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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 23 Oct 1979

Vol. 316 No. 3

Private Members' Business. - Restoration of Food Subsidies: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy B. Desmond on Wednesday, 17 October 1979:
That Dáil Éireann, aware of the serious economic mismanagement of the economy by the Government and of the major increase in inflation in 1979 which is now projected at 13 per cent for this year and further aware of even larger price increases in certain basic food commodities, emphatically calls on the Government to restore food subsidies so that the living standards of those most affected by this regressive policy, namely, the poor, the elderly, the unemployed, the underprivileged and large families are not further eroded.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "aware of" and substitute "the difficulties facing the economy both at the national and international levels, endorses the policies of the Government to promote social and economic progress, including its policy to phase out food subsidies in order to make additional funds available for productive investment while protecting the interests of the less-privileged through the medium of increased social welfare payments."
—(Minister for Economic Planning and Development).

When they were in Opposition Fianna Fáil called for the introduction of food subsidies. In 1977 the sum paid on food subsidies was £66 million. This was a genuine attempt to help the poorer and less well-off sections. It also helped to keep down our inflation rate. I put it to the House that in withdrawing portion of the food subsidies—approximately £22 million—at the beginning of the year the Government made major blunders in three important respects.

Perhaps the most important was that with regard to wage negotiations it made it absolutely imperative for the trade unions and the workers to pitch their demands for wage increases at a higher level than they would otherwise have looked for. How could one expect the trade unions to do otherwise when the poorer sections were being hit by the withdrawal of the food subsidies and when the wealthiest in the country were allowed exemption from wealth tax? The workers and unions had to look for increased wages and this in its own way helped to generate inflation.

Secondly, the withdrawal of the food subsidies led to an increase in the consumer price index of between 1 per cent and 2 per cent, thus causing inflation. Thirdly, people on low incomes and on short-term social welfare benefits were hit particularly badly.

I have before me the speech of the Minister for Finance when introducing his budget when he stated that short-term social welfare benefits would be increased by 12 per cent. This affected people on unemployment benefit and assistance, disability benefit and maternity allowances but they did not receive the increases until April. At the end of August the rise in the consumer price index was 13.6 per cent. There is no doubt that people drawing social welfare benefits suffered a drop of 1 per cent to 2 per cent in their standard of living. This may not appear to be much but its effect on the recipient of social welfare benefits, disability benefit and so on was severe. The Government made a major blunder in respect of these people.

The Minister is a reasonable, responsible member of the Government and I put it to him that there is an obligation on him to give the House an undertaking that the rest of the food subsidies will not be removed during the remainder of the term of office of this Government. People are anxious and concerned that the existing subsidies of approximately £40 million be retained during the remainder of the term of office of the Fianna Fáil Government.

Last Wednesday I asked the Minister to restore the subsidies the Government have withdrawn but from his answer I do not think the Government will do so. If they did we would applaud the Government and the Minister for their generosity, decency and commonsense but I do not think they will do so. People have suffered as a result of the withdrawal of the subsidies. In the past Fianna Fáil looked after the unemployed and the poorer sections of the community but they have now gone in a different direction. They have made a major blunder with regard to the removal of the food subsidies and if they restore them they will win the respect of many people.

Subsidies have been regarded by all parties as a very blunt instrument. They are probably unfair to the poorer sections of the community whom the Labour Party in their motion state they are seeking to protect. I should like to give some figures to illustrate my point.

Subsidies are not selective; they are indiscriminate. The reduction of the food subsidies in January resulted in an increase of 31p per week in the cost of food to households with an income of less than £50. The saving to the Government was £22 million. If this saving had been given directly to social welfare recipients each person concerned would have received about 65p per week—more than double the extra cost of food. In fact, the increases given by the Government were far in excess of that amount. For example, an old age pensioner received an increase of £2.55p per week in the budget in February and a further increase of £1 per week since the beginning of this month, a total increase so far this year of £3.55p.

I should like to spell out the increases in real terms given to social welfare recipients under the Fianna Fáil Government. I am speaking about social welfare recipients because the cry from the Opposition is that the removal of subsidies hurts the poorer sections of the community most of all. The Government do not believe this. The advantage of direct social welfare payment over indiscriminate food subsidies can be seen even more dramatically in the case of the most recent increases. The net annual cost to the Government of the £1 per week increase in social welfare benefits paid from the beginning of this month will be £19 million per year. If this was spent on food subsidies instead, it would reduce the bill of households earning under £50 per week by about 19p per week. On that assumption it was decided to subsidise milk by 1½p per pint, butter by 6p per pound and flour by 2p per kilo. In the case of high income families earning, for instance, £180 per week these subsidies would reduce their food bill by 36p per week, which is almost twice as much as the reduction for lower income families.

From 1969 to 1973 the increase in real terms for social welfare recipients was 6 per cent and the increase during the period 1973 to 1977 under the Coalition Government, allowing for their high rates of inflation, was 2 per cent. Fianna Fáil returned in June 1977 and the budget of the following year gave increases of 6 per cent in real terms. During the period 1978 to 1979 the increase in real terms to social welfare recipients will be between 8 and 10 per cent. The removal of food subsidies put .75 per cent on the consumer price index as against 2½ per cent caused by the rise of 30 per cent in the cost of our oil imports. During the period of office of the Coalition, food prices rose higher than other items but under Fianna Fáil the reverse is true and non-food items are rising at a higher rate. We are doing the very best we can.

