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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 13 Nov 1979

Vol. 316 No. 9

Private Members' Business. - School Textbooks: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann criticises the Minister for Education for failing to institute a review of the financing, publishing and distribution problems associated with the provision of school textbooks, in view of the widespread public dissatisfaction with the present system.

It will be evident by now that every September, as inevitably as death and taxes, we see photographs in the daily newspapers, and particularly in the city evening newspapers, showing the incredible queues which exist outside bookshops selling new and secondhand school books. It is a hardy annual, and it would be a laughing matter if it were not so serious. The queues, however, dramatic and all as they are, are no more than the outer-sign of the malaise of a system which has got creakier and creakier over the years and which cannot by any stretch of the imagination be said to measure up to the needs of the modern age.

Books are as essential to learning as air is to breathing, virtually. This is especially true in our schools system which places a very high premium still on book learning, on academic qualities and on academic education. Allegedly we have a system of free primary education and free post-primary education. The right to free primary education is guaranteed by our Constitution. The right to free post-primary education, although not guaranteed by the Constitution certainly after the age of 15 years, is acknowledged in practice and has been by successive Governments. Yet, the fact is that many parents are now paying more for school books than ever they paid in fees before the fees were abolished at post-primary level at any rate.

It is an open secret that in many cases these fees are being replaced by voluntary contributions which sting the parents' pockets no less severely. That is by the way and I do not propose to go into that area during this debate. If we accept that education at certain levels ought to be free, if we accept that books are an essential ingredient in education at the very least we should be substantially more generous in terms of our provision of books than either of the schemes presided over by this administration. Of course, these schemes were not launched by this administration. They were launched by a previous administration and have been continued by several administrations.

When I call for criticism of the Minister on this score it is more precisely because we would have thought, in the light of many of his statements about the importance of education and the importance of primary education in particular, that we would have seen far more dramatic progress in this field than we have seen to date.

It is obvious, of course, that the queues outside Greene's bookshop, not a couple of hundred yards from here, or any other bookshop, are not a matter directly amenable to ministerial control. I would not hold the Minister to ransom for not abolishing them. Some of the problems associated with the distribution and provision of school textbooks arise from human nature. Sometimes parents, sometimes pupils, even though provided with book lists well in advance, do not actually supply themselves with the books until the term actually starts. We cannot blame the Minister for that. But there are other areas in which he has responsibility and I propose to deal with these in my address. Quite apart from that, it is now obvious from the degree of public disgruntlement which greets the opening of the school year every September, particularly in relation to school books, that people are dissatisfied with the present system. Either they do not know how to work it properly, they are not being shown how or they are not being told where responsibility lies. This is why we have put down this motion asking the Minister to institute a review. On an earlier occasion the Minister chided me when I put down another motion looking for money on the grounds that it was easy—as indeed it is, and traditional—for an Opposition to spend the Government's petty cash, but in this motion all we ask for is a review which hopefully would be carried out in public and which by a widespread dissemination of the problems facing anybody involved in the distribution, sale or prescription of school textbooks might, as well as improving the system, spread knowledge among the public of how that system works.

I put down a question today asking the Minister for Education if he would institute such a review. The reply I go to Question No. 265 on today's Order Paper said: "My Department are fully informed in relation to this matter and a formal review of the arrangements is not considered necessary." I do not think the answer could be shorter if the Minister had tried to write a shorter one—a mere two lines on the official answer sheet, dismissive in tone and totally unhelpful in character. The Minister may be satisfied that he knows all he needs to know, that no formal review of the arrangements is considered necessary, but if he had been knocking on doors—and no doubt he was, in some areas in County Cork at least in the last few weeks—he would certainly have known that people are not satisfied. My own experience while canvassing in that by-election was that at any door when I announced myself as Labour Party spokesman on Education the odds were about four or five to one that somebody would bring up the school books question. It was not prompted; I did not ask if they were satisfied with the present system. As soon as they heard the word "education" they reached for the gun, in this case school books. Certainly, the Minister has responsibility in this matter and it is not a responsibility that can be discharged by fairly bland words in answer to a Dáil question.

