no other factors in the situation, and mentioned that the demand for the company's product was buoyant.

What date was that?

I think it was the 21st of October, approximately. When, during the discussions with the parties concerned, the possibility of closure was mentioned—the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy last night quoted a statement which he made in the last weekend in October spelling this out—the reaction I got was something like this: first, they did not believe it; second, they suggested that there was an element of duress in mentioning it, and thirdly they suggested that if the factory closed it would be for reasons other than industrial relations.

I want to answer an allegation made by Deputy Kelly here last night and, I understand, repeated on radio today, to the effect that one of the unions involved had made a suggestion to which I did not respond. This was a detail of the overall settlement which at that time had basically been rejected by other parties, and because of that there was no point in pursuing that aspect further at that time. I repeat that I then offered to consider any alternative proposals which the parties might wish to put forward, and I offered to provide clarification, if necessary, of any points of doubt in relation to my proposal. I indicated my willingness, despite many pressing engagements, to remain in my office over the weekend of 29th-30th October for this purpose, and again the offer was not taken up.

Much play was made by Deputy Kelly last night and even allegations were made that I had resigned or was gone out of the country, and I want to answer that. This House set up institutions to deal with industrial relations, essentially the Labour Court and its services, and through those functions and institutions a Minister is able to keep in touch with the situation in any dispute. Because it follows logically on what Deputy Kelly was saying last night, it would appear that in his mind a Minister should always be personlly involved in every dispute. The majority of Members of the House know that is not a sensible practice; they know that the intervention preferable to all parties is that of the responsible institutions of the State that have served industry and workers well. I repeat that I had made arrangements with those institutions to be kept informed daily of the situation and, in addition, even when I was in my constituency at the weekend.

When I say that proposals were turned down by the unions I want to make it clear that the unions went through the consultation process with their members and that the actions were endorsed by them. As I said earlier, in dispute settling there must exist a desire to co-operate, to participate, and a goodwill presence that will give the opportunity to all concerned to reach a settlement. Again, I emphasise that I did not, as has been alleged, remove myself from the scene at that stage or at any other time. Deputies will recall that the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy met representatives of the parent company the following week. We discussed together and at Cabinet level the situation arising from that meeting. A few days later, in the evening of the date mentioned last night, 8th November, I was informed that efforts were being made to arrange direct talks between some of the parties concerned. In the circumstances I could not prejudice the outcome of these talks by attempting further intervention at that time nor would intervention be likely to meet with acceptance. But I may now say that I appreciate and commend the ICTU and the FUE who initiated those talks and those proposals which, as we know, a number of weeks later, ended again in failure, unfortunately.

During that period when there was hope for a basis for a form of settlement, the institutions of the Department were keeping closely in touch with the progress of those talks. On the second last weekend of the Ferenka saga, the terms were turned down.

I have already stated publicly that I do not intend to apportion blame among the parties involved in this protracted dispute at Ferenka, and I do not propose to do so now. I agree with Deputy Desmond that there are lessons to be learned from all that has happened in this case. I am satisfied that the company must shoulder some responsibility for some injudicious actions on their side. Equally, the trade unions by their adoption of inflexible attitudes must also take some share of the blame——

And the Government.

——but whether it be institutions of State or whether it be Ministerial intervention, you can take a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink.

It is saddening for me that it was only when the closure of the factory was imminent the message finally got home and that proposals were accepted, proposals which, I repeat, did not differ substantially from those I had put forward many weeks earlier. They covered the same difficult problems: they were aimed at removing difficulties from the scene in an effort to get work resumed, in an effort to get a temporary arrangement to have difficulties ironed out over a period. It is unfortunate that one has to take so much time countering mischievous and misleading statements or allegations made here about the Government's handling of the situation, but it was necessary to put the records straight.

Deputy Desmond said that a statement was made to the effect that the factory should never have been set up in that area. I do not agree with that. I support what he said, but to my knowledge no member of the Government or of an institution of the State made that statement—that a factory should never have been set up there. I am not saying that the Deputy did suggest it was; he did say a statement had been made to that effect, but I do not support that statement because I believe, and I have repeatedly said, that in the Ferenka situation there were serious difficulties. It did get considerable publicity, but, on the other hand, the vast majority of all Irish workers and Irish industry move smoothly on day by day. That does not mean that there are not serious lessons for all of us to be learned here, and that arrangements should not be made to avoid any such development in the future. The Deputy referred to previous Ministerial intervention always being successful. I do not want to go into details, but that statement is not correct either. He referred to interventions by my predecessor which I do not want to go into as that is not the purpose of my speaking here tonight.