The former Taoiseach, Deputy Cosgrave, has been quoted ad nauseam but since this debate has come up again we should bear in mind what he said. When the 1975 packet of subsidies was being introduced by the Coalition, the Taoiseach said, as reported in the Official Report of 27 June 1975 at column 2159:

Our aim must be to reduce the rate of inflation to a single-digit figure within a reasonably short period and thus to bring about a situation where subsidies will no longer be necessary. No one believes that subsidies are a desirable method of dealing with a situation. They are justified in very exceptional and limited circumstances. It has been repeatedly said that they have many and substantial drawbacks. They are a wasteful way of helping those in need because they apply equally to everyone. They involve a substantial increase in public expenditure when its size and financing are already exerting their own inflationary pressures. They increase the proportion of public expenditure devoted to current consumption rather than to investment. In this way, they are, in the long term, inimical to employment. But in the conditions of today, which are unique in our country's history, the Government are convinced that subsidies are essential to begin to get the rate of price increases down.

The introduction of the subsidies was welcomed by the then Opposition as reported in the Official Report of 26 June 1975 at column 1993:

All of the subsidies on bread, butter, milk, CIE fares, gas, are steps in the right direction, but why so late, why when they are now costing 15 per cent more, why now when they have cost so many thousands of jobs? Why did they not do it when we told them to do it? Why did they not do it in January at the latest? We urged all of those things including the abolition of VAT on electricity, but it was not feasible or worthwhile.

The reason these subsidies were in troduced was to obviate the implementation of the second phase of the national wage agreement. The then Taoiseach in his own way said that subsidies were a blunt instrument.

Last Wednesday night the Minister for Economic Planning and Development made the point that money spent on food subsidies went in the proportion of five-sixths to the better off and onesixth to the less well off, the less well off being those with incomes of less than £50 per week in the 1977 household survey. The point can be further underlined if we take the case where a weekly income was less than £80 in 1977, about £98 in this year's terms. Included in this category are all those mentioned in the Labour Party motion, the poor, the elderly, the unemployed and the underprivileged. Of every £ spent by the Exchequer on food subsidies, only 42 pence goes to the lower income groups and the rest goes to the higher income people.

Clearly, expenditure on food subsidies is weighted in favour of the relatively affluent.

We are discussing a motion on the removal of subsidies. Of all the parties in this House the Fianna Fáil Party is the most socially conscious. These subsidies benefit the wealthier sections rather than the less well off. By increasing social welfare benefits, children's allowances, old age pensions and so on, 68p in every £ goes to the broad category of low income families, families with incomes of up to £98 per week while only 32p goes to the more affluent. There is no doubt that it is much better to assist the less privileged members of society by increasing social welfare payments than by granting blanket food subsidies.

When Deputy Enright quoted from the Official Report of 18 February 1975 he said that the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy was in favour of food subsidies while in Opposition. But inflation at that time was very high. During the first quarter of 1975 the rate of inflation was 23.8 per cent; during the second quarter it rose to 24.5 per cent; the food index was increasing even more rapidly at 22.7 per cent in the first quarter and no less than 28 per cent in the second quarter. In those circumstances subsidies were justified. Inflation was out of control and unemployment was growing. One must compare that with the record of this Government. When we reduced the subsidies—we did not phase them out yet and we did not say that we would do it in one, two, three or four stages—inflation had been brought down to 7.6 per cent, the single digit figures which Deputy Cosgrave referred to when he was introducing food subsidies. The rate of inflation for 1975 was 20.9 per cent, for 1976 it was 18 per cent, in 1977, 13.6 per cent and in January 1978 it had fallen to 7.6 per cent. Certainly, by all the arguments put forward by the Coalition Government of that time, the time had come to begin to phase out subsidies and this we have done. In contrast with the Coalition action while inflation was raging and unemployment growing, Fianna Fáil have created 30,000 new jobs. We have 30,000 more people at work now than we had two years ago. This year we estimate there will be 15,000 new jobs created in spite of the high rise in oil prices. This is quite an achievement when one realises how much better we are doing than some of our counterparts in Europe.

The inflation rate in 1978 fell to 7.6 per cent, the lowest annual rate of increase since 1969. During the present year, in common with most western nations, we have seen an upturn in inflation, the main cause being the increase in oil prices. While the reduction in the subsidies had the effect of putting .75 of one per cent on to the CPI the effect of the 30 per cent increase in oil prices has actually put on 2.5 per cent. To the actual food index itself it has added 2.2 per cent. The less well off section of the community, those in receipt of social welfare benefits, have been more than compensated for the phasing out or reduction of these subsidies—I find myself talking of subsidies being phased out; they have been reduced.

As the House is aware, the most important priority of a Government is the creation of employment. We adopted very ambitious targets in that regard. Not all will be reached but it is more important to have a target and a plan as to how to achieve the target than to have no plan, like Deputy Richie Ryan when he said there was no point in making any plan because conditions were changing from day to day. In 1978 we created 17,000 new jobs, the highest figure on record since the State was founded. This year, even allowing for a shortfall on our target, 15,000 new jobs will be created which is a very fine performance.

In 1977 the gross domestic product increased by 5.6 per cent. That was followed in 1978 by a figure of 6 per cent, the fastest growth in the EEC, and in fact twice as rapid as the average in the EEC and significantly greater than that achieved by almost all the development countries. This year the growth rate will be in the region of 4 per cent, 2 per cent less than our target of 6 per cent which was set before the oil crisis developed to its present extent. Even to achieve 4 per cent with all these difficulties is a great credit to the Government when you consider that this will be higher than most other countries in the western world. This is no accident; it was brought about by direct Government control.