I turn now to the facts as I understand them to support my contention that not only is a review necessary but that a particular aspect of the review, that involving the financing of the school textbook system, is particularly in need of review. To do this I propose to review the history both at primary and post-primary level of the provision of free school books under the free school books scheme. I also propose to examine the working of the scheme. Here again is another area where a review is overdue. If we look at the Estimates for the past couple of years we see a truly extraordinary situation for any administration which has prided itself on its contribution to education in general and in particular to primary education.

In 1977, when the Minister came into office, £258,000 was provided in the Estimate for the free primary school books scheme. The Minister and his predecessor between them managed to spend £256,000, and one may say that is fair enough. What happened in 1978? All that the Minister for Education could wangle out of the Minister for Finance was a mere £260,000, only £2,000 more than in the previous year, a derisory increase of .77 per cent. This was at a time when even under this much-lauded Fianna Fáil administration the consumer price index was going up by 7.6 per cent, ten times as fast as the provision for free primary school books. The Minister spent only £238,000 or to be exact £238,193. In the first full year of Fianna Fáil Government, in his first full year as Minister for Education, the Minister spent almost £20,000 less than was spent in the previous year when he had the benefit of a Coalition budget from a Minister and an administration which he has never been slow to deride.

The amount provided in the Estimates for 1978 was £270,000, an increase on the previous year of 3.85 per cent. Comparing that with what is likely to happen with inflation in the current year—we have not yet got all the figures but it is almost certain that inflation will be somewhere between 12 and 14 per cent—we are talking about an extra allocation of 3.85 per cent for the free school books scheme in a year when inflation is running at four times that figure. We must seriously question our priorities in this regard. We cannot stop there because the Department of Education have told us, if I do not get the figures wrong, that the actual amount spent so far this year is approximately £354,500 on the primary school books scheme. This is substantially in excess of the Estimate and we must look at it coolly and calmly. It is a matter for approval that more money should be spent in this important area than is allowed for in the Estimates but we must ask how does it compare with what was spent previously and does it match the real need of the situation. When we compare it with what was spent previously we find that the apparent jump is not so great. The amount of money actually spent on free school books in 1977 was £256,000. If we ask what this sum should be increase by, given the approximately 33? per cent inflation that has taken place since then, we come out with a figure very close to this £350,500 actually spent since the beginning of this year.

Clearly, what has happened is that the Minister and the Government, impelled by a belated but nonetheless worthy sense of the importance of this area of expenditure and probably also by the undertakings they gave in the national understanding, have decided to increase the amount spent on primary school books. But we would require more proof than we have that the amount spent represents any substantial increase in real terms over the amount spent in 1977. If the Minister has such proof I hope he will give it to the House. I stress the words "real terms". We must allow for inflation and everything else and in the case of inflation let us remember that the cost of school books is a particular component of the CPI that in some regards may run substantially ahead of the average rate of the increase in prices. This is because school books are generally printed on paper and the cost of paper in the last few years has gone up not by 33? per cent but by 100 per cent. One would expect a very substantial increase in real terms on the basis of the ordinary level of inflation before one would even begin to be satisfied that a substantial increase had taken place in the value of the scheme to the pupils.

A thorough review of the operation of the scheme is long overdue. The present scheme, as I understand it, unless it has been altered since the Estimates were published, allows a grant to each school at the rate of approximately £3 per child from first class to sixth class up to a maximum of 25 per cent of the total enrolment in the school. All schemes must start somewhere, but this scheme embodied so much of the old poor law mentality that it is difficult to defend it at this time. It puts the principal teacher, whose job it is to administer it, in an extremely invidious position. He must decide subject to the 25 per cent guideline how many pupils are needy. If he concludes that 35, 40, 45 or 50 per cent of the pupils are needy, it is tough luck: I presume the 25 per cent cut-off still applies. The maximum amount of the grant the school can get is so much per child in relation to the percentage of the school roll notified to the Department as being in need. The principal then has to parcel out that money on the basis of the needs, as he sees them, of the individual pupils.

