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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 6 Mar 1979

Vol. 312 No. 5

Private Members' Business: - Primary School Grants: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann:—

—noting the fact that the present capitation grant for pupils in primary schools is grossly inadequate;

—noting that the Government, in spite of their manifesto commitment immediately to increase the capitation grant, has still not paid any increase in the grant beyond the level determined prior to the 1977 general election;

—conscious of the rapidly escalating cost of heating and cleaning national schools, and the increasing burden being put on local communities in this regard;

—alarmed at the deterioration in many school premises because of lack of proper maintenance; and

—critical of the failure of the Minister for Education to ensure continued and adequate teacher representation on school management boards;

calls on the Government immediately to increase the capitation grant for pupils in primary schools to an interim minimum of £15.00 per pupil, together with an appropriate rate of local contribution, in order to ensure that heating and cleaning of national schools reaches an acceptable standard, and in order to ensure that the already marked deterioration in the condition of many schools is halted; calls on the Government to make a positive response to proposals by teachers and others for more appropriate structures for representation and accountability within the school management system.

There are two things of importance about this motion. The first, naturally enough, is the wording, and the second is the timing. In all fairness it could be said that now, approximately 20 months after the Government assumed office, is an appropriate time to measure their performance and the performance of individual Departments in a number of key areas. The area this motion in the name of the Labour Party chooses to measure relates to the all-important one of primary education, not indeed all aspects of primary education but those which were the particular concern of the Minister when he was in Opposition and which formed a major element in the Fianna Fáil manifesto in the 1977 general election.

This motion says in couple of phrases that this Government and the Minister have not matched up in the areas identified in the motion to the expectations they aroused in the publication of the manifesto and in particular the section on education. It is a way of saying that this House, having seen the performance of the Government in these areas over the past 20 months, has no confidence in their ability to do any better in the 20 months or however longer that remains to them. It is probably fair to say that an average man reading the Government manifesto in 1977 could have been forgiven for thinking that everybody was being promised more for everything. Nowhere is this truer than in education. The electorate were encouraged to believe that all they had to do was to return a Fianna Fáil Government to office and things would automatically get better. We are already seeing the cracks in the facade.

One of the simplest ways in which I can give an example of that is that when unpopular decisions come to be announced they tend to be announced as Government decisions, such as raising the fees in universities, and when popular decisions are announced, such as the raising of grant level for third level students, they are announced by the Minister. This is no doubt true of all Ministers in all Governments at all times. It is important to identify it now because it shows precisely what is happening not just inside the Department of Education but between the Department and the Minister for Education and the Minister's Cabinet colleagues. This party believe that the inevitable squeeze on education and on the other social services is inevitable precisely because of the budgetary and fiscal policies adopted and followed by the Government since the election. That is a wider economic debate and I will not go into it here. There are fundamental ground rules for the assertions that I will be making.

The motion refers to a number of specific matters in relation to primary education. It notes in particular the fact that the present capitation grant for pupils in primary schools is grossly inadequate and that the Government, in spite of their manifesto commitment immediately to increase the capitation grant have still not paid any increase in the grant beyond the level determined prior to the 1977 general election. It is important to realise exactly what this motion says. In order to do that we have to turn back to the Fianna Fáil election manifesto. In the section dealing with education it says on page 41, paragraph 6:

Fianna Fáil will immediately increase the capitation grant for primary school pupils.

That manifesto was published a short time after an announcement by the then Minister for Education, Deputy Peter Barry, in relation to the level of capitation grants for primary schools. The relevant quotation from his statement, dated 19 May 1977 was:

I have decided that provision should be made in the Estimates for 1978 that the payment of the grant in respect of the school year 1977-78, that is in January 1978 and in June 1978, should be at the rate of £80 per annum per pupil. This increased grant of £80 from the Department will attract a contribution of at least £2 from local sources, and the school authorities, accordingly, will have a minimum of £10 per pupil as against a minimum of £7.50 at present, i.e. an increase of 33? per cent. This increase in the capitation grants from the Department of Education is estimated to cost about £1.2 million in 1978.

When the Minister sitting on the other side of the House this evening assumed office one of the earliest things I asked him about was when he proposed to fulfil the Fianna Fáil commitment immediately to increase the capitalisation grants. All these attempts to elicit necessary information were met by a considerable degree of evasion and eventually by a de facto admission that the Minister's generosity in paying the increased amounts, which had been determined prior to the general election, was a fulfilment of the Fianna Fáil election manifesto. The Minister has never to my knowledge said this in so many words but he has certainly implied it. If he implies it he must logically stand over it. If he does not stand over it, then it is plainly clear that Fianna Fáil have not fulfilled that part of the manifesto. If he stands over it he is in the awkward position of having to maintain that the payment made by the Government on a commitment of a proceding Government amounts to an increase such as was specified in the Opposition manifesto of the day.

The increase specified by the then Minister for Education was paid in due course. Any level-headed, same, average person who looks at the commitment by the Fianna Fáil Government in their manifesto would have expected that if that commitment were to be honoured a grant would have been increased beyond the £80 level specified by Deputy Peter Barry. There is no simple way in which the Minister can evade that reading of plain English. It is not as if it would have cost that much. The Minister could have put an extra £1 per pupil on top of the £8 decreed by Deputy Barry. It would have cost the Government and the tax-payers about £½ million. Instead of giving £½ million to the primary sector of education in fulfilment of an unambiguous pre-election commitment, they gave £5 million back to the wealthiest sector of our community by abolishing the wealth tax, a matter which was not in their pre-election manifesto at all. It would have taken 10 per cent of what they gave to the richest people honestly and seriously to fulfil their election commitment of raising immediately the primary school capitation grants. Anybody who does the political mathematics of that equation will realise that, by not honouring that part of their manifesto when compared with the other budgetary and fiscal policies they adopted immediately after coming into office, this must be seen as failure.