The Government's approach to expenditure has been very different from that of the Coalition. Instead of spending most of the taxpayers' money on endless dole queues this Government have invested vast sums in the capital programme. The public capital programme rose by 21 per cent over the 1977 figure. This year's provision is £974 million, 22 per cent above the out-turn for 1978, and over 40 per cent of the programme is earmarked for directly productive purposes. We believe in planning the economy.

The people are not happy about the price increases, we all know that, but they understand that we are combating the situation far better than the Coalition did. There was a joke at the time of the Coalition that you had better do your shopping in the morning because by the afternoon prices would have gone up again. We are not witnessing anything like the rate of inflation that we saw under the Coalition. If such a situation arose and our inflation was again in the twenties and unemployment was on the increase, under such conditions the Government would increase subsidies. That is exactly what we wanted the Coalition to do they were in office but they did not so it in time and caused enormous hardship. Because of their delay more unemployment was created and inflation raged out of control; people could not cope.

My late father told a story years ago about how outside the Yellow House in Rathfarnham somebody said to him; "What about the penny on the pint?" He replied: "What about it? Is it not better to put a penny on the pint and have the money to pay for it than to take a penny off the pint and not have the money to pay for it?" I do not think there was any retort, not that my father told me. The social welfare recipients have always been better looked after by Fianna Fáil. I remember going on deputations to Deputy Cluskey, now Leader of the Labour Party when he was Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Welfare, asking him to extend the free fuel scheme to people using gas or electricity or other forms of heat apart from turf. We wasted our breath: it took a Fianna Fáil Minister to introduce such a scheme.

This year the present Minister for Social Welfare, Deputy Haughey, introduced that scheme. It has been very much welcomed. I noted many questions on the Order Paper today about fuel being made available for old people. They will always have top priority with Fianna Fáil as those less well off have always had. The record speaks for itself. The Opposition are not upset by us throwing in their faces 10p per year of an increase to social welfare recipients as was done by the National Coalition. That represented in real terms an increase in income of 2 per cent. We are all aware that stagnation followed but we do not have stagnation now, in spite of all the difficulties experienced by the Government. The Government are not sitting back and letting things happen.

It is not correct to pick out one area and say that the Government are falling down on their job. It is not correct to claim that the Government are falling down on their job because of their failure to keep food prices down. The Government adopted a comprehensive and integrated approach to economic matters. We were told in the national understanding that the proper approach was to consider together policies dealing with employment, taxation, improvement in social welfare services and other social and economic policies. When it was announced last December that there would be a reduction in food subsidies people screamed that such a move would mean the end of a national pay agreement but had we done that after negotiating such an agreement it is my view that that agreement would have been destroyed. Those who negotiated that agreement on behalf of the trade unions and employers knew the situation.

They knew that they had to take into account the fact that food subsidies would be reduced with the result that the less well-off sections of the community would be affected. In my view we more than justified the removal of those subsidies as far as the less well off sections of the community were concerned by granting increases in social welfare payments. We will continue to grant such increases to the less well off. We all hear about deficits in trade and speculations about next year's budget, but I predict that social welfare recipients will be given an increase in the budget in line with the increases granted to other sections of the community. We will grant them an increase that will enable them improve their standard of living. That has been Fianna Fáil philosophy through the years. We have always been concerned about the standard of living of the weaker sections of the community.

The Fianna Fáil mission is to ease the burden of the less well-off. One of the great mysteries of our time is that we were not told what happened to the £200,000 which the National Coalition allocated in an effort to combat poverty. That State money disappeared and we did not get anything in return. We were never told how that money was invested or what happened to it. However, those people had to wait until Fianna Fáil came to power for an improvement in their circumstances. We gave this nation back its sense of pride and gave our people employment.

It is never popular to defend price increases but, while I accept that prices are increasing they would have gone up at a greater rate under a National Coalition Government. It must be remembered that under Fianna Fáil employment has improved. When people are asked to judge us on our performance in Government in the next election I have no doubt that they will come down on our side. They will accept that, while everything was not in order during our term of Government, we brought them through difficult times and kept them in employment. We will continue along the path of progress. I have read many statements to the effect that the Government's economic policies are in tatters. That is not true. We have taken some shells broadside but have managed to withstand them; we did not fall apart and sink beneath the waves. We are still in control of the situation and making greater progress than our counterparts in Western Europe. That is the best way to judge a Government. Things would be a lot worse if we were living under a National Coalition Government.

I should like to compliment Deputy Briscoe on his stout defence of the Government. He did his best and we will bear in mind his advice about the traditional faith of Fianna Fáil supporters. The Government appear to have given up the struggle to contain rising prices, as one can judge from the price situation in the last few months. The November to November figures will show an inflation rate for Ireland in excess of 15 per cent and in the last three months we have all the items that concern ordinary people—food, clothing, fuel, lighting, footwear and transport—increased in price. Coal, a fuel which is now so extraordinarily important in view of the increase in the price of oil, was increased in price last week and I presume that will be added to in the coming months because the application from the company concerned was for a 20 per cent increase. The company was granted an increase of 7 per cent and it can be woefully assumed that a further increase will be sought by Coal Distributors Limited in the coming months. Presumably, we can sadly look forward to artificial shortages of coal while that company awaits further increases from the National Prices Commission. The real world keeps breaking in on the arguments posed in the debate by the defenders of the Government.

