asked the Minister for Economic Planning and Development if he has given consideration to the latest figures for net passenger movement with a rise in emigration in the latter months of 1977; and if any forecasts available to him indicate a rise in the rate of emigration in 1978 and 1979.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Level of Emigration.
7.
The latest figures for net passenger movement by sea and air suggest that net emigration may have increased in 1977 compared with 1976. It is hoped that the results of the 1977 EEC Labour Force Survey may help to identify the extent to which the increase in the net outward passenger movement represents an actual increase in net emigration.
I have no forecasts of the likely level of net emigration in 1978 and 1979.
Does the Minister anticipate that the limited census proposed for 1979 will give him accurate answers to the questions which he has implied in his answer?
The limited census will give a clearer indication of the extent, if any, of emigration. From the figures of passenger movement for which calculations can be made without a census, there seems to be such a tendency.
I do not want to take the Minister by surprise, but I would ask him if he will accept from me that the Minister for Economic Planning and Development told the House last week that the census would give an indication of emigration in the periods we are talking about. I want to know if the Minister has the information there, what feature about the census will reveal anything except the crude or gross difference between the 1979 figure and the figure which resulted from the 1971 census? In other words, will there be anything in it which will give an indication of trends in the intervening eight years?
That is a separate question. The Minister may not have the information.
I agree but this information may be in the Minister's brief.
The Deputy said the intervening eight years. Is he asking if an indication will be given for each of those years by this census?
I do not want to press the Minister. I accept this is a bit off the point of this question. What I am trying to discover is whether this census, which will take place in about one year's time, will contain anything which will give any indication about emigration other than a crude comparison of the total number of people who should be here in 1979 as compared with those who were here in 1971. It is the trends in the meanwhile we are talking about.
As I understand it, the limited census will give a fairly accurate indication of the emigration trends between the 1971 census figures and whatever emerges from the proposed limited census to be taken next year.
Yes, it will give an overall result for the outcome of those eight years but it will not tell us what has been happening this year and in the year ahead.
How could it?
That was what the Minister for Economic Planning and Development thinks it will give.
If we had had a census in 1976 all this trouble might have been avoided.
Why does the Taoiseach not hold one now?
We could not get it ready in time. The logistics have to be prepared and staff got together. We are holding a census as soon as we can to repair the deficiency and damage caused by the shameful neglect of the Coalition in not having a census in 1976.
That is all water under the bridge. Why not hold the census now?
We would not be ready.
(Interruptions.)
That is not the answer I got from the Minister for Economic Planning and Development last week.
The Deputy knows well that it is the Coalition's fault we do not have the statistical information we should have.
We will have no further argument.
Would the Minister accept that the White Paper which came out a few months ago referred to 1977-80, a short three-or-four-year period. Surely the economic information—
The question on the Order Paper does not have anything to do with the census.
From the Minister's reply I gather there has been a net increase in emigration in 1977 over 1976, could the Minister give any indication as to numbers or the percentage increase?
No. There is no accurate way in which these figures can be made available to the House because of the reason I have stated. There was not a proper census taken; it was postponed. The method of making a calculation is a crude one and because of the huge number of people moving in and out of the country and the very small percentage of that which would relate to the emigration figures about which the Deputy is speaking, it would not be proper to indicate to the House that these were accurate figures. I would not care to give such figures. The Deputy can obtain them himself but I would not make the claim that they were an accurate way of assessing whether we had this rate of emigration or not.
We are ten minutes on that question. I am calling the next question.
Could I clarify——
No. We will not have any further discussion. We are going on to the next question. Questions Nos. 8, 9, 10 and 11 will be taken together.
On a point of order, I object to the Minister taking these four questions together. Last week when I had three questions on the national pay agreement I was allowed to put only one supplementary question. In the circumstances I would ask that these questions be taken separately.
Since the Deputy has given me the opportunity, I should like to say that I went to the trouble of looking up the records on this and while the Deputy was on his feet he asked five supplementary questions and then said he was not allowed to ask one. The Chair has no control over the Minister taking a number of questions together.
I must insist that there was only one supplementary question allowed by you.