I have never aspired to the job of being a principal teacher in any sort of school although I imagine it is a very rewarding job for people whose bent lies in that, direction, but if I were the principal teacher of a school the one job that would be most repellant to me would be that of operating an effective means test on my pupils. Many principal teachers do this job with a tact and a discretion above and beyond the call of duty. That is not the point. The point is they should not be asked to do it. It is an invidious and mean thing to ask any professional teacher to do. The other thing is that it applies only to pupils from first to sixth classes. The reason for this is, I presume, that education is not compulsory until first class and is certainly not compulsory for junior and senior infants levels.

There is plenty of evidence that this scheme simply does not match up to the financial needs of the situation, whatever about the invidious distinctions that its operation must inevitably cause. I understand that the major teacher's organisation in this area, the Irish National Teachers' Organisation, have initiated their own inquiry into the cost of school books at primary school level in order to prepare a submission to the Department for an improvement in the present scheme. I do not know whether that submission has yet reached the Department, but I can assure the Minister if it has not, that when it does it will pose very serious problems for the financing of the present scheme. I am informed, for example, that even at infants' level the cost of books can range between £2 and even £5 to £6. In other words, even before the child has gone into the junior school proper, class one, his parents may be spending twice the maximum grant allowed by the Department of Education. Naturally as he goes up in the school, the cost of books increases. At third class level, according to the sample carried out by the organisation, the cost of primary school books ranges between £8 and £9, up to three times the amount of the maximum grant. At sixth class level, where the work is fairly specialised and intense, the cost of books can range from £13 to £16, almost five times the maximum grant allowed by the Department.

I would be more than grateful if the Minister could explain how any school principal is expected to perform the miracle of the loaves and fishes on this kind of financial allocation. Even at that the situation in the primary school is, to some extent, made better by the fact that even though they have abandoned the idea of having the single textbook per class per year, they do their best to minimise the changeover in texts, subject of course to their evident desire to expose the children to as wide a range of educational materials as possible.

There is another problem in relation to this on the other side and that is that the book producers in their laudable desire to keep the cost of books as low as possible often have to make do with slightly less substantial materials than they would like with the result that the books do not last as long on the secondhand market as they might otherwise do. I think I have said enough on this point to argue very strongly that the question of the organisation and financing of the free book scheme are long overdue for review.

A year or so ago I put down a question asking the Minister for Education what the cost would be of providing free primary school books for every child in the country. At that time I was told that the cost would have been about £4 million. I am sure it is more now but I am sure also that the amount which the Government then handed back to the people who formerly paid wealth tax, when they abolished the wealth tax, is now also very substantially bigger. I make no apology for contrasting the £4 million it would have cost to improve our primary system in this basic regard with the £8 million, £10 million or £12 million which the Government gave back to the people who need it least.

I quote for the Minister's edification a speech by Dr. Birch, Bishop of Ossory, reported in The Irish Times of 1 November 1978 when he queried whether free education, in the commonly acceptable sense of the word, was available.

He asked: "What happens when the parents have few means?" He added: "We have numbered off social classes. I wonder what guarantee of full education social class five, as we call the totally-disadvantaged, has in this respect from the State or most of our schools? There is ample evidence that, for a variety of reasons, they certainly cannot expect the promised equality, no matter what their innate talents may be, and they know it from hard experience."

The Minister never told us whether he considered such a dramatic scheme but if he did many people would thank him for it.

I find it extraordinary that in 1977—at a time when the economy, according to the then Opposition, subsequently the Government, was in ruins and needed Fianna Fáil to get it moving again—we were spending on free primary school books an amount of money which, after adjustment for inflation, is virtually on a par with what the present Minister is spending at a time, according to the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy on the radio last Sunday, when the economy is booming. All those statements cannot be true. Either the economy is not booming or something else is wrong.

