asked the Taoiseach the representations he has made to the British Government regarding legislation to increase the number of seats for Northern Ireland in the Westminster Parliament; and if he will comment on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Northern Ireland MP's.
7.
As I have already informed the House, I first raised this matter with the British Prime Minister at our meeting in London on 28 September 1977, when I expressed concern that the recommendations of the Speaker's Conference could be regarded as evidence of greater integration. I received a firm assurance that there was not a scintilla of a move towards integration and the Prime Minister indeed expressed the view that the British people would not agree to such a move.
I met the British Prime Minister again on the occasion of the European Council meeting in Copenhagen on 7 April 1978, when we looked back to our discussions in the previous September and reaffirmed the views expressed on that occasion.
In the context of the EMS negotiations I met Mr. Callaghan in London on 27 November last. At that meeting I emphasised again the approach I had put forward when we met in September 1977. The Prime Minister reiterated his Government's policy to the effect that they were not moving towards integration.
I am satisfied that the British Government have been kept fully aware of our views and, in particular, our belief that the only basis for a permanent solution is through the coming together of the people of Ireland, by consent, and under agreed structures. We have repeatedly urged the British Government to contribute towards this end by declaring their interest in the unity of Ireland. All history and logic point to the conclusion that it is through reconciliation on these lines and not through policies involving closer integration of Northern Ireland with Britain that the solution of the problem will come, to the benefit of both our countries.
Is it true that when the Taoiseach received those assurances from the British Prime Minister, the increased representation from Northern Ireland to the Westminster Parliament did not mean a scintilla of a move—those were the words the Taoiseach used—towards integration and that the Taoiseach told the British Prime Minister that he accepted that assurance?
I do not know why the Deputy prefaces his question by asking is it true. If the Deputy has heard anything arising out of my meeting with the British Prime Minister that was not published, that is a matter for himself, for his sources and for his own interpretation.
I do not know how the Taoiseach could imply in his last statement that I am using information which I obtained at private meetings. I am basing my question on the fact that the Taoiseach himself in this House said that he accepted the British Prime Minister's assurance that there was no move towards integration in the increase in representation from Northern Ireland to the Westminster Parliament. All I am trying to do is establish that the Taoiseach did make that statement in the House and based my next supplementary question on his acknowledgment that he did make that statement in the House on 3 May 1978.
The Deputy is making a statement.
I accept that I said it. Why is the Deputy asking the question?
I have had experience of some of the Taoiseach's replies to supplementaries and I have found it wise to establish one's ground beforehand.
The Deputy has a quotation if necessary.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that the assurance which he gave to the British Prime Minister on a number of occasions regarding his acceptance that the increase in representation was not a move towards integration undermines the position of Mr. Gerry Fitt and other members of the Westminster Parliament?
This is puerile.
We cannot go on in this strain. We will get into debate and argument and the matter could be interminable.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that his acceptance of the British Prime Minister's statement did so undermine, and, in fact, gave the green light for the introduction of legislation at Westminster which increased the representation of Northern Ireland to that Parliament?
That is a puerile and completely groundless suggestion. Nothing that I said or did not say to the British Prime Minister could influence the introduction or passage of legislation in the British Parliament along the lines suggested. The Speaker's Conference voted 22 to one—certainly there was only one dissenting voice—on the proposed allocation of seats. Nothing that I said then or since to the Prime Minister could possibly have affected the position of any Member of the Westminster Parliament, and certainly not the outcome of debates on legislation.
Is the Taoiseach saying that any representations he or his Government make to the British Government regarding the affairs of Northern Ireland have no effect whatsoever?
Deputy Blaney.
Arising from the Taoiseach's reply, is it not a fact that not only did the present Prime Minister, Mr. Callaghan, but also a predecessor of Mr. Callaghan's, give us clear assurances that there would not be in the present circumstances or in the foreseeable future any increase in seats in Westminster for the Six Counties? Is it not clearly evident from both of these breaches of promise that have been made by these people that they are, as they have always been, quite prepared to play the ball to suit themselves and to hell with Ireland and its troubles?
That is purely argument.
I can put my own interpretation on their actions.
Would the Taoiseach ask the British Government to make a statement declaring their interest in the unity of Ireland? Might I ask the Taoiseach to declare his interest in the unity of Ireland and what proposals he has in mind for this?
That is a separate question.
It arises out of the Taoiseach's reply.
It does not.
Is it not our responsibility to unite the Irish people and not to ask the British Government to do this? Surely that is an insincere position.
Question No. 8.