One may say, what of the future? It is important that I should assure the House that without prejudice to any future development within that company or within that complex I immediately in my Department ensured that the various institutions of the Department direct their attention to the serious situation which developed there temporary, permanent or otherwise. The National Manpower Service have already made special arrangements since early last week for the registration, first of all, of any job seekers from the firm and, furthermore, to assist them to get employment. The National Manpower Service served Ferenka well during their period in operation and provided about 1,000 placements within the company.

Allegations were made about other functions of the Department. I can assure the House that during my time as Minister all relevant legislation, all relevant requirements, will be examined, because there are unusual aspects of this closure which may or may not affect entitlement or otherwise. The protection of employment and the minimum notices were not observed. The papers in the case have been referred to the legal people for interpretation and advice as to what might be the correct approach. It is important to say that in the House so that the position should be clear.

In addition to giving the direction to the National Manpower Service I requested AnCO to look at the apprentice situation immediately. They have done this effectively where apprentices are concerned for the time being. They arranged last Monday a meeting of those people. Some of them are already in off the job training courses and will be retained there, and others are being placed by AnCO on continuing courses. Both they and the National Manpower Service will be looking after them. That is without prejudice to the company or the complex. That is immediate action on a tragic situation which has arisen for the city of Limerick, the surrounding area and the country. I want to endorse again that as far as the Government are concerned and as far ts the Ministers are concerned every possible step was taken, every sensible step was taken and nothing was concealed from anybody. Those people who allege such things are deliberately mischievous or deliberately misleading people into believing that a situation is different.

It is with a great deal of sadness that I rise to speak tonight.

Before I go on to the notes I have prepared I want to raise, arising from the Minister's speech, the allegation that this party and this side of the House are trying to score political points. The Minister had the good grace, when I questioned him in the House on 9th and 10th November, to thank me for the responsible part I played and for the welcome and constructive comments I made on his proposal. It is very sad that the Minister should try to get away with that when it is on the record of the House.

I urge, even at this very late stage, that some action be taken by the Government to save those jobs or to replace them. That was the purpose of the question put down by the Leader of the Opposition, other Deputies and me last Tuesday. When the Leader of the Opposition suggested the idea of a workers' co-operative the Taoiseach promised instant attention to this matter. No contact was made with the Ferenka company by 5.30 p.m. last Friday.

I made a statement on 28th November sympathising with the workers and their families who received such a blow. I want most profoundly to repeat the sympathy of my party and my own sympathy with the families affected this Christmastime. On the 19th October the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy quoted what he called his prophetic statement. Before he made any statement I issued a statement on 19th October after I was refused, for most unusual reasons, permission to raise the Ferenka question in the House. In my statement I pointed out "that the Industrial Relations Acts, 1946 and 1969 gave both the Minister and the Labour Court specific power to take the initiatives in disputes of an inflexible nature, even if the disputes are between groups of workers", I said in that statement:

There are only two possible outcomes to this dispute, either a settlement or, as stated yesterday by the parent company, or closure. The danger is that a delayed settlement could come too late to prevent closure. With 1,400 direct jobs and many more ancillary jobs at stake together with the likely effect on the future of foreign investment it is now imperative that the Minister waive his declared intention of not involving himself in industrial disputes.

Action followed on that statement, as the Minister has told the House.

Two days later on 21st October the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy made his first statment about the danger of closure. That was the date on the paper produced by the Department of Labour which has been called the Minister's intervention. The details of that intervention, funnily enough, were not reported in the newspapers until Tuesday 25th October, four days later. I welcomed that intervention. I said:

The unusual nature of the Minister's suggestions, therefore, should not call them to be ruled out without careful consideration by the parties involved. I note the Minister's willingness to amend the suggestions if necessary to facilitate agreement.

The Minister on the following day met the two unions involved separately. He was told that certain parts of the proposals were not acceptable. Amendments were suggested and he met the two unions again separately on October 28. It will be noted that the Minister's first intervention was on October 21st and that the date of his last meeting with the unions was, therefore, one week later. That was the abject extent of the involvement of the Minister for Labour in this dispute. Of the 30 minutes allotted to him tonight he spent 20 trying to cover up for a situation in which nothing was done by him or by his Department again until November 24th. That was after Deputy Kelly had raised by way of a special notice question the threatened Ferenka closure. When pressed the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy said that he understood a request had been made for a conciliation officer. On being asked when, he replied "today".

