asked the Minister for Justice if he will introduce legislation to prohibit the sale of alcohol to people under the age of 18 in an effort to stem the increase in under-age drinking.
5.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Intoxicating Liquor Laws.
4.
asked the Minister for Justice if he will consider the repeal of section 11 of the Intoxicating Liquor (General) Act, 1924.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 5 together.
The Intoxicating Liquor (General) Act, 1924, prohibits, in general, the sale of intoxicating liquor for consumption "on" or "off" licensed premises to persons under the age of 18 years.
Section 11 of the Act prohibits the sale of intoxicating liquor in "off" licences to persons under the age of 18 but subsection (4) allows the sale or delivery of intoxicating liquor in a corked and sealed vessel containing not less than one reputed pint to a person over the age of 15 years. I have no evidence that this particular exception is a significant factor in the social problem of under-age drinking or that, if the exception were removed or modified, any young people who may now avail themselves of the provision could not easily find other ways of getting drink. On the other hand, the provision seems to serve no good purpose and if the Intoxicating Liquor Acts were being amended I would seriously consider proposing its repeal.
It is my belief that the problem of drinking by young persons is a social one related to the drinking habits of the community generally. Legislative changes or police action can at best have a marginal effect in dealing with this problem. The co-operation of the community is essential in bringing to the notice of the Garda information concerning those who may be deliberately selling intoxicating liquor to underage persons.
I take it from the Minister's reply that he accepts there is a growing problem in this area. May I take it he has no ideas in mind for any legislative changes in order to cope with this problem?
In answer to similar questions from the Deputy some time ago I told him that the matter was under active review at the moment. This is an aspect that merits consideration. In my reply to Deputy Andrews I said that it appears the provision in the Act does not serve any useful purpose and it is a likely provision that could be considered for repeal in the event of legislation being brought before the House.
May I take it that the Minister has in mind introducing some changes in legislation when the review is completed?
Let me put it like this. I have a very open mind on the matter. If changes are necessary they will be made. The provision will be considered for repeal if changes are being made.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Did I understand the Minister to say that he does not think that the supply of intoxicating liquor in sealed bottles to people between the ages of 15 and 18 years facilitates drinking by people in that age group? Surely the Minister must be aware that this is the group abusing——
Is the Deputy asking a question?
(Cavan-Monaghan): The people in this age group are creating a problem. They are becoming addicted to cider. Indeed, the Minister must be aware that it is not so very long ago since there was a serious incident in this city and that the belief is that those who were involved had been drinking cider.
This is a long statement.
(Cavan-Monaghan): Does the Minister not think that if he were to prohibit, as a matter of urgency, the supply of intoxicating liquor to people between the ages of 15 and 18 it would improve the position?
In fairness to myself, the Deputy probably misunderstood what I said. I will repeat what I said, that is, that I have no evidence that this is happening. The Deputy will remember I said that the help of the people at large would be welcomed very much by the Garda in helping them to nail down anybody who might be selling drink to young people or encouraging drink amongst young people.
(Cavan-Monaghan): If the Minister has been reading the newspapers he will know it is a matter of common knowledge that people in the 15 to 18 age group are the people who are buying bottles of cider and other drink of this type and are abusing it.
Deputy Quinn, for a supplementary question.
Did I understand the Minister to say that he would seek the co-operation of people to prevent the sale of liquor to people under the legal age? If that is the case, perhaps the Minister might consider asking RTE to change, if not abolish, their advertisements aimed directly at the category of people we are talking about?
The Deputy is moving on to new ground now and I think we shall move on to the next question. This could entail endless supplementaries.
As I understand it, the provisions of section 11 referred to in the question actually permit the sale, at an off-licence, to people over the age of 15. Would the Minister not consider that that age limit should be increased?
I said in my original reply to Deputy Andrews' question that this was something that would have to be considered, that I would be thinking about repealing it in the event of legislation coming before the House. Might I further say that I have read the same newspapers as Deputy Fitzpatrick of Cavan-Monaghan. I spoke recently to a person who was quoted at length in one of these newspapers as saying that drink was being sold to people under 18 and that this drink was being consumed on off-licence premises. I asked if there was any proof available—I met the gentleman concerned in an informal way—and he did not have any proof. I would love to have proof, and the guards would love to have proof, because this is an area in which we would all like to be helpful and in which we have a grave responsibility to be helpful. I cannot comment on the advertisements on RTE; I shall leave that to my colleague, the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs.
(Cavan-Monaghan): The suggestion is that they are buying drink on these premises, taking it away and drinking it elsewhere.
And doing so legally.