asked the Minister for Finance the progress to date on changing the system whereby subventions from the European Regional Fund are paid directly into the Central Fund and not necessarily reallocated to the projects specified.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - European Regional Fund.
14.
The regulation governing the regional fund allows member states the option of using contributions from the fund either (i) to supplement the national aid granted to the project in question; or (ii) as a partial repayment of national aid, on the basis that fund assistance is used to supplement the overall regional development efforts of member states.
As the Deputy is aware, it is the second of these methods which has been used in Ireland, receipts from the fund being applied to the financing of increases in the Public Capital Programme.
I am concerned that arrangements for the administration of the fund should be such as to demonstrate clearly that moneys received are used to finance additional investment, especially in the areas of greatest need.
Following the adoption of the new fund regulation last February, my Department has completed its review of the existing arrangement and possible alternatives. Arising out of this review I have given instructions that certain changes be made in the way receipts from the fund are accounted for in the Public Capital Programme: the summary of the programme will in future identify receipts from the regional fund as a separate source of finance alongside the other Exchequer and non-Exchequer resources. The tables giving details of the outturn and estimates of expenditure on the individual services included in the programme will identify that portion of expenditure financed by fund receipts. The introductory notes on the programme will also explain in greater detail the EEC provisions governing the use of fund receipts by national authorities and the way these provisions are applied in Ireland. As a result of these changes it will be possible to identify more clearly the way in which fund receipts are used to supplement national efforts directed towards regional development.
The Minister, replying to a similar question some time ago, indicated that he would be in favour of the first method to which he has just referred in his answer. I understood him to indicate that. Is he now saying that he is adopting a line closer to that method, or is he adhering to the old method, the second one he mentioned in his reply?
The Deputy may not be quite accurate in what he said at the beginning of his question. I think I have indicated on a number of occasions that what I was anxious to ensure was that the accounts demonstrated as clearly as possible what money was received from the regional fund, the purpose for which it was used and also demonstrated that it was in addition to the money being made available internally by the Government. The changes I have just indicated should go a long way to achieving that objective.
Would the Minister feel that the method we have used in the past has been a hindrance to our getting more money from the regional fund, in not actually allocating money directly to specified projects?
I am not aware of any evidence that the method of accounting we used has operated to prevent us getting more money from the fund; I have no evidence of that. My concern in this regard was primarily with demonstrating to our people what was happening with the regional fund and that, to be quite blunt about it, it was not being used by this or the previous Government, as a cover up for Government failure to supply adequate funds for capital investment of one kind or another. I think the changes I have indicated will help to demonstrate this clearly. But I must repeat that I have no evidence whatever to suggest that the method of presentation has prevented us from getting money from the fund.
Is the Minister now assuring the House that the regional fund will be spent in the disadvantaged areas of this country?
That is a separate question.
It is not a separate question.
Well, it is actually.
The Minister has refused to reply to it because the Exchequer is taking money that should be spent on the western counties.
I have refrained from drawing too much attention to what is involved in this but, now that Deputy Begley has invited me to do so, I shall. The fact is that what I have announced is a method of demonstrating clearly what is being done by the regional fund and what is being done by the Government. I want to make it absolutely clear that my predecessor and his colleagues, including Deputy Begley, refused consistently to do that; they used the regional fund to cover up their deficiencies. Now, because I am curing that, Deputy Begley need not try to make a virtue of it. If there is any virtue in it the virtue lies on this side of the House, not over there.
Is the Minister saying to this side of the House that he will spend the money on the western counties? He still has not given that assurance to the House. He has gone back on his word; he should be consistent.
The Deputy is endeavouring to switch to another issue altogether—I understand why he wants to get away from this issue. This question deals with the manner in which the regional fund receipts will be presented. If Deputy Begley has some question to do with the areas in which the fund is expended, that is another matter, and he can of course, put down a question, when we will deal with it. But let us for the moment stick to the question put to me.
The Minister still has not given an assurance.
The Deputy should put down a question, when he will get all the assurance to which he is entitled.
Is the Minister aware that, in the European Parliament, the Commissioner in charge of regional matters pleaded with other countries to follow the example of the Government of Ireland when we were in office who, for the first time on the part of any Government in Europe, identified the regional fund as a separate item in the national budget; that the same Commissioner also deplored the irresponsible attacks made by Deputy Colley and his colleagues, who were then in opposition, and were besmirching the whole operation of the regional fund? It is one of the consequences of their conduct that the regional fund of Europe is at the pitifully low level it is because they never allowed thanks to be expressed for what the European Community was doing for Ireland.
I cannot allow the Deputy to make a speech.
(Interruptions.)
A very good contribution.
I understand Deputy Ryan's disquiet at what has just been discussed here. The last assertion he made is so ridiculous and without any evidence whatever I am hardly called on to reply, except to point out that receipts from the regional fund have jumped enormously since this Government came into office, so that the basis on which Deputy Ryan made this allegation is clearly unfounded even by the results attained.
As far as the presentation of the accounts are concerned I cannot have any knowledge of what Deputy Ryan alleges was said to him by any member of the Commission. I regarded the method of accounting for the regional fund which was adopted by Deputy Ryan and his colleagues as a form of sleight of hand. I have announced methods by which it is proposed to make the position as clear as possible to the people. That is what I advocated when I was in Opposition and what I am doing from this side.
Would the Minister agree that the jump in the regional fund which occurred this year is due to the Parliament exerting their powers contrary to the desire of the Government here who wanted to make the Parliament incapable of doing anything and it is no thanks to the Government that this went through as they offered no assistance in regard to it?
There is no foundation whatever for that and Deputy FitzGerald knows it. Even if one took the thing at its face value, the incident to which he refers occurred before the increase that I referred to occurred, and Deputy FitzGerald appreciates that as well as anybody else. The reason I referred to the increase in the receipts was because Deputy Ryan tried to pretend that what had been said in Opposition by me and my colleagues had reduced the amount available from the regional fund when the facts showed that——
(Interruptions.)
——that the sum was vastly increased under this Government. What is more——
(Interruptions.)
Order, please.
——Deputy FitzGerald and Deputy Ryan persistently refused when in Government to present the accounts from the regional fund to the people in a way that clearly showed what was being received, how much was coming from the regional fund and how much from the Government.
It was in the capital budget every year. Will the Minister have some regard for the truth?
The Government have now taken steps to ensure that what should have been done is being done and that the people are being told the truth.
Is the Minister suggesting that the annual booklet of the capital budget did not disclose the regional fund as a separate item? If the Minister is alleging that, he is alleging what he knows to be an untruth.