Yesterday the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy said that proposals almost similar to those of the Minister for Labour "only different wording" were put forward by the Vice President of the ICTU and could be accepted four weeks later by the unions, but that was too late. The similarity of the proposals is no surprise since they emanated from the same source, the FUE, who put the original proposals to the Minister for Labour on October 21 and who asked if he might put them forward as being his own proposals. This highlights the laziness and the ineptitude of the Minister for Labour and makes it clear that no proposals were drawn up by him.

If the question were only one of "different wording", why could the Minister not have worked on the proposals in order to arrive at the right form of wording and, thereby, to endeavour to initiate direct talks between the unions as I had urged him to do on November 9 and 10? At least, he should have provided for some form of conciliation. Is it not astonishing that Mr. Gene Fitzgerald, so virulent and strident in opposition——

The Minister for Labour.

—— be so lazy, so inexperienced and so inept? I think not. The facts that are emerging indicate that he was both restrained and constrained by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy.

The last intervention of the Minister for Labour was on October 28, the Friday of the holiday weekend. The next working day was Tuesday, November 1st, and on Wednesday, a meeting was announced for the next day between the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy and ENKA directors. It was at that meeting that the future of the 1,400 workers was settled. Deputy O'Malley has the honour to represent in this House the constituency of East Limerick. It is both sad and ironic that 1,400 families in his constituency at this Christmas time have had their future squandered by Mr. O'Malley's abrasive and biting personality.

The Minister, please.

He has bitten the hand that fed him in Limerick. It was his abrasiveness that resulted in the abortive meeting with ENKA on November 4. It would appear that he insulted and berated the directors of the company and rendered them breathless, thereby ruling out any possibility of negotiating.

The meeting was hardly abortive. It lasted for a long time.

I shall quote now from the newspapers of the next day. The Irish Press, the Minister's paper, had this to say:

The meeting, about which the ENKA representatives maintained a strict silence was, I heard, a blunt and sometimes heated exchange of views in which the ENKA delegates insisted that the factory must close down if the dispute which has halted production is prolonged.

Will the Deputy give the date of the paper, please, for the record?

I have said it was the day after the meeting. It was the issue of November 5 and the report was from a Government spokesman. The Cork Examiner of the same date had this to say:—

It is understood that yesterday's meeting was tough, with the Minister emphasising that the Ferenka group had certain managerial responsibilities.

Is the Deputy suggesting that is not so?

The report continued:

No further talks have been arranged between the Government and the ENKA board, though the Government would be willing to resume discussions if necessary.

The Irish Independent of the same date had this to say:

This was the blunt message from the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, Mr. O'Malley, when yesterday he met two senior members of the board of the parent ENKA company....

.... In a tough-talking session, he went back over the Ferenka performance in the last five years...

Finally, The Irish Times of the same day had the following to say:

The meeting, held at the request of ENKA, was reported to be "tough and blunt".

However, reliable sources indicated last night that the possibility of Ferenka pulling out of Limerick, with the consequent loss of 1,400 jobs, still loomed large following yesterday's meeting.

I thought we were supporting that.

The House will recall that on November 8th I raised with the Taoiseach the question of that meeting. The Taoiseach said that in relation to the allegation of Deputy O'Malley's washing his hands of the affair, we should not believe all we read in the newspapers. The industrial correspondent of The Irish Times had this to say, as reported in the November 15th issue of that paper:

Now here's mind test for you:

Where do you think the papers got hold of the information that Dessie O'Malley was playing Big John Wayne with the ENKA management, since no reporters were actually present at the meeting?

He fell off the horse.

Is the Deputy inferring that I was wrong to criticise their industrial relations during the five-year period?

Deputy Mitchell, without interruptions from any side.

Last week the Taoiseach told the Dáil that within the offer that emerged from this meeting there were certain unacceptable terms.

However, no attempt was made by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy to negotiate a modification of these terms or to put forward alternative proposals. Instead, speaking on a radio programme on November 29th one of the directors, Mr. Hutter, said that the "Minister in response to the company's offer excluded this possibility absolutely". Another director said also in a radio interview on November 24th that "the Irish Government had no solution to propose".