The Minister for Economic Planning and Development last week expressed surprise that we should be discussing this trifling matter once more, but there may be further occasions when we must warn him from these benches as the prices situation worsens. The phasing out of food subsidies was decided upon by the Government because, as they claimed, the inflation rate was dropping. In those circumstances the Minister for Economic Planning and Development came forward to explain that now that the days of inflation were behind us it behoved the Government to remove those food subsidies because they were no longer necessary. However, this situation has changed. Our claim is that the Government, since their expectation that inflation was dropping is no longer tenable, should at least postpone the phasing out of the remaining food subsidies.

Our inflation rate is now inexorably rising. We are falling behind in the antiinflation league of the EEC states. I think we stand about seventh in that league. Annualised our rate of price increase stands at 15.5 per cent in the six months to August. Those are the figures produced by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Over the rest of the Community the rate of inflation is 11.4 per cent. Therefore we can see that our position in combating inflation amongst the other European states is a poor one.

Our request to the Government is that this rapid increase in the consumer price index should naturally cause the Government to revise their declared policy of phasing out the remaining food subsidies. There are approximately 14,000 people claiming unemployment benefit, and they have children dependent on them. There are 17,000 claiming unemployment assistance who also have children dependent on them. These families, we believe, who are in the low income bracket spend a staggering 35 per cent of their weekly income on food. That means that a family with three children on £50 average weekly income will spend something like £18 per week on milk, cheese, bread, butter and sugar, some of the staple family food items which have increased in price over recent weeks.

It is in those circumstances—not for the purpose of having just another political exchange here in this House—that this party put down this motion in an effort to put the case to the Government and especially to the Minister for Economic Planning and Development who has expressed himself before now as of the opinion that if the inflation rate turned around adversely of course the Government would consider revision of their policy of phasing out remaining food subsidies. Surely that time has come now; surely that revision of their stated intention to phase out the remaining food subsidies should be engaged in.

I call on the Government here this evening to state clearly their intentions in respect of the remaining food subsidies. Our economy has returned to double digit inflation. Clearly the expectations which the Government held in January that our rate of inflation would continue to decline is no longer tenable. It is in these circumstances we ask the Government, through this motion, to revise their intentions.

It was strange that in his contribution to this debate the Minister for Economic Planning and Development should actually bring forward the recent increase of £1 to explain the good works of this Government, how well spent was this money, and to make the case that, since the phasing out of food subsidies benefited rich and poor alike, it was better, as he put it, to help the most needy rather than continue to assist the process of holding down food prices. That was the essential argument and he was certainly selective in the area he put forward for argument. I make the point here that it would undoubtedly help those people who have been paying more for food over the past few months, it would have assisted them—and this is beyond argument—had the food subsidies been retained. It is true that those other than the very poor would have benefited as well; I do not deny that. But this argument that more than the poor would benefit from the maintainance of the food subsidies, strangely enough, did not hold when the Minister for Economic Planning and Development came into the House to defend the removal of capital taxes; only the rich benefited there. Yet we did not find any suggestion from the Minister that we should not proceed to give those benefits to the rich or that we should alter the policy of phasing out those taxes. They benefited only the rich. Yet the Government insisted on proceeding to give this benefit to the very wealthiest in our community.

There is a good deal of special pleading in the Government's case in relation to all of this. I do not think it does any of the defenders of the removal of the food subsidies any good at all to repeat those kinds of arguments. The defence has been put here in this debate that the rate of increase of food prices in the latter part of this year has not been as extreme as in the earlier part. It would be very difficult indeed for food prices do maintain the kind of rapid increase they maintained earlier this year in the latter part of the year. They were record high earlier this year. It is not in the least peculiar that they should not maintain that rate in the latter part of the year. But there is no getting away from the argument that maintenance of food subsidies would have assisted people who find ends very hard indeed to meet in the matter of food. The argument has been made here repeatedly—and no one denies it—that there is a very high proportion of the budget of families on the low income scale, those on £40 a week, below £50 a week, spent on the purchase of food. There is no point in coming to such a man and his family and saying: have comfort, have consolation, the rate of price increase in food in the latter part of this year is not as bad as it has been; it will not uphold the record level it held in the earlier part of this year. That is no consolation at all to that man as he sees the price of margarine go up 2p a half pound again in October, as he sees the price of coal continuing to go up—and the poor, like the rich, must use coal, must have heat, must have lighting. Indeed they received information today about further increased charges on the part of the ESB. What is the point?

Is the Deputy proposing a subsidy on energy as well?

I am explaining some facts of the real world to the Minister for Economic Planning and Development, who protects his case behind these specious arguments that things will not be as bad as they were three months ago for the next three months, arguments from the Minister for Economic Planning and Development who apparently sees the great crime in maintaining food subsidies that those who are not exactly on the breadline would also benefit. I am pointing out the inconsistency of his case in that he and his Cabinet abolished wealth tax. When the benefits of that abolition applied solely to the rich what is the point in coming in here and using those kinds of silly arguments? Of course, the Minister for Economic Planning and Development is one of these people fated in politics to show themselves obdurately unaware of the facts of the real world—the real world of rising bus fares, rocketing house prices, coal prices that never seem to stand still, the rate of increase in food prices. You make a defence for food price increases by saying: "Ah, but it is not as bad as it was in May." These are the arguments of someone with his feet not really on the ground. He reminds me of Bunsen Honeydew on the Muppet Show. I do not know if the Minister has time from his industry of producing these strange defences of price increases to look at that programme now and again, but Bunsen Honeydew is the professor on the Muppet Show who operates on and gives strange remedies to his patients. It does not seem to work; they never recover. I suppose the point could be made that it is not really a fair analogy because at least the Muppet Show is entertaining. Of course this is in a sense a Muppet Cabinet.