We are given to understand that in the coming school year there will be a further increase in the capitation grants for primary school pupils. We are not told, for very good reasons, whether or not this is the Minister's implementation of the manifesto's commitment to raise grants immediately. I do not think that even somebody with the Minister's elasticity of the concept of language would accept that 20 months or more constitutes "immediately". We are to have an increase but when I questioned the Minister recently about this he as much as said that I could do my sums like anybody else and if I looked at what was provided last year and what is provided for this year, I would see there is an increase. Not being one to duck an invitation such as the Minister offered, I did my sums. On the basis that an extra £1.2 million is being allocated for increased capitation grants in national schools in the next school year, we must look at it in terms of whether or not it relates in any real sense to the Fianna Fáil manifesto and whether it is adequate to meet the situation.

In relation to the Fianna Fáil manifesto, even if one were to stretch language beyond its breaking point and accept that this increase is what they promised in 1977, it is fair to add that anybody reading the manifesto and seeing their commitment to increase the primary school capitation grant would expect that whatever increase was negotiated would result in an increase in real terms to the primary schools of the value of that grant. The Minister has been unduly modest and I suspect he may not be proud of what he has to offer. If the Minister can claim that the grant at the beginning of the winter term this year will match the value, after inflation, that it had when it was first introduced, it is the most he can do. I doubt if he can even do that.

As regards the increase in all items in the consumer price index, if one takes the figure in November 1975 as 100, the figure in November 1978 was 144.2. The date in 1975 is the nearest date to that on which the first payment was made under the previous administration. The grants will not really become operative in their increased form until the autumn of this year. We have to take a national figure for inflation between November 1978 and November 1979. It is reasonable to assume an inflation figure of 10 per cent for that period. If one adds 10 per cent to 144.2 one gets a figure of 158.4, rounded up to 160.

If we do our sums on the basis that for every £1 that the primary school got for each of its pupils in 1975 it should get at least £1.60 by the autumn of this year to compensate for inflation, we will see that the appropriate grant would be of the order of £9.60. The Minister, if I am right in assuming this, is indicating that the grant from his Department for the coming year will be of the order of £10. It would appear as if he had if not exactly generously kept the value of the grant in line with the inflation over that period.

However, two things need to be said. Firstly, over the period we are talking about the proportion of the cost of maintaining national schools which is accounted for by heating by oil and electricity will have gone up far more dramatically than the average we are talking about. We read in today's papers that the ESB have applied for a price increase of the order of 20 per cent. The question is not only what will that do to the CPI and to inflation but what will it do to the budget of primary schools which are, in some cases, enormously dependent on electricity for heating? In other cases they are dependent on oil the price of which the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy has also assured us, with some sadness, will go up. If we accept—I do not, because of the oil price increases and other factors—that the increase in the grant will keep pace with inflation, it is not enough in terms of the Fianna Fáil manifesto. What people were entitled to expect was an increase in real terms in the capitation grants of national schools. That did not happen. It is possible to argue that the value in real terms might have decreased.

Secondly, how many of our primary school management boards are in silent and hopeless breach of the Department of Education regulations not to run overdrafts? What does the Department of Education propose to do about it if they are? The story from all areas is that the level of grants is not enough, that because it is not enough the condition of schools is deteriorating. Basic exterior maintenance, painting and so on, has had to be neglected in favour of the basic primary consideration of keeping the children warm. Not even that consideration has been capable of being fulfilled in all instances.

Another aspect of this problem is the ratio of expenditure on these items between this country and Northern Ireland. The Minister, as somebody who sits for a constituency in a Border county, must be as conscious as anybody else, if not more so, of the implications for national unity of any widening of the gap in social services in both parts of this island. In some regards that gap has been narrowed but I would argue that, if anything, it has been widened in relation to education. The National Economic and Social Council, in a report in 1975, talking about expenditure on non-teacher items such as heating and cleaning in primary schools in Northern Ireland and the Republic, argued:

Expenditure in Northern Ireland is over seventeen times greater on a perpupil basis for these items. Even if one includes our earlier maximum estimate of £3.50 locally financed expenditure per pupil in the Republic, and excludes all private expenditure elsewhere, non-teacher expenditure is still almost six times as great in Northern Ireland and England and Wales. These are extremely large differences and must reflect significant differences in resources available to teachers and children in schools, and it would be unlikely if they did not have some effect on educational attainment in the long run.

Later on in the same report the author's note reads:

Taken overall, the provision of educational and non-educational services to primary school pupils may be aggregated as follows. (The figures once again refer to 1971-72, but they may be taken as a reliable guide to more recent years because policy developments have not been significant since that date). In the Republic, expenditure per pupil in primary schools from public funds was £64.90 of which £59.97 went on teachers' salaries, £1.70 on other "in-school" expenditure and £3.43 on "non-educational" items (meals, transport etc.).

In Northern Ireland public expenditure was £121.76 per primary pupil, of which £69.94 went on teachers' salaries, £30.60 on other "in-school" items and £21.22 on "non-educational" items.

The difference that we are talking about are enormous in scale.

What year was that?