I should have liked more time in which to expose the situation at Ferenka. As I have indicated by way of the consistent newspaper reports the meeting was one at which Deputy O'Malley not only lost his head but lost 1,400 jobs. The telegram referred to in this House by Deputy Kelly yesterday substantiates these reports. That telegram did not blame industrial relations but the Minister. So bad were relationships after that meeting that the Minister for Labour may have been compromised regarding any further initiative. Not only that, but it was thought that the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy and the board of ENKA could never speak together again. A long cooling off period was required. It took three weeks. Three weeks later they met again in very strained circumstances. The plant was gone and with it 1,400 jobs. This has been the cost of the mistake made by the Government. Limerick has been ill-served by its TD.

It is small consolation to the people of Limerick that at the next election they will have it in their power to wreak retribution. We are not calling on the Minister for Labour to resign and we are not even calling on the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy to resign—not yet, that is. We want an independent public inquiry to ascertain all the facts—the whole facts and nothing but the facts. It has been suggested that this will be a case of "we will give them a fair trial and then hang them". They will hang themselves as they have 1,400 families in Limerick this week.

I will concede my right to reply to Deputy O'Donnell.

As the Deputy who has had for 16 years the honour and the privilege to represent the constituency in which this unfortunate disaster has occurred, I regret the sad circumstances which have warranted this debate. I totally reject the implication by certain spokesmen from the Government over the past 24 hours that this debate was an attempt to play petty party politics with this issue. I would remind the House that right through this sorry tale over the past two months we on this side of the House and our colleagues in the Labour Party behaved honourably and responsibly. We acceded to the appeal by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Labour to refrain from making any public comments which might in any way exacerbate what we were assured were delicate negotiations proceeding at that time. It is only right and proper that a major issue, which could be termed the worst economic disaster and the worst industrial disaster in the history of this House, should be debated in this Parliament objectively, in an endeavour to ascertain what went wrong and why it happened. We must remember that in a major issue of this kind the buck stops on those benches over there. This issue has been written about and has been debated in every household throughout the country and has been debated abroad. It is only right that we should discuss it. I regret that this major industrial complex is now closed. Many of the 1,400 are friends, relatives, constituents and supporters of mine. I am sure that everybody in the Limerick region and everybody throughout the country will endorse my appeal to the Government to get this mess cleaned up and to get these 1,400 people back to work immediately. This is the challenge now facing the Government. This is the type of challenge that the Government were elected to deal with. We want to get this factory re-opened. With the due deliberation, having carefully considered the events that led up to the closure, I say that this factory can be reopened; a formula can be found and must be found which will ensure that these people will get back to work as quickly as possible.

The debate we have had last evening and this evening, particularly the contributions by the two Ministers who contributed to the debate on behalf of the Government and the extraordinarly petulant and childish remarks of the Taoiseach at the opening of the Dáil this morning, serve to demonstrate in a very frightening fashion the appallingly inept manner in which the Government have dealt with this serious issue. The story of Ferenka is probably one of the most tragic episodes in the industrial history of this nation. It is tragic because this great industrial complex is now closed, but it is infinitely more tragic because this closure could have been averted if appropriate and feasible action had been taken in time by the Government.

In the whole debate on this issue over the recent weeks the important concept of Government responsibility, of Government intervention in national issues of this kind, has been missing. I have found it amusing, having had the privilege to sit on those benches for over four years, to hear this idea of non-responsibility and non-intervention by a Government, in issues of this kind, being put forward by the two Minister opposite. If anything characterised the Fianna Fáil period in opposition from 1973 to 1977, if there was one thing more than any other which was to the forefront of their strategy both inside the House and outside, it was the principle of blaming the then Government for every industrial closure and for every industrial problem and of calling for intervention when disputes arose.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

The Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy will have to admit that nowhere more than in our constituency and city of Limerick was this so clearly demonstrated. Every problem that arose, every time a factory had redundancies because of the world economic crisis, there were calls from Fianna Fáil Deputies for Government intervention. They blamed the Government, and they blamed Deputy O'Donnell. I have taken the trouble to check back the files of the Limerick Leader over those four years, and week after week, month after month, and I have noted that if a factory closed it was a case of blaming the Government but particularly of blaming Deputy O'Donnell. Therefore the Government now, elected with the largest majority in the history of this State, have in the Cabinet two Ministers with specific responsibility, one in the light of industrial development and the other in the light of industrial relations. I cannot accept, and nobody is so naive as to accept, that Pontius Pilate attitude of the Government in relation to this issue.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

In my 16 years in this House I have never heard a more ludicrous suggestion than the attempt to attribute the blame for the Ferenka disaster to us in Opposition. It is crazy and it is not on. It is normal practice and a responsibility of Government to face up to challenges of this kind. Having established the fact that the Government do intervene, the question now can be asked, when and how could the Government have intervened? The fatal date was 4th November. The writing was clearly on the wall on that day. That was the day on which the offer was made by the parent company to the Government via the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, an offer which he rejected absolutely and completely.