I am glad to hear that the Deputy is able to conduct such serious research——

The Muppet Show is entertaining and this is in a sense a Muppet Cabinet. At least it is entertaining and no damage is done to anyone who looks at that programme. But unfortunately we must all live with this Muppet Cabinet, their decisions and what they do. At any rate I am making the point that the Minister for Economic Planning and Development, coming in and making the defence, as he did in his contribution here last week, that the maintenance of the food subsidies was inequitable because it would benefit all of the population, it was not an appropriate measure; this was one of the defences——

Would the Deputy please quote me accurately? I made the very accurate claim that for any given amount of money you did more to help the needy—the people mentioned in the motion—by giving them an increase in social welfare benefits than by having a general food subsidy. Despite their very flamboyant language they have not made the slightest effort——

I am making the point that unemployed men on assistance with three children——

(Cavan-Monaghan): The Minister did not think that way in June 1977 when he promised to give better subsidies when Fianna Fáil were returned to office.

Deputy O'Leary is in possession.

An unemployed man on assistance with three children receives at the moment the princely sum of £36.55 per week or if paying stamps, with a similar number of children, he receives £42.10 a week. It is clear from the household surveys done that a great proportion of that man's budget is spent on food. Nobody argues against that in this debate. In these circumstances it is clear that the decision to continue the phasing-out programme for the food subsidies kicks directly that man's standard of living. It does the same to everybody else's standard of living but it hits his most grievously of all. If the only obstacle preventing the Minister from dealing with the very real problems of this man was that the subsidies benefited all alike, he could have, by some means, assisted that man's income further. He did not do so.

We have now rising inflation—15 per cent to November. The situation in relation to inflation is totally different from what it was in 1977. Now it is increasing and the Government do not appear to have the answers. The last speaker said that perhaps we would always have rising prices. This is the band who won that stunning election victory. They had the answers to rising prices. They do not appear to have them now. The wicked oil sheiks are responsible. It is always somebody else. Today the Minister for Finance said that we did not get sufficient money in this year from tax because of the postmen. They were responsible for this. It was not the fake budget produced earlier this year or the faked receipts of revenue that were responsible. It was not the overestimation of revenue. It was the wicked postmen who were on strike for seven or eight months. It was chiefly the responsibility of a Minister who could not negotiate with them or decide how the matter could be settled. That it was the responsibility of no-one was the constant story of this Government.

But there is a political fact of life. Our administration suffered because there was inflation over our period. We believed that there was some defence for that situation because of external factors. The Opposition at that time denied that there was such a defence. They denied that a three-quarter increase took place in energy prices in the autumn of 1973. They denied all these things. At any rate, whether we liked it or not, the electorate took the old-fashioned view that the Government who claimed to govern the country were responsible for the rate of inflation of the country. No amount of argument in this House trying to shuffle off the blame elsewhere will rid this Government of the kind of feeling growing amongst the public that as a Government they are not capable of containing prices, that they are doing very little about them and are showing themselves unaware of the real effects of rising prices. Those real effects cannot be disguised by saying that it is not quite as bad at this time of the year as it was some months ago. There is no cure in the offing for our 15 per cent rate of inflation, as far as we can see.

The defence put forward in this debate is that there was a £1 increase in the welfare categories in October. How much will that £1 increase purchase in terms of more heat or food? What will it do to increase the old age pension of a person who wants to buy an extra pair of shoes? There has been a very big increase in the price of footwear and clothing. There are constant increases in the price of heat and lighting. We hear no answer to these real problems except that things will improve in the by-and-by.

We must be seriously concerned, and we were correct in bringing forward this motion in an effort to face this administration with the kind of experience being felt at present by ordinary people who must pay for the increased bus fares, who must go out and buy the turf briquettes, wherever they can get them, at an increased price. These are the people who see constantly the kind of increases registered all around the country and apparently there is no solution and no comfort. In January we put down a motion similar to this and we deplored then the decision of the Government to phase out subsidies. We said then that we believed that the decision would increase the price of butter by 8p per lb., milk by 2p per pint and flour by 3p per kg. We said that all these effects would follow, and they did. We pointed out then that the policy would have an adverse inflationary effect on the living standards of the poor, the elderly, the unemployed and those with large families. In January our rate of inflation was 7.6 per cent. Today it is more than double that rate and rising.

One does not know when the next stage in the phasing out of food subsidies will be. Last year it occurred before the budget. No one was really responsible for it, it just happened. By contrast the budget was made to appear a little better than it was really. Nobody knows on what date, what late Friday evening or what holiday eve the next phase in getting rid of the remaining food subsidies will occur, but the Government this evening have an opportunity to give some good news to the country of their intentions in relation to the remaining food subsidies. As they have stated, they could now, without dishonour, say that since the rise in inflation is greater than anticipated in January they do not intend to phase out the remaining subsidies. That would be consistent with previous statements and it is what they should say here this evening. We would be the very first to congratulate them on their consistency in this decision.