NESC Report No. 12 of 1975. The Minister cannot take refuge in the excuse that, given the choice between spending money on teachers and on facilities, he spends money on teachers. Granted he has been given more money to spend on teachers but over the period that we are talking about the pupil/teacher ratio, on average, has changed both in Northern Ireland and in the Republic. At the time this report was written the teacher/pupil ratio in the South was about 32 point something to 1 and in the North it was about 28 point something to 1. In the Republic it is now 29 point something to 1 and in the North it has gone down to 22 point something to 1. I apologise to the House for not having the exact decimal points.

The sad effect of this and the necessary conclusion to be drawn from it is that not only in terms of expenditure on heating and cleaning and the sort of things we are talking about here but also in basic pupil/teacher ratios the gap between the provisions in Northern Ireland and in the Republic has, if anything, widened over the period in question. I do not know whether the Minister would take the advantage of the speech he will make when moving his amendment to explain the apparent discrepancy, in relation to the number of extra teachers that primary schools in the Republic are to have this year, between his statement to press correspondents and his statement in response to a Parliamentary Question, but I will leave that up to him.

In general terms, one thing must be said: that is, that the amount is not enough. The gap between us and Northern Ireland in terms of maintenance, heating and cleaning is probably widening. The very least that the Minister must now be asked to implement is an annual review of the amount of such payments with all the interested parties.

I was interested to note in relation to the Minister's post-budget press conference that he has also announced—this is of particular relevance to the heating, cleaning and maintenance capitation grants—that apparently 200 caretakers are to be provided for primary schools. This raises some very interesting questions. As the rules and regulations for primary schools make clear, the payment of the heating, cleaning and maintenance grant to a school is dependent on the lodgment in the school account of an amount related to the per capita amount that has to be collected locally. Are we now going to have two different types of schools—smaller poorer schools where lodgment of the required amount only releases £X from the Department of Education and larger better off schools where the lodgment of a proportionate amount of money releases not only £X from the Department of Education but also a caretaker? The Minister may well be in a contractual relationship with the schools in terms of the payment of this money. If so, he would be advised to consider carefully anything which increases the already big gap between large schools and small schools in relation to the provisions of essential facilities and the maintenance of basic standards.

In relation to small schools, there are a number of other points which might be made. The motion to which the Labour Party have subscribed urges a minimum floor of some £750 for such schools. It is widely acknowledged by this Government, and was by the previous Government, that the problems of scale means that small schools need to be proportionately better financed than large schools. The Minister for Education realised this in Opposition when he said on 9 February 1977, according to The Irish Times, “Many people involved in primary school management who could neither get a central school nor get money for the provision of water and sanitary services will be glad if the Minister delivers on his promise of money.” I suspect they would still be glad if this Minister also delivered on his promise of money.

I would like to turn to the latter part of the motion which is critical of the failure of the Minister for Education to assure continued and adequate teacher representation on school management boards and calls on the Government to make a positive response to proposals by teachers and others for more appropriate structures for representation and accountability within the school management system. The history of this part of the motion is quite clear. When the present scheme for shared management in primary schools was introduced by the previous Government it was accepted with some reluctance by the INTO and only on the basis that a through-going review of the scheme would be carried out three years after it had been instituted. The three years fell due and there seemed for quite sometime to be little likelihood of the review which the previous Government had promised. Eventually, after substantial prodding in this House and by the INTO, the Minister agreed to a review. The review was of a situation which has developed considerably over the past three years. To some extent there has been a lack of public comment on the working of the boards of management to date, but this should not be taken as evidence that they are all working satisfactorily; indeed, the rules under which they work forbid any board member from making public anything that goes on, so it is not surprising that public comment has been at a minimum. Privately, however, some teachers, some parents and even some patrons' representatives have been known to complain about undemocratic procedures in the election of parent representatives and about the refusal of the chairman of management boards to conduct meetings in a democratic manner.

The Minister has already publicly admitted that the specimen rules for the election of parent representatives, which contained many valuable safeguards for democratic rights, are not mandatory and can be ignored at will if anybody chooses to do so. Even today many parents do not know the names and addresses of the parents who are their representatives on the management boards of primary schools and as these elected partners are not allowed to report back to their electorates the whole idea of an election board is a farce. One can imagine the outery if meetings of Dáil Eireann were held in private and if at every general election TDs went back to the voters and told them they were sorry they could not let them know what had been happening in the past four years but they were standing for re-election and hoped the electorate would understand. This is what is happening in the name of participation in our primary schools.

The Irish National Teachers' Organisation in a press release dated 8 September last noted that:

The INTO had asked the Department to advise the other parties involved in management about the INTO position and to postpone the election of all board representatives.

It went on to add:

Provided a measures of goodwill and co-operation is shown by all parties, a speedy review can be carried out. If acceptable amendments are made to the present guidelines, delay in the reconstitution of boards can be kept to a minimum. The INTO will expect the Minister to take the necessary initiative.

The review finally took place and a statement was issued after the review by the Minister for Education on 23 January 1979. It stated:

There are a number of outstanding matters of principle on which complete agreement has not been reached, namely, structure of boards, method and level of financing and arrangements for the appointment of teachers. However, a substantial measure of agreement was reached on practical and procedural matters which should greatly facilitate the operation of the boards.