In relation to the secondary area, the figures are almost equally surprising. In 1977 £600,000 was provided in the Estimate for free school books for necessitous children at post-primary level. A sum of £628,000 was spent. In 1978, in the first budget to include a specific contribution from this Fianna Fáil Minister for Education, the amount remained static at £600,000. This represented a decrease in real terms. The Minister was not giving more money for this scheme; he was giving less because books cost more. He managed to spend £540 more than the £600,000 allocated. Given the fact that Departments and Ministers sometimes manage to spend less than they are allocated, I suppose this is something to congratulate him for. Certainly it did not bring his spending up to the level needed to keep pace with inflation. In 1979, the current year, the Estimate increase is £636,000. In other words, in 1979 the estimate for free school books for primary school children has gone up by 6 per cent over 1978 where inflation is expected to run at at least double that figure. I should point out that in using a figure for 1979 inflation I am obviously restricted to the first three-quarters of the year but I doubt very much that the final quarter will add very much to it or, even more importantly, subtract anything from it.

At post-primary level the books are even more expensive. I bought books this year for one of my own children in fifth year and I counted myself lucky to get out at £40. This was in a school where the maximum attempt is made to avoid unnecessary changes of books and to pass on books if they can be used a second time.

There seems to be particular problems in relation to certain areas. Set books are prescribed for different subjects and this works reasonably well in modern languages. However, in some areas, such as history, geography and Irish, different books are available and the teacher may select books that he or she particularly likes working with. We must maintain reasonable flexibility in relation to the provision of text books at post primary level. I do not think that any of us wants a grey uniformity in text books, not least because children like reasonably bright well-produced text books and will learn well from them. Mistakes do happen. Teachers may allocate books for the following year and may not be teaching that class in the following year. Their place may be taken by a teacher who does not teach from those books. Parents have given me instances of situations in which books were prescribed and bought and never actually opened from one end of the year to the other. Perhaps this is something the Minister cannot do a lot about, but if he instituted the review we are looking for he could enable responsible parents to ventilate these grievances and could enable teachers and other organisations to explain some of the problems they face and some of the needs that they are experiencing.

One of the aspects of the cost of post-primary school books is VAT. On several occasions I have pressed this Government for action to reduce the level of VAT on school text books and school materials. Time and time again I have been told that under Common Market regulations it is impossible to take VAT completely off text books. This, of course, is an evasion. It is possible to reduce VAT to a zero rate. Although the Common Market is not exactly keen on this procedure, it has been known to wear it from time to time. It would also be possible to at least reduce VAT to the level at which it does not become a penal imposition on learning. Ireland's rate of VAT on books at the moment is the second highest in Europe. If the Minister had the welfare of the education system at heart he would do more than he has done—and I know he has done a bit, so far unsuccessfully—to persuade his colleague the Minister for Finance to do something about it. Unfortunately, the Minister for Finance has shown himself impervious to argument from the Department of Education, who have written to him to ask him to do something about VAT, and from his own party, who at their last Ard Fheis passed a resolution urging him to remove VAT from school books.

The National Federation of Christian Brothers' Schools Parents' Councils tell me that, according to their information, the total VAT collected on books in 1973 was only £699,000. Even on the basis of an increased figure, we must seriously ask the Minister whether he can do something about removing, or at least lessening the impact of, this tax. Now is the time to end the confusion or to at least do something to explain to the people who labour under it, whether teachers, parents or book publishers and distributors, who themselves have to pay the cost of an inefficient system, exactly what can or cannot be done to improve the system. It is no joy to the publishers of textbooks to have to be sending five or six different parcels of books off to a school when one parcel would have done the job far more expeditiously and efficiently.

I believe that some kind of centralised book-purchasing or requisition system, perhaps operated under the aegis of the vocational education committees for all the schools in their area, primary as well as post-primary, might go some of the way towards ending the annual September rush. As well as that the Minister should be organising courses in his Department to enable those teachers who have been given special responsibility for school books in their area to organise the distribution of the books within the schools, to organise the collection and re-use of second-hand books and in general to make the system even more effective and efficient than it is now. Under pressure of finance it is becoming more so, but we should not have to wait before we do anything until books become so expensive that they become virtually out of reach for many parents. We should institute such a review now and we should do it in an open and public way so that the Minister and his officials can explain their difficulties, the teachers can explain their difficulties, and the parents, especially the parents, can air their grievances.

