asked the Minister for Education if he is aware that according to the 1974 Prisons' Report 89.9 per cent of the juveniles in St. Patrick's Institution, Dublin, have a reading age of 12 or under; and the action that has been taken to remedy this situation.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Prisons' Report.
19.
I have seen the report in question. In St. Patrick's Institution there is, of course, special provision for the educational needs of the young people who are detained there.
The Minister of State will appreciate that that is a very insubstantial reply. What is the pupil-teacher ratio in relation to the attempt to help these youngsters when they leave with the stigma of St. Patrick's on them and get back into society? This under 12 allegation is dreadful.
The Deputy will accept that one always assumes there will be some supplementaries. I am very happy to give the Deputy an answer now. I am happy to say that, as a very recent development, we have in St. Patrick's a total of 13 teachers, two of whom are remedial teachers. The education scheme there is in the hands of a person whom I regard as a top educationist, Mr. Edmund Burke, Principal of Cabra Vocational School, and we also enjoy the services of a speech therapist from the Eastern Health Board. At long last recognition of the special problems in St. Patrick's Institution has come and efforts have been made to remedy the unsatisfactory position which obtained certainly when I was a member of the visiting committee some ten years ago.
Arising out of the Minister's excellent and most welcome information, could I ask him whether the problem of teaching ceasing during the summer vacation will arise?
That is a separate question.
It is an important and relevant one. The intensity of education for this kind of child is obviously much higher than for other children. Has that matter been dealt with?
I do not doubt the importance, but it is a separate question.
If the Ceann Comhairle will permit me to answer that question——
If the Minister wishes to reply, I hope he will make it brief.
——I might say there are special problems in respect of St. Patrick's in that some of the students are there for only very short duration, maybe three, four, five or six months. To establish a timetable for them is not easy. The qualified teachers there are members of their associations and are entitled to certain leave. There are problems which have to be negotiated before the ideal situation which the Deputy would wish for can be reached.
The beginning of this question refers to 1974. Can the Minister of State tell us whether there is any more recent information available to him supplementarily about the present level of the children in this institution and whether the situation is better than in 1974, the same or worse?
My desire was to relate to the present. I am not saying that there were 11 teachers and two remedial teachers in 1974. I am talking of the present position in St. Patrick's.
My supplementary question was not about the number of teachers but about the educational level of the children, whether it is better or worse than it was in 1974.
I am happy to report that in the matter of reading and numeracy a report which has come to hand suggests that in St. Patrick's school, as we call it, as in other national schools, the standard has risen.
I ask the permission of the Ceann Comhairle to extend this question a little. The Minister is aware that the situation in regard to leaving is serious for those pupils, and Deputy Browne has pointed out the difficulty for lads leaving these schools with the stigma of being in St. Patrick's. Has the Minister some information in his brief regarding job opportunities and employment prospects? Has he any statistics on this?
That is a separate question.
I am seeking information on that.
Could I ask the Minister how far the policy, which I understand the Department are proposing to pursue, of trying to get a co-ordinated educational policy for these institutions has progressed? The problems which have been mentioned are still very real.
The Department do not consider that the situation existing is ideal and they are constantly concerned that the service being provided in St. Patrick's and in other institutions be improved.
Does the Minister agree that about 70 per cent of the pupils who leave St. Patrick's prison go back there again?
I have not got figures on that.
If the Minister checks on that he will find that it is right.