This statement blandly glosses over the major problem in relation to the review body, namely, that the INTO have decided in their wisdom to continue not to participate in these boards. I doubt very much that even the practical and procedural matters to which the Minister and the Department drew such attention in their statement will be of any practical significance whatever for as long as the teacher representation on the boards is not secured. I doubt that the working of the boards themselves can be said in any sense to be realistic without full and adequate teacher representation. At their recent special conference on this matter, the INTO passed the following motion:

Having considered the amendments to the constitution of boards of management of national schools and rules of procedure which were agreed by the parties who participated in the review, Congress

(1) authorises members of the organisation to serve on boards of management when organisation policy in relation to:

(a) structure of boards of management,

(b) appointment of teachers,

(c) financing of schools,

(d) other relevant matters

be agreed on by all interested parties.

(2) calls on the CEC to initiate a course of action to secure such agreement.

The tragedy of the failure to reach agreement on the vital matters connected with this review means that a number of very valuable advances are being held up. In particular, I refer to the grievance procedure set out in an appendix to the agenda for the INTO Special Congress and also to the innovation which I believe to be a salutary one which entitles a teacher or a school in certain circumstances to suspend a pupil subject to an equally important right of appeal by the parents to the board of management. This latter aspect of the review has immense positive potential for the whole problem of discipline in the schools and ultimately for the problem of corporal punishment, in which the Minister has expressed an interest.

I hope the Minister will take the necessary steps to secure real agreement on the basis of which this kind of development can take place. The motion in my name and in the names of other members of the Labour Party refers to the payment of an appropriate rate of local contribution. I shall specify precisely what we mean by this. We do not believe that the device of a local contribution is one that should remain for all time and in all circumstances or at the level at which it is currently placed. We believe that any responsible publicly financed system of education will gradually phase out this 19th century relic of the system but we believe also that such a phasing out of the local contribution will inevitably have to be accompanied first by a restructuring of the boards of management to ensure a better and fairer balance of the various interests represented on them at present and, secondly, to a new development that will allow the direct representation on such boards of management of the public interest.

The public interest is a vital and real one. It represents £148 million of tax-payers' money for primary education alone in the Book of Estimates. The problem is that the whole question of management and the representation of the interests on boards of management, including the public interest, cannot be readily resolved at the level of the individual school and that is why the Labour Party and a number of other people have called for the establishement of local education authorities that will ensure representation of the local interest on boards of management in primary schools and in other schools also. This kind of development, which is foreshadowed in the motion, is essential if we are to have any real public accountability in our educational system and if we are to cease the interminable and unwinable battle of trying to solve all management problems at the level of the individual school.

I should like to deal briefly with the amendment in the Minister's name which states:

approves of the policy of the Minister for Education in providing increased financial aid for national schools and notes with satisfaction the efforts made by the Minister to secure agreement from all the parties involved. . . .

The amendment is pathetic. I believe I could have drafted a better one myself. I do not propose to do so because that is the Minister's job but I find it incredible that the Dáil should be asked to note "with satisfaction" what the Minister is doing in this regard. A better word would be "despondence" or perhaps even "indifference."

We are asked to note with whatever emotion the Minister deems appropriate the efforts being made by him. All that we have been told to date is that the proposals for changes in the system of boards of management of national schools has been sent out to all the interests involved and the Minister hopes to secure their agreement on the proposals. If he did not get their agreement around the table at which the review body was constituted, how does he hope to get their agreement outside it? It is plain that on the two basic matters we are talking about in this motion, the financing and the structure of primary education, the review body have failed to come to an agreement. They have failed because the Minister has not been able to guarantee the schools any real substantial increase in the level of financing and because he has been unwilling, in the name of the public and the taxpayer, to intervene to any extent in the general, ongoing discussion about the structure of management boards of the schools. It is unmistakable that without a real, positive change in the financial allocation for these schools and without substantial, meaningful alterations in the structure of boards of management, teacher participation will not be on for the immediate and perhaps even the intermediate future. For both of those failures and for the paralysis of the boards of management the Minister must stand indicted.

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"approves of the policy of the Minister for Education in providing increased financial aid for national schools and notes with satisfaction the efforts being made by the Minister to secure agreement from all the parties involved in regard to the revision of the Constitution and Rules of Procedure for Boards of Management of National Schools."

I welcome this opportunity to give an account of my stewardship with regard to primary education in the terms of the amendment before the House. Deputy Horgan and the Labour Party put down the motion and reminded me of two things: the old saying about the person who promises all the hares on the mountain, but of course one had to catch the hares himself, and also the story of McDarney, who seems to be the patron saint of the Labour Party. McDarney made his will and distributed huge sums of money in largesse in it. He published his will long before he died and, when asked where the millions were to come from, he said "I have not got that money at all. The fact is that is what I would do with it if I had it."

Deputy Horgan in moving his motion, talked about the increase in the capitation grants which were announced on 19 May 1977. The Fianna Fáil manifesto was published on 26 May 1977, just one week later. Deputy Horgan is a naïve man—and it was this kind of naïvete which caused the Labour Party to do so badly in the general election—if he thinks that we could put our education programme together in one week. The people knew ours was a well-considered manifesto and supported it.

We must give the credit to Deputy Barry, then Minister for Education, for promising the increase when 1978 came around. But it was a Fine Gael Act, because there was no pressure from the Labour Party, no cri de coeur from the Seanad where the then Senator Horgan was asking for increased finance for primary or other schools. The silence was deafening. Any motion I put down calling for increased expenditure at that time failed to get the support of the Labour Party and failed in one instance to attract the presence of any Member of the Labour Party except the then Deputy Coughlan from Limerick, who came in at the end of the debate. The Deputy never called for any increase and the increase promised by Deputy Barry, then Minister for Education, was paid for by me as Minister and by the present Government.