Our motion relates to our concern for what is happening in the outside world. With our rate of inflation undoubtedly those thousands of families in the social welfare and large family categories, a great proportion of whose budgets are spent on food, would be assisted by a decision not to continue with the phasing out of the remaining food subsidies. The inflation rate earlier this year was 7.6 per cent. Now all reputable authorities expect it to be in excess of 15 per cent. The economy is back firmly into double digit inflation. Increases in the price of electricity have been announced and an increase in the price of coal is probably in the offing. No one knows really about the oil situation, that continues to be uncertain. Milk prices have increased. The Government who themselves had done all in their power to dam back and control inflation at home could turn to the electorate and, with at least an appearance of justice, say: "Many of these factors are beyond our control". However, that cannot be said by this Administration who by their own deliberate domestic policy phased out food subsidies. In their own publication is listed their part in the rising inflation that has been a feature of this economy in 1979. The Economic Review and Outlook Summer, 1979 on page 15 states:

In early 1979, certain special factors, such as the reductions in food subsidies, indirect tax increases and the unusually high seasonal increase in certain food items due to severe weather conditions contributed to a deterioration in the inflation rate.

Actions of this Government contributed in no small measure to the deteriorating inflation rate which has been such a sad feature of our economy this year. The spokesman of such a Government cannot come in here with clean hands and say that there are so many external factors over which they have no control and that they have done the best they could to hold back inflation. They have not. Their own domestic policies have contributed to rising inflation. Therefore, it is not excessive or unfair for an Opposition to demand at this time of rising inflation that they declare unequivocally what their future intentions are in relation to phasing out the remaining food subsidies. From their own point of view it might be the best time to announce their decision. Defending themselves behind such arguments as, "If we were to maintain food subsidies the wealthy would benefit just as much as the poor" is specious coming from an administration who themselves unilaterally have abolished capital gains taxes from which action only the wealthy could benefit. The whole point of maintaining food subsidies was that if such did benefit all concerned, if it did benefit sections who were not exactly on the bread line, the major assistance it offered was given directly to those who spent the biggest proportion of their family budget on food. That meant it went to the very worst off, the people with large families, those whom it is difficult to assist by normal means. Surveys show that the largest families are those with the lowest incomes. The food subsidies went to assist those families. In conditions of rising inflation it would seem to be on very sound grounds that the subsidies should be maintained. Whatever factual foundation could be given to the argument earlier this year that the inflation rate was dropping and that food subsidies were not necessary, although one might at that stage have disagreed with that prognosis, that cannot be maintained at this point.

I do not know what the estimate in the Government's mind is for the inflation rate in 1980. Certainly the omens do not look good and it does not seem to me that we can come back from double digit inflation in 1980. It will continue to be a fact of life that in 1980 the proportion of the budget of the lower income families which is spent on food will continue to be high. Whilst we may be in the seasonal part of the year, when food prices do not maintain a very high profile, the fact is that in the coming winter months that will obviously be changed. On grounds of what we may forecast is in the economy, on grounds of justice, there does not appear to me to be any really sound argument which can be put forward by members of the Government against the terms of our motion. No reputable argument can be put forward that we are in a period of falling inflation. The inflation rate is worsening and the actions of the Government have contributed to that.

The living standards of the families concerned will be adversely affected by the removal of the remaining food subsidies and there do not appear to be any good grounds for proceeding with a policy which could not be adequately defended on social justice grounds earlier this year and no valid arguments can now be put forward for a continuation of that policy at this time. That is why in our motion we call on the Government to clarify their intentions in regard to the remaining food subsidies. Even if the inflation rate continues to worsen the Government by reversing the policy of phasing out the food subsidies can at least constructively contribute to holding down the impact of rising prices on the budgets of the most needy families. The Government have the power to do that. I call on them tonight to do it because the inflation situation no longer can give them sufficient defence for a policy which was mistaken in the first place and which cannot be defended on any grounds of equity at this point.

I rise to support the amendment which reads:

To delete all words after "aware of" and substitute "the difficulties facing the economy both at the national and international levels, endorses the policies of the Government to promote social and economic progress, including its policy to phase out food subsidies in order to make additional funds available for productive investment while protecting the interests of the less-privileged through the medium of increased social welfare payments."

When the Opposition made their case they gave no credit to the Government for making funds available for productive investment or how successful their programme has been over the last few years. They must all agree that the interests of the less privileged people were protected by social welfare payments.

Reference was made tonight to the number of jobs secured over the last few years when the Government have had the greatest record in that regard over any other Government. The Government's policies have been successful even though they had to face many difficulties at national and international level. I believe that most people will recognise that food subsidies are a very blunt instrument as far as a social policy is concerned. We have only to compare the increases given in social welfare this year with the reduction in food subsidies. The reduction in food subsidies last The reduction in food subsidies last January resulted in an increase of about 31p per week in the cost of food to a household with an income of under £50 a week and saved the Government £22 million. In the budget of last February old-age pensioners got an increase of £2.55 a week and in October they got a further £1, giving a total for the year of £3.55.