The Minister for Education has put down an amendment to welcome his action in increasing the financial allocation for the free book scheme and his initiative in expanding the publication of textbooks through Irish. By including the question of the publication of textbooks through Irish, he is, of course, dragging in what we would call extraneous matter. This was not what I put down my motion for and it is not why I am critical of the Minister. On the basis of the figures that I have given to the House, I find it hard to believe that he can even begin to stand over the phrase which seeks to welcome his action in increasing the financial allocation for the free book scheme. I have already pointed out that, on the basis of the published figures in the Book of Estimates, no such increases have taken place. On the basis of what has actually been spent—and we have some information as recently as this afternoon to indicate that there may have been a slight increase—there is no indication that it has done any more than keep pace with the rate of inflation since 1977. I doubt very much that people are satisfied with the organisation of the free book scheme and its financing. I should be very surprised if the trade union movement, which has behaved extremely responsibly in this matter in seeking an undertaking from the Government on educational expenditure in the national understanding, will be satisfied with the situation as I have outlined it. That is why I moved this motion on behalf of the Labour Party.

Amendment No. 1 in the name of the Minister for Education:

Tairgim leasú Uimh. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"welcomes the action of the Minister for Education in increasing the financial allocation for the Free Books Scheme and his initiative in expanding the publication of textbooks through Irish."

Ba mhaith liom, ar dtús, a mheabhrú go dtagann praghsanna leabhar scoile faoi bhreithniú Choimisiún Náisiúnta um Phraghsanna. Rinne an Coimisiún staidéar ina leith seo dhá bhliain ó shin agus foilsíodh an toradh i dtuarascáil an Choimisiúin Uimhir 54 de Mhí na Samhna, 1976. Toisc costais dáiliúchán agus foilsithe a bheith ina chuid chúntasach de praghas leabhar scoile do thagair an tuarascáil do na neithe sin chomh maith.

Faoin gcóras atá i bhfeidhm sa tír seo, faigheann an t-oideachas cúnamh ón Stát ach níl sé faoi cheannas an Stáit. Tá cuid mhór saoirse ag scoileanna, mar sin, maidir le roghnú téacs leabhar dá ndaltaí. Cé is moite de théacsanna i nGaeilge a fhoilsíonn an Gúm, is d'foilsitheoirí príobháideacha é téacsanna scoile a chur ar fáil. Is do na foilsitheoirí é, freisin na téacs leabhair a dháileadh amach—nó b'fhéidir gnó do na húdaráis scoile más toil leo bheith páirteach ann.

Braitheann an praghas cuid mhór ar chostais tairgthe an leabhair. Mar a léirigh an Coimisiún um Phraghsanna, tháinig méaduithe móra le blianta beaga anuas ar chostas na n-ábhar a úsáidtear i gclódóireacht leabhar scoile agus i rátaí tuarastail agus pá sa chlódoireacht, sa bhfoilseachán agus sna ceardanna eile a bhaineann leo. Ar ndoigh, bíonn éifeacht ag na méaduithe seo ar an bpraghas a bhíonn ar an leabhar nuair a thagann sé amach. Ach fuair an Coimisiúin amach go bhfuil dearbh-chostais leabhair scoile, ag leibhéal an mheán oideachais, tar éis isliú ar an meán, idir na blianta scoile 1972-73 agus 1976-77. I gcás na dtéacs leabhair doh bhun-oideachas bíonn na harduithe i bpraghas na leabhar scartha ar réimse an-leathan ins an tréimhse chéanna.

Tá liosta ordaithe leabhar ann do na bun-scoileanna agus tá saoirse ag múinteoirí leabhair scoile a phiocadh as an liosta sin de réir mar a oireann le cumas na bpáistí agus do stíl teagaisc na múinteoirí. Chomh fada is a bhaineann le scoileanna den dara leibhéal, is iad na príomh-dhualgais atá ar an Roinn, na siollabais do na scrúdacháin teistiméireachta agus cuid éigin téacsanna dualgais, a leagan síos. Foilsítear mion-eolas chucu seo gach bliain i Rialacha agus Chlár na Meánscol agus cuirtear in iúl do na scoileanna iad trí imlitir bhliantúil a eisítear tuairim is dhá bliana roimh tionól na scrúdachán lena mbaineann siad.

