asked the Taoiseach the additional or new assurances that were given by him to Mr. Callaghan, which, according to Mr. Roy Mason, have now obviated what Mr. Mason recently declared was an urgent need for a joint meeting with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, to discuss, among other matters, cross-Border co-operation, security, and other similar questions of common interest to the two countries.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - British Premier's Assurances.
1.
As I indicated to the House in my statement on 11 April, my meeting with the British Prime Minister on the occasion of the European Council meeting in Copenhagen on 7 April, which lasted for 50 minutes, was an informal and useful one.
We looked back to our discussion in September, reaffirmed the views expressed in the communique following that meeting, and reviewed progress since then in the political, economic and security areas. While it is not customary to reveal details of such discussions, I can say that we agreed that there should be further meetings between Ministers, as necessary.
There is some doubt as to what was actually agreed in the September meeting and the recent meeting. The only discernible difference between this Government's policy and that of their predecessors was the Taoiseach's insistence that he would get Mr. Callaghan to agree to make a declaration of withdrawal from Northern Ireland as a move towards peace.
The Deputy is making a speech.
Was this question raised at the most recent meeting and was any undertaking given in respect of it?
I never said to anybody that I would insist that Mr. Callaghan would make a declaration of withdrawal.
We need not quarrel about the words.
The words are important and the Deputy ought to realise that they are important and ought to realise that misrepresentation, even if not intended, can create damage. I never used the words and never claimed the insistence attributed to me by the Deputy.
The Taoiseach has not yet said if he raised the question with Mr. Callaghan that the British should, in the interests of peace, withdraw. Did he raise it? If he did, what was the reply Mr. Callaghan gave to him?
I indicated to Mr. Callaghan the content of the Fianna Fáil policy statement issued in October 1975. He was already fully aware of the contents of that statement. I told him that remained our policy.
On the issue of the amount of penetration from the South there is a great difference between Mr. Mason's and the Taoiseach's version, both presumably based on British secret service information.
This seems to be developing into a debate now.
What are the facts about the discrepancy between the Taoiseach's statement and Roy Mason's statement about the penetration by the Provisional IRA from the South to the North?
I already made a full statement on that in my speech at the recent Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis. These are the facts as we know them and they were published.
Surely the Taoiseach should be prepared to repeat to the Dáil whatever he has to say.
What is the position regarding talks about cross-Border co-operation? Is it the case that it was arranged that there should be early ministerial meetings to discuss progress in this area? If so, when is such a meeting likely to take place?
That is a separate question.
It is not.
It was mentioned in the course of my talks with Mr. Callaghan. We referred to the fact that the talks that had been arranged, following our meeting in September, between officials had now reached the stage when they could be taken further by meetings between Ministers. We agreed that meetings between Ministers would take place as necessary. No firm arrangement has yet been made for such meetings between Ministers.
In the light of that agreement between the Taoiseach and the British Prime Minister does not Mr. Mason's suggestion that no meeting was needed require some explanation or how does it fit in with the agreement to have a meeting?
I think that was a misinterpretation of what Mr. Mason said in the British House of Commons, perhaps justified, on the part of some newspapers. I believe he never said anything like that. If the Deputy will consult Hansard he will see that he did not say anything like that.