The Government by switching the emphasis from food subsidies to additional social welfare benefits have helped families and individuals. If one examines the social welfare benefits for the previous year one finds that there has been an increase of between 20 per cent to 24 per cent. If one examines the rates of inflation in relation to increases in food prices from November 1978 to November 1979 one finds this is in the region of 13 per cent. It is very hard to understand how the last speaker could claim the hardships heaped on the people were caused by the withdrawal of food subsidies. He spoke about the action of the Government and said that we claimed that the wealthy would benefit by food subsidies. The wealthy must benefit by food subsidies. Let us take a family where the wage earner earns around £50 a week. Proportionately, in terms of food subsidies that man's family are not benefiting to the same extent as would the family of a man whose income was in the region of £150 per week.

(Cavan-Monaghan): The answer to that is that the first family are consuming less sirloin steak but more bread, butter and milk than are the other family.

It is accepted that the lower income household—the household with an income of £50 per week or less—are only benefiting to the extent of about 16 per cent of the subsidies and that most of the benefit from the food subsidies is derived by the higher income families. Admittedly, sirloin steaks were not subsidised at any time but Deputy Fitzpatrick must accept that families who buy sirloin steaks also buy bread, butter and milk and buy these commodities in larger quantities than is the case of the family in the lower income group.

Deputy O'Leary, too, expressed concern about the larger families but in terms of the national understanding these families are being helped. It would be difficult to put forward a good argument for indiscriminate food subsidies vis-á-vis the advantages of social welfare payments and the Government have not reneged on their duty in terms of providing for increased social welfare benefits.

On the question of productive investment, I think Deputy O'Leary must agree that the moneys that have been channelled into this activity have been well justified. An examination of the effects of the IDA activity will indicate that this was one sphere in which productive investment has been shown to great advantage. Only yesterday in my area there was an IDA announcement of a proposal to set up structure unit factories even in small- and medium-sized towns. This is another indication of the thinking behind the Government policy in terms of production and the provision of employment generally.

None of us welcomes increased food prices, but the Government are making every effort to ensure that any increase as a result of the change in subsidies will have the least possible effect, especially for the less well off. I am confident that overall this year there is an increase in the standard of living of the lower paid.

The debate has been illuminating in so far as there has not been any indication so far of the change of strategy in the minds of the Government. One would have thought that after about two-and-a-half years in office the Government would have initiated a serious examination of the extent to which transfer payments operated. This is a fascinating subject, but apart from some working documents during the years within the Department of Finance —and these are now somewhat dated—and apart from some other working documents that emanated in the 1973-76 period in the Department of Social Welfare, in terms largely of reaction to the Department of Finance, there has not been any real work done in Irish society on the question of the transfer of payments and the effects of subsidies. Admittedly, the NESC have commissioned work and have issued some useful publications on this question; but, again, in terms of the last general election these are rather dated because since then we have had a whole series of new subsidies. There was subsidisation in terms of foregone revenue as a result of various taxation elements. There were increased subsidies for CIE in the intervening period and these were of the order of £15 million per year.

In addition, there have been other areas of massive subsidy in terms of the loss of Exchequer revenue. For example, there was the increased subsidies in respect of married persons at work vis-à-vis the income tax system. These relate largely to married couples rather than to married persons at work. There were also massive subsidies in terms of the elimination of rates on domestic dwellings and of the abolition of car tax on private motor vehicles. Therefore, this area has changed dramatically and, consequently, one would hope that the Government and indeed the Department of Economic Planning and Development would initiate a major investigatory, objective and rational analysis of the role of subsidies in our society.

I remember arguing this matter with Deputy Tully, when he was Minister, in relation to the subsidy we initiated concerning tenant purchasers and when we sold tenant purchase houses at £600 or £700 in accordance with the relevant local authority scheme. There have been various other subsidies, too, whether in respect of house mortgage or in terms of pensions premiums in respect of which there have been income tax subsidies. There has been an element of tax subsidy on ordinary overdraft interest. Overall the area is one of major concern to economists and in particular to the Minister for Finance. In the sphere of agriculture there is the question of the operation of massive transferred payments and of the role of subsidies. Perhaps that is the area which is worthy of the greatest examination and it is not only the area of rates remission, of farm modernisation or of the rural dole but the whole area of the massive role of subsidies within agriculture.

However, what we are talking of tonight is not one of these elements which cost not just a miserly £22 million or so in terms of subsidies nor are we talking of other subsidies, even those in relation to higher education grants, because relative to all of these food subsidies are miniscule. Therefore, what has irritated profoundly the Labour Party and has upset those whom I would regard as serious politicians, is that we find the area of subsidisation attacked on a particularly narrow and unnecessary front. We find the searchlight being beamed on a specific area, an area which is perhaps the least worthy of such examination in terms of relative waste or relative use and so on.

What was particularly infuriating to many Deputies on this side of the House relative to that was that Fianna Fáil went into the last election on the absolutely clear public opinion appreciation that there was going to be no change in food subsidies. When I was discussing the matter with Deputy Fitzpatrick from Fine Gael this evening he brought to my attention a furore at that time. I was never able to track down the date of the particular newspaper cutting but Deputy Fitzpatrick has loaned it to me for the conclusion of this debate. It is a statement made by the current Minister for Agriculture in the Evening Herald of 8 June 1977. Deputy Gibbons was Fianna Fáil spokesman for Agriculture then. It reads:

Fianna Fáil today pledged that it will increase the present level of subsidy on butter, cheese, milk and bread if it regains power in the General Election. Agriculture spokesman, Jim Gibbons, said that existing Government expenditure of £60 million was inadequate. In a heated debate on RTE radio with Agriculture Minister, Mark Clinton, Mr. Gibbons said that it should be possible to provide substantially bigger subsidies as the agriculture industry continues to develop but he did not specify where the money would come from. Mr. Clinton hotly rejected Mr. Gibbons' proposals as another product of the Fianna Fáil promise factory and pointed out that previous Fianna Fáil administrations had twice removed the subsidies.