Deputy Horgan is very selection in his figures. I would point out that, from mid-November 1975 to mid-November 1977, fuel and light increased according to the consumer price index, from 100 base in 1975 to 136.1 in 1977. What increase was given in capitation grants in that period? Absolutely none, not a red halfpenny. Deputy Horgan very carefully concealed that in his speech by starting in 1975 and coming forward to the present day. I have stitched that into the record—from 1975 base 100 to 1977 the increase was 36.1 per cent and there was not one single halfpenny of an increase in the capitation grant at that time. What efforts did Deputy Horgan make to increase the grant? Nothing could be heard from him in the rarified atmosphere of the Seanad. There is an Irish proverb which says "Is fial thú le stiall leathair duine eile". That is what happened. There was a promise, like the promise of McDarney; but there was no delivery. This Government had to deliver in 1978.

I will take the House through what has been achieved with regard to the financing of primary education since this Government took office one year and eight months ago. The election manifesto committed us to increasing the capitation grants for the operating costs of national schools, allowing special grants for the all-Irish schools in the Galltacht, reducing the pupil/teacher ratio and embarking on a building programme to replace outdated schools. Progress to date on all these matters has been considerable.

I would like to deal firstly with the scheme of capitation grants towards the operating costs of national schools. There is no doubt but that the introduction of this scheme in 1975 by the then Minister resulted in a marked improvement in the aid made available towards the cost of heating, cleaning and maintaining national schools. Unfortunately, however, no steps were taken to ensure that the value of the grant was maintained. The rate of £6 remained unaltered in the financial years through 1975, 1976 and 1977.

As I have just told the House the increase at that time in the CPI for heating, cleaning and lighting was 36.1 per cent. Those plugging for extra expenditure in education at the primary level at that time in the Labour Party were very thin on the ground; in fact, they were not there at all. My predecessor announced in advance that there would be an increase in the rate from £6 to £8 per pupil in 1978. This announcement was made immediately prior to the last election. It took a long time to come, but it came at that time. However, it was not to be paid until 1978. It was left to the incoming Government to ensure that the necessary additional funds to enable such an increased rate to be paid should be provided. This was done in the 1978 Estimates. The House will be aware from my replies to recent parliamentary questions of a further increase in the general rate of capitation from £8 to £10.

That is over one year and eight months, not over several years. This increase will be effective during the current school-year. The amount of the State grant will be supplemented by a contribution from local sources of at least 25 per cent of the State grant. The funds available for the operating costs of national schools has been increased from £7.50 per pupil in 1976-77 to a per capita figure of £12.50 in the current school year—that is an increase of 66 per cent over a two-year period. The additional cost to the State is £2.4 million. This contrasts starkly with the previous two year period when under the Coalition no increase at all was granted.

The all-Irish schools in the Galltacht I consider to be in special need of assistance, in particular as they have no distinct community to generate the local contribution. For that reason I have arranged that an additional amount of 50 per cent of the normal rate of grant would be payable to the boards of management of these schools.

Because the grant is calculated on a per capita basis, which indeed was the method desired by the managerial bodies, there are certain defects inherent in such a system of payment for some schools. The special schools for the handicapped are an obvious case. Every effort is made to adjust the rate of payment to the various categories of such schools so as to reflect the pupil/teacher ratio in them. I have decided that schools with low enrolments should receive special attention this year and the minimum grant payable to these schools has been increased from £330 in 1977-78 to £600 in 1978-79. If Deputy Horgan does that sum he will find that that is 80 per cent plus in the period and no doubt this will please him.

Our election manifesto promised to reduce maximum class size to 40 as quickly as possible, and to 32 eventually. Since taking up office I have given clear evidence of my commitment to the achievement of that aim and in keeping with this commitment substantial revisions have been made in the schedule of figures of pupil enrolments required for the appointment and retention of teachers in larger national schools. These revisions became effective from 1 July 1978 for schools having a staff of 15 teachers or more. Schools in the 9-14 teacher range are benefiting from the revisions since January 1979 when those who were accepted under the special trainee teacher scheme graduated from the colleges of education. These revisions together with the appointment of extra remedial teachers in schools catering mainly for socially deprived pupils entitled the creation of 600 new teaching posts. All of this was in addition to the 300 extra posts necessary to cope with natural increases in enrolments. In summary, then, an additional 900 teaching posts have been created in national schools in the current school year. The objective of this increase in the number of teachers and the consequential reduction in the pupil/teacher ratio is the easement of the position in schools where unduly large numbers of pupils are enrolled in some classes. In schools which were to benefit from the application of this new pupil/teacher ratio, special attention was to be given to the elimination of large classes throughout the entire school.

It is a great satisfaction to me that the pupil/teacher ratio has been substantially improved since I took up office and further improvements will be made in the next school year.

Deputies will have noted that, in the budget speech, the Minister for Finance was able to announce the creation of 1,250 additional teaching posts; of these 650 will be in the primary sector. The precise revisions to be made in the pupil/teacher ratio in the forthcoming school-year are currently being considered, and I hope to be in a position to make an announcement on the matter shortly.