Nuair a tugadh isteach na cursaí atá i bhfeidhm anois sna scoileanna daraleibhéil, deineadh soláthar do réimse an-leathan téacs leabhar agus ábhair léitheoireachta. Ní bhíonn ach céatadán beag de na téacsanna a úsáidtear ag an leibhéal seo ordaithe ag an Roinn. Baineann siad sin, don chuid is mó le teangacha agus leis na hábhair cheoil agus deintear ath-ordú orthu ó bhliain go blian de réir uainíocht trí nó ceithre bliana.

Ba mhaith liom cúpla focail a rá faoi rudaí a dúirt an Teachta nuair a bhí sé ag caint. "Incredible queues" and "dramatic queues" were words used by Deputy Horgan in proposing his motion. I always find that, as language inflates, the less the speaker really has to say about the subject in hand. They get very dramatic but give very few facts. The Deputy complained about an answer to a question on today's Order Paper but he will surely be satisfied that he is getting a longer answer now. Surely he did not expect an answer from the Department of Education that would write tonight's speech for him. I know the Deputy is an industrious man and would not be so lazy as to expect that.

The jennet is a useful animal but he has neither pride of ancestry nor hope of posterity. The economics of the Glenstal school of socialism has not got pride of ancestry and has little hope of posterity or accuracy for that matter. If the Deputy examines the figures that are referred to in that part of my speech in Irish he will find that the price of books is not always related to the CPI, although Deputy Horgan tied them tightly to it. I could tell him, as I mentioned in my speech in Irish, that a textbook in Irish, in English and three textbooks in Mathematics increased by less than half the percentage increases in the CPI over the period 1972-73 to 1979-80. The Deputy will see that the Glenstal school of socialist economics needs a little brushing up on the accuracy and depth of its study.

The House is aware that a new curriculum was introduced into primary schools some years ago. This, as is well known, is child centred rather than subject of teacher centred. The emphasis, as the House knows, is on the development of the child rather than on the subject matter. This has put a strain on the matter of text books. A whole new series of text books had to be prepared to meet the new situation. At second level a notable feature of educational change and expansion since the sixties has been updating of syllabuses and the improvement of pedagogics. New teaching resources, including new text books, were needed in order to cope with the contemporary explosion of knowledge and also to bring teaching methodologies into line with advances in educational psychology. There were, for instance, changes in the nature, scope and orientation of whole subjects, rapid increases in sheer volume of knowledge and extraordinary developments in science and technology. Thus, when syllabus committees began the process of a continuing review of courses, they looked to the educational publishers to produce the textbooks needed to service the new courses, and the publishers responded with a range of new text tooks which in many ways were a striking advance on anything available to Irish schools in the past.

Another factor in the situation is the concerted effort which has been made by educationalists and publishers to enhance the value of the text book as an aid to learning. Twenty years ago many of our text books were drab in appearance, dull at times in style, and oftentimes the contents did not keep up to date. Today they are well up to international standards. It should not be forgotten that today children are visually more sophisticated and would hardly tolerate dull teaching and teaching materials.

The increased cost of text books is partly due to inflation but also affected by the fact that for educational reasons text books have been enormously improved in content, appearance and variety, particularly in expression, colour and so on. While this makes the process of learning more effective, it also, unfortunately, tends to make the books more expensive.

I am convinced that parents as a rule recognise that money spent on school books gives a good return in satisfaction and progress for their children. Nevertheless, I am very much aware that for some low income families the cost of school books and requisites is a severe burden. Under special schemes my Department make grants available to give financial help to those families most in need. These schemes are administered through the school authorities thus ensuring that administrative costs are kept to the very minimum. In the current financial year the rate of grant for necessitous pupils in national schools has been increased by 50 per cent. I want to repeat that for the benefit of the House—having listened to the caterwauling form Deputy Horgan—the grant has been increased this year by 50 per cent and the provision for the schemes at second level shows an increase of over 30 per cent on the 1978 allocation. The total amount provided in the Estimates for both levels of education amounts to almost £1.5 million.

I should like to put on the record of the House that no increase in the rate of grant was made between 1974, mark you, and 1979. If Deputy Horgan, who is a sophisticated commentator on educational matters made an appeal in Seanad Éireann about this problem at any time from 1974 to 1977 I should like to know about it, considering that no increase in the rate was given from 1974 until it was increased by 50 per cent by me this year for primary schools and over 30 per cent for post-primary schools. These are facts.