That is not true.

I have only a few minutes left. That was the fatal day; that was the time the action should have been taken. I agree with Deputy Barry Desmond in his opening remarks that it is a question of Cabinet responsibility. I do not believe in personal attacks. This issue was discussed by the Cabinet. The door was open at that stage for counter-offers, for meaningful negotiations between the Government and the parent company with a view to finding a formula which would ensure that this plant could be re-opened and that we could get on with the job. All the information available indicates that if the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy and the Government had pursued these negotiations a meaningful and suitable formula could have been found.

We were proposing holding those negotiations.

At that stage the writing was on the wall. On the 4th November it would have been a case of the Government pulling out all the stops, with the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, the Minister for Labour or the Taoiseach himself using all the resources at their disposal to secure a formula involving the Government, the parent company and the Ferenka workers which could have ensured that that plant would have remained in production. This is where the real failure of the Government is clearly demonstrated. In relation to the reopening of the factory and to the proposal of the Leader of my party, Deputy FitzGerald, when he put forward a concept of a workers' co-operative, I am convinced that there was an exciting challenge and an ideal opportunity presented to the Government on 4th November to devise a unique formula, involving the workers by way of co-operative, the Government and the parent Ferenka company, which would have ensured that production in this plant could have continued.

I regret to have to say that we are fully justified in tabling this motion. Having listened to the contributions, particularly by the two Ministers, we have no reason in the world, and no reason has been given to us, to exonerate the Government in any way from their part of the blame for the closure of this factory. There is no use in the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy or the Minister for Labour making passionate appeals here, throwing in red herrings and introducing extraneous issues which have no direct relevance to the major issue, which is the disaster located in Annacotty in the County of Limerick. Finally, I cannot understand why the Government did not more vigorously pursue the possibility of saving this plant on 4th November. There was reasons why the present Government should have made a very special effort in this case.

Questions have been asked on a number of occasions in the news media and otherwise about the circumstances under which this plant was located in Annacotty. I and everybody else in the constituency of East Limerick can tell the House that Ferenka was located in Annacotty as the result of a deliberate decision by the then Government in which the present Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy was Minister for Justice. They took credit for it, there is no doubt about that. The size of the industry, the fact that it was an almost exclusively male employment industry, the massive State investment in it, the 1,400 jobs, and the frightening economic and social consequences of the closure, all add up to a case where the Government should have pulled out all the stops. They did not do so, and they stand condemned and charged with negligence by this House.

Amendment put and declared lost.

Votáil.

Will those who are demanding a Division please rise in their places?

Deputy Dr. Browne rose.

You should have put that point before you called the vote?

In accordance with Standing Order No. 59 the Deputy's name will be recorded in the Dáil proceedings as dissenting.

Amendment put and declared lost.
Motion put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 48; Níl, 69.

  • Barry, Peter.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Boland, John.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Joan.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Cosgrave, Michael J.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • D'Arcy, Michael J.
  • Deasy, Martin A.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Donegan, Patrick S.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan-Monaghan).
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Gilhawley, Eugene.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Kerrigan, Pat.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • Lipper, Mick.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Mannion, John M.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Timmins, Godfey.
  • Tully, James.

Níl

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Briscoe, Den.
  • Brosnan, Seán.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Farrell, Joe.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzsimons, James N.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Fox, Christopher J.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Dennis.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gibbons, Jim.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Herbert, Michael.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Keegan, Seán.
  • Killeen, Tim.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Loughnane, William.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Calleary,Seán.
  • Cogan, Barry.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Gerard.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Crinion, Brendan.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Murphy, Ciarán P.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy C.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Woods, Michael J.
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Creed and B. Desmond; Níl, Deputies P Lalor and Briscoe.
Motion declared lost.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.50 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. Thursday, 8th December, 1977.
Barr
Roinn