An obvious lacuna in the staffing of national schools has been the complete absence of any non-teaching staff. The new curriculum makes great demands on principal teachers and, in fact, the success or failure in implementing the curriculum depends to a very large extent on the personal efforts of the principals. Their responsibilities include (i) the holding of regular conferences with their staff in order to discuss problems, to pool opinions and to evaluate progress; (ii) the outlining of a plan of work for the school as a whole; (iii) the co-ordination of the work of the various classes so as to ensure continuity; (iv) assisting younger teachers and encouraging any teacher with a specialised knowledge or aptitude in a particular area of the curriculum to give advice and guidance to other staff members. In view of the important role envisaged for principal teachers, it seemed wasteful that much of their time was spent on work of a clerical or administrative nature. This was especially so in the case of principals of the larger schools who would not normally be required to undertake class responsibility. It was for this reason that the scheme for the appointment of clerical assistants was devised last year. The intention was to create 600 of these posts in primary and post-primary schools. It is a matter of some disappointment to me that not even half of the posts have as yet been filled and I would urge management authorities of the eligible schools to proceed with the making of the appointments at the earliest possible date.

The expenditure of the school building programme in 1978 amounted to £15.4 million and was the highest ever. As a result, the provision of new schools and replacement of unsuitable schools and the enlargement and improvement of existing schools took place on a scale never before achieved in this country.

An additional £1.1 million has been allocated in the current year, making a total of £16.5 million. This provision will enable a greatly accelerated building programme to be continued, ensuring improved standards of accommodation and facilities to meet modern educational needs.

I would like to say a word about boards of management and I should like to correct something Deputy Horgan said. He referred to a statement which he implied was a Department of Education statement. This was an agreed statement, agreed between the managers, the INTO and the Department of Education. I should like to put that on the record of the House.

The establishment in 1975 of boards of management for national schools meant that for the first time parents and teachers were given a significant voice in the management of these schools. The general consensus is that these boards have worked well and have added a new dimension to the primary education scene. A review of the rules of procedure under which the boards function was undertaken with all the interested parties following the first three-year period of operation of the boards. The House will already be aware of the substantial amendments suggested in the rules of procedure as a result of the review. The House will no doubt also be aware of the result of the special delegate congress held on 23 and 24 February 1979 by the Irish National Teachers' Organisation on the boards of management.

As I have stated, there are three parties to these discussions about boards of management, the managerial authorities, the Department of Education and the Irish National Teachers' Organisation, each with their own point of view. I am hopeful that a solution to the problems that have arisen will be worked out and, as Minister, I will willingly assist in every way possible in seeking to have the matters resolved to the mutual satisfaction of the parties involved so that teachers may again fully participate in the workings of the boards in the interests of the pupils and the schools.

Despite all the forebodings about a reduction in expenditure on the education services, expenditure on primary education has been increased from £131,579,000 in 1978 to £148,765,000 in 1979. I should like just to refer to something Deputy Horgan mentioned about Northern Ireland and the comparative costings and about pupil teacher ratios. First, if it were a matter of choice of spending money on teachers or spending money or artifacts I would make no apology in any place for spending it first on teachers. The quality of the teacher in the school is the most important single thing. I have stated in the House before that the quality of our teachers generally is very high and for that reason I think it is better to spend money—even more money than our neighbour—on salaries rather than on something else.

Just about a year ago I happened to be at a social function and sitting beside the wife of the head of the Northern Ireland Office who is involved in primary teaching with one of the education colleges. She pointed out to me that some of our women teachers with corresponding qualifications were getting up to £1,000 per annum more than the corresponding teachers in Northern Ireland. I said I was very pleased to hear that and that, if money were to go anyplace, that it the place it should go. Golden teachers and wooden forms are better than golden forms and wooden teachers.

Deputy James Dillon painted that line a long time ago.

It goes much farther back in Irish literature. It is one of the little gems known to those of us who had the privilege of studying Irish literature. I do not claim and I am sure Deputy James Matthew Dillon would not claim any copyright. The provision of £5,700,000 for capitation grants for national schools in the current year is an increase of £1,300,000 over the previous year. This increased provision enabled the increase in the capitation grant by 25 per cent from £8 per pupil to £10 per pupil. An additional £1,100,000 has been provided for the building, equipping and furnishing of national schools and, as I have already mentioned, this brings the provision under this head to £16,500,000 in the current year.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Finance in his budget speech announced an additional £3,900,000 for the educational services. Of the additional £3,900,000, £2 million is for the educational services generally and £1,900,000 is for job creation in the educational sector generally. On the primary side, almost £500,000 has been set aside for the employment of caretakers in national schools. I can assure Deputy Horgan that there is no need for him to be sorry about how we will run this scheme. If he is alarmed at the deterioration in primary school buildings, he should welcome this development and be pleased with it. I am sure the caretakers who will be sanctioned in large schools in cities and towns will add to the convenience of pupils and teachers and ensure the preservation of the buildings for which they will be caring.

The sum of £250,000 will go to increasing the minimum level of capitation grant payable in small schools. I have referred to this already. This is the floor grant. Deputy Horgan rightly said there was a need for it. The previous Government realised there was a need for it. It has been my privilege to increase that floor by 80 per cent plus in the current year. The additional money made available in the budget has allowed me to increase the minimum grant to £600 from £330 based on a school of 60 pupils. In addition to the increased provision in the estimates for grants for free books for necessitous pupils in primary schools, an additional £81,000 is now being provided from the money made available in the budget. I submit that the provision of books for necessitous pupils is very important. The Book of Estimates shows an increase, and this additional money will be well spent on the provision of books.

An additional £70,000 is being provided which will enable a substantial increase to be made in the grant payable to pupils attending Irish colleges. This will help them to develop both their love of and knowledge of the Irish language by attending courses in the Gaeltacht. I am also providing money to the colleges of education for the recruitment of extra staff to reinforce instruction in Irish. This is particularly welcome to the Irish staffs in the colleges of education and will, in a very brief period, show results in the primary schools.