Here we have a fact of life. I met it going around the constituency I represent, as Deputy O'Donoghue and Deputy David Andrews are well aware. I did not meet on the doorsteps of the Dún Laoghaire constituency in the last election one single individual—I got it in the neck from quite a few in terms of reaction—who said to me if we vote for Fianna Fáil they will take away food subsidies. The reverse was the impression that was created. We have the quotation from the Evening Herald, which at the time was not denied. The £60 million of two-and-a-half years ago in terms of inflation has been a constant price figure. Relative to total Government expenditure, £60 million is probably worth something in the region of £40 million to £45 million. Of course, £22 million of it has been slashed under the abolition of subsidies. I do not know where the rationale comes from in relation to the decision of the Government on this aspect. I am bemused that the Government should have adopted a policy of this nature. I would have thought that any serious individual would have said to himself that it would not do those with real wealth in our community any harm to pay 1 per cent or 2 per cent of taxation on their wealth in order to continue subsidies.

Last week I put down a question to the Minister for Finance. I asked him the total value of the assessment for wealth tax for the period 5 April 1977. It was really illuminating. I asked him the value of holdings held outside the State, the value of agricultural land, the value of stocks and shares and other forms of property in the total value and the number of individuals assessed. It brought home to me the people who ran this country in June and July in the run up to the election and the people who put their financial muscle behind the Fianna Fáil Party and the question came home to me as having great relevance. The Minister for Finance said on 17 October that the assessment of the Minister for Finance on 5 April 1977 was that approximately 6,500 people had been assessed for £1,313,596,862.

Approximately £1.3 billion.

The number of assessed persons as of that date was 4,399. The number of discretionary trusts was 2,300 and the number of private non-trading companies was 2,800. The total was 9,600. There was the important rider that we all know about, that some persons occurred twice or three times in the total of individuals, discretionary trusts and non-trading companies. Supposing the Minister had decided that to pay for food subsidies we should put 2 per cent tax per annum on £1.3 billion assessed on those individuals, a miniscule 2 per cent, there would be £26 million income per annum which would more than pay for the abolition of food subsidies. But no. The most influential group of people in our society went berserk in 1975 and 1976. Is it any wonder that there was a special room set up in the Burlington Hotel for the Fianna Fáil Party to meet them and obtain their contributions for the general election? These were the realities of life. The Coalition were kicked out because they attempted to suggest to people that they should pay a small percentage of their annual income to afford such elementary things as food subsidies. At that time I predicted that the chickens would come home to roost and in many ways they have.

We now have a situation where this week we have an increase of 10 per cent in the price of electricity. My understanding is that something in the region of 16 per cent plus 2½ per cent fuel variation was recommended to the Government and the Government decided they should sanction 10 per cent. The rest will come after the byelection. Before Christmas there will be another dollop of ESB charges. I have no doubt about that. I understand the Government cannot make up their mind whether to sanction an increase this week or not of 2p per pound on butter. I challenge the Government on that issue. I expect it will be announced next Friday night about 9 o'clock when Deputy Enright and I have gone home. The comment will say—not the Minister, he has nothing to do with these things—that the National Prices Commission have announced it and the Minister in a footnote has sanctioned it, needless to remark.

It has not really dawned on the Government that, if a housewife walks down the street and buys a loaf of bread and a pound of butter, it costs £1. That does not hit the consciousness of some Fianna Fáil Deputies. That is what an old age pensioner in Blackrock has to pay. If food subsidies had been on and if the Government had kept down the price of stable commodities, the pensioner would be saved 10p or 12p over the period of three years with the development of the subsidies in those areas.

The Government should seriously examine the role of subsidies in our society. It is a difficult, complex and politically unrewarding area. There is no joy in it for any of us. I concede sympathy to any Minister trying to introduce rationalisation in terms of subsidies. I suggest to the Government that they have been caught up in a school of economics—and there are more than Deputy O'Donoghue involved in it—who simply hold that social subsidies are a distortion of the market economy situation and that they destroy the free functioning of the market economy. They pick on an item and unfortunately it was food subsidies. The empty subsidy philosophy which is growing in Irish society has to be opposed in the national interest. There are better ways and the Minister, Deputy O'Donoghue, has undoubted competence in that field. He must have second thoughts on the situation and I hope these will manifest themselves in next year's budget. In the interim period, we remind the Government that we are profoundly unhappy about the position.

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 58; Níl, 19.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Kit.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Cogan, Barry.
  • Colley, George.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Farrell, Joe.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Dublin South-Central).
  • Fitzsimons, James N.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Gallagher, Dennis.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gibbons, Jim.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Keegan, Seán.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Killeen, Tim.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Morley, P. J.
  • Murphy, Ciarán P.
  • Nolan, Tom.
  • O'Connor, Timothy C.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael J.

Níl

  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • FitzGerald, Garrett.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan-Monaghan).
  • Kelly, John.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • Lipper, Mick.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Quinn, Ruairi.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Treacy, Seán.
  • Tully, James.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Woods and Briscoe; Níl, Deputies B. Desmond and L'Estrange.
Amendment agreed to.
Motion, as amended, agreed to.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.50 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 24th October 1979.
Barr
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