One of the areas catered for by the Minister of State, who will have an opportunity to talk about it, is the area of special schools. An extra £50,000 for equipment in special schools has been made available this year for the physically and mentally handicapped, especially in schools for the deaf where equipment is very important. The provision has been doubled this year compared to last year.

We are also making extra money available for the youth encounter scheme. Social workers and people who are concerned about certain areas in our cities have welcomed this extra provision for the youth encounter scheme. In the schools for the physically handicapped there are serious problems in regard to aiding pupils into classrooms and out of classrooms, helping them to the toilet, helping them to dress, and so on. This year £175,000 is being provided for the recruitment for the first time of 70 child care assistants in such schools which cater for the physically and the mentally handicapped.

In the time available to me I think I have said enough to show that over the years there was neglect and that the years selected by Deputy Horgan were an exercise in selecting clever statistics. I have pointed out that the Government have given a priority to the primary education sector which it did not have before, and backed it with money. This priority has taken a very practical form in the shape of a substantially increased provision for the primary sector, a very substantial reduction in pupil-teacher ratios, with further reductions to come this year, the employment of a greatly increased number of remedial teachers, the provision of ancillary services such as clerical assistants and caretakers who were not available before, and a greatly expanded programme of building and improvement works. Pity it is that the Labour Party were not as exercised about primary education when they participated in Government as apparently they have become since going into Opposition. Pity it is 'tis true, but it is true.

The Fine Gael Party fully support the motion before the House in the name of Deputy Horgan and his colleagues. The Minister has a very short memory when he makes any reference to the previous Government. I was in this House from 1969 to 1973 and I experienced the arrogance of the Fianna Fáil Government and a large amount of frustration at their inactivity in the field of education. It is no harm to remind the House of the gross neglect of education in the 17 years Fianna Fáil enjoyed in Government until 1973. Since the Minister was interested in statistics it is interesting to note that the National Coalition Government had the courage to introduce the capitation scheme for the maintenance of national schools in 1975. That was not done by Fianna Fáil.

I want to challenge the Minister on his statistics which he seems to have got wrong. The initial £6 and £1.50 allowance was increased to £8 and £2 by the National Coalition Government for the school year 1977-78, by 33? per cent. That was a commitment. That amounted to an increase of 33? per cent in two years. Now the increase amounts to 25 per cent for the following two years. Those are the facts. I do not like statistics being distorted—it goes against the grain—I like things to be ac-curate for the record. I am pleased to note the increase that the Minister says will take place in this current school year to £10 per capita and £2.50 local contribution, with an increase of the low enrolment base from £330 to £600. That is very necessary. I should have preferred to see a figure of £750 as the base as stated in the motion. One must say that this maintenance grant basically is inadequate. The scheme needs to be looked at from a radical point of view rather than just being tampered with and being increased by a small amount.

It is not so long ago since we in this House read in the papers of a school in Dublin which had to be closed because of lack of funds. The school had used the funds on insurance, which was not allowed under the scheme. The scheme needs to be completely re-negotiated. Indeed, the attitude taken by the INTO last year in respect of substandard schools, of which there were between 700 and 800, indicates quite clearly that the sums available for maintenance are basically and inherently inadequate. Therefore, to increase them by a percentage is not sufficient. It does not meet the case for a complete re-negotiation of the scheme as between the Department and the patrons of the schools. One would hope that the boards of management might be brought into such discussions also. The scheme itself warrants investigation in depth. Its scope needs to be broadened and the flexibility allowed to schools in relation to expenditure needs to be examined and broadened.

I should have commenced by referring to the commitment of the Government to education. In reply to my Parliamentary Question, No. 475 to the Minister for Education on 18 April last, the Minister supplied a tabular statement showing that the percentage of current budget spent on education in 1973-74 was 18.2 per cent; for the nine months to December 1974 it was 16.9 per cent; for 1975, 17 per cent; 1976, 17.3 per cent and for 1977 it was 17.1 per cent. Those are fairly good figures because in 1978, under the present administration and in the context of their manifesto, that figure fell from 17.1 per cent to 16.8 per cent. In reply to my Question No. 219 to the Minister on 27 February the outturn for 1978 was 16.53 per cent, and the budget estimate for 1979 is 16.62 per cent, representing a reduction in the Government's commitment to education for their two years in office over any one year of the National Coalition.

The Deputy is forgetting something though; he is forgetting the thing about the rates.

I am talking about primary education.

Yes, but it is a percentage of the much larger amount which has to be supplied to local authorities and so on. Anyway, I am sorry to interrupt the Deputy but it is a significant factor.

No, it is not. I am fighting—as is the Minister within his Cabinet but apparently without much success—for a much larger portion of the cake for education. It is not forthcoming and it is seen from these figures not to be forthcoming. I noted that the Vote on Primary Education increased by approximately 9 per cent, from £136 million plus to £148 million plus. That does not constitute an adequate increase in the context of inflation. Far be it from me to come between the Minister for Finance and Deputy FitzGerald on the rate of inflation but I would submit to the House that the rate of inflation for 1979 will turn out to be 10 per cent or thereabouts, and not 5 per cent as indicated in the budget speech. I would put my reputation as an economist on that figure. Taking that figure into account, all that is seen in the budget is that the status quo will be maintained in real terms. Seeing that salaries and so on form such a major part of the Primary Education Vote it seems to me that we will suffer on some fronts. Where we will suffer I am not sure and I have not had an opportunity of examining the Estimates in depth yet. The fact is that the increase is only barely in line with the rate of inflation and that is not good. The increase in primary education barely keeps in line with inflation and the percentage of the overall cake devoted to education as a whole has fallen in the two years in which the Government have been in office. I do not like dealing too much in statistics but those are important because the battle the Minister is waging for education within the Cabinet seems to be a losing one. That is to be regretted because all of us in this House would like to see a greater slice of the cake going to education and most certainly going towards primary education.

One matter which I should like to have seen mentioned in the motion is that relating to site acquisition. Here I feel the primary schools sector is being discriminated against in so far as the acquisition of school sites is not done by the State; it must be undertaken by the promoter or patron. That is not so in other sectors of education. For instance, it is not the case in relation to the cost of sites for vocational schools where, in effect, the Department meet the total cost of the school through the vocational education committee. Neither is it so in relation to community and comprehensive schools where no local contribution is sought towards the cost of sites. This is a serious matter and one which may be holding back primary education in this country where the cost of a school site is acknowledged and accepted to be a serious burden and perhaps more so in urban than in rural areas. I plead with the Minister to change the system of financing primary schools and certainly to change the system in relation to the financing of the purchase of school sites. It is very important that the cost of school sites be borne by central government rather than by local interests. The question has not been tackled and it has not been argued in this House at least, in recent times. I would ask the Minister to have a look at that.

Substandard schools exist and I was in one very recently. It is a pity that we are neglecting things in this area. In 1977 the average allocation per pupil from public funds for primary education was the very low figure of £196 compared to that for secondary education at £359 and for vocational schools at £470. Sufficient consideration has not been given by any Government in the past decade or so to this question of commitment to primary education. The various reports make it clear that the increased pressures on the primary sector in the immediate years ahead, and indeed in the intermediate years ahead will pose quite a problem for the Government. I do not see as great a commitment to the primary sector in the Votes of the last two years. I see no great burst of enthusiasm to meet the projected increases in school population at the first level. Nothing that the Minister has said today indicates that an exceptional effort is being made to meet the expected increase in school population.

The Minister started by mentioning clerical assistants and porters and matters like that. The appointment of clerical staff was apparently a secret of Fianna Fáil. I was very annoyed to hear that the details of these appointments were circulated only to members of Fianna Fáil. That is cheap abuse of privilege and beneath the dignity of a Minister.

I got a copy since.

Deputy Horgan is lucky.

There was a copy in the Library all the time.

There was also a copy there for Members of the Fianna Fáil Party. But if there was a mistake, I accept that.

The criteria for the appointment of clerical staff have not met with complete approval. I am aware of one school where a mature lady is secretary. There is no question of money being granted from funds because the scheme is so pitched as to exclude mature ladies from taking up appointments. It was put to me by a certain manager and patron of a school that there is no question of this lady's services being dispensed with because of the confidential nature of the correspondence with which she deals. Anyone here would quite understand the confidential nature of the work of a secretary in relation to the children's conduct, in relation to school affairs and in relation to staff. It is confidential by definition. Any failure on the part of the Department to understand that is wrong. It will create friction and it will be the cause of the scheme not working. I would ask the Minister to have a look at this whole question of the appointment of clerical assistants.

I should like to refer to another matter which the Minister spoke of, and that is the extra £81,000 for the school book scheme. This school book scheme is not really a scheme one can be proud of. It is not working or having any effect. If we are to be committed to a free book scheme as I certainly am, I should like to see a proper library-type system established in primary schools where stocks of books could be built up and preserved for the use of people who want them and where there would not be any stigma attached to their allocation. This is what we should be aiming at. An extra £81,000 divided between 26 counties is obviously not going to go very far. It is only tinkering with a potentially beneficial scheme. This amount of money will not make any impression. I would support any moves the Minister would make in relation to the establishment of a proper library-type scheme.

Relating directly to the motion, I think there is substance in it. The capitation grants are grossly inadequate and should have been increased in accordance with the manifesto immediately the Government came into office. It is a pity this was not done because there are so many substandard schools. It is a pity because there is a need for a radical review. I would have preferred it if the Minister had said here today that he was reviewing the operation of the scheme and the areas which the scheme covers. I would have preferred that type of approach rather than just the increase of money per se, although that is of course welcome. The manifesto commitment was not adhered to.

The question of a local contribution is a very interesting one in the context of the Constitution, under which the State is supposed to provide primary education free. The local contribution question is one which may be unconstitutional. I do not know. I do not pretend to be a constitutional lawyer. Neither am I anxious that the local community be uninvolved in local schools. It is a good thing that parents are involved in the running of schools and I will leave the question of the structure of the boards of management to the ten minutes which I will have tomorrow night. I feel that, if the State undertook fully the maintenance costs of the national schools, the parents would then be in a position to make a contribution, topping up the maintenance fund and allowing for extra-curricular activities—something very important to young children in primary schools. The present scheme needs to be amended radically. £15 per pupil may be more realistic, in the context of the inflationary figures which Deputy Horgan referred to, than the moneys which the Minister has come up with. When the present Minister was in opposition he was looking for £750 under the higher education grants scheme and this did not quite materialise immediately the Minister got into Government. But, in fairness, he did have a crack at it so, I can see that it is easy to spend money when one is in opposition and does not have to find the money.

The Dáil adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 7 March 1979.

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