The rules for national schools provide that text books should not be changed for a period of years unless in exceptional circumstances. An official circular issued to all second level schools in 1976 stated that with a view to reducing the impact of text book costs on parents school authorities should direct the attention of all teachers to the desirability of changing non prescribed text books as infrequently as possible. I take the point Deputy Horgan made—and I know it is a good one—that there is, of course, the danger of the grey uniformity; it bores the teacher and it bores the pupil if the same text books are used over and over again. Younger children in a family read the older children's books and consequently it is more difficult to sustain interest and stimulate children if the text books become hackneyed. I admit there is that problem and it is relevant to refer to it at this point.

School authorities have also been advised from time to time of measures which they themselves could take to relieve the financial strain on parents. Two or more schools catering for children in a particular area, for instance, could collaborate in their choice of text books so as to enable the children of one family but of different schools to pass on used text books to brothers and sisters. Care might be taken that there is no unnecessary expenditure on copybooks and similar requisites and that pupils are required to purchase the minimum number of items only. Also Deputy Horgan referred to certain teachers ordering certain text books for the following year then finding themselves not in charge of that class, with other teachers being constrained to order different books. I have seen that happen. It is something that should be eliminated by proper organisation. I know there are difficulties but the onus might be on the teacher to accommodate himself or herself rather than force pupils, particularly of limited means, to buy a second text book while not using the first one.

In some cases the use of library materials, such as encyclopaedias, reference books and so on might be possible as an alternative to the use of a class text. Loan schemes could be operated as an alternative to the outright purchase of books. I had experience myself also of books that were handed down from one class to the one following it—under the British system—and this was not totally satisfactory either because sometimes pages were chucked out, sometimes pages fell out and, very often, a pupil was at a disadvantage the following year when using that type of book.

Many of the complaints received in my Department relate to the frustration often experienced by the school, pupils, parents and booksellers alike in the efforts to achieve a full and timely supply of books. Deputy Horgan referred to this at some length. In Dublin particularly long queues at bookshops seem to usher in each school year. Many such queues are a result of a propensity not to do to-day what can possibly be put off until tomorrow. In most cases the books are in the shops all summer but parents or pupils leave it until the last minute to make their purchases. For their part my Department have exhorted the schools authorities to ensure that as much advance notice as possible is given to pupils and parents regarding all text books required for the following year. The schools are also asked to confirm that the books required are in adequate stock in educational bookshops. They are expected to give details of the nearest stockist to pupils and parents and to advise them of the obvious disadvantages of failure to procure the books in good time. However, the system whereby pupils obtain their text books is ultimately a matter for arrangement by the schools themselves. For example, some schools purchase the books in bulk and re-sell them to the pupils whereas, in others, the pupils or their parents purchase the books direct from the booksellers. I do not think I have any liberty to interfere with the discretion of the schools in this matter but I would expect them to have regard to the wishes of the parents.

The report of the Prices Commission, to which I have referred already, pointed out that publication and distribution costs form a significant part of the total price of text books. It went on to say:

Publishers must have a distribution capacity capable of meeting the peak selling period in August/September. At other times of the year this capacity is considerably underutilised. If buying patterns could be spread more evenly over a few months the problem could be alleviated and distribution costs possibly reduced. Some publishers strongly advise teachers to purchase earlier. In this area more use of cash and carry facilities might be made by schools and teachers.

What is needed, therefore, is a modicum of commonsense on the part of both the schools and the parents themselves. There is one aspect of this matter to which I wish to refer particularly since it is an area in which my Department have a direct involvement. Deputy Horgan referred to this part of my amendment as being extraneous. I do not consider it to be extraneous. I do not think that the text books for what I regard as the most important subject on the school curriculum can be regarded as extraneous to a debate like this.

I am not criticising the Minister about that; perhaps that is news to the Minister.

I refer to the supply of school text books in the Irish language. The position regarding the supply of these books was unsatisfactory for many years and the public had every reason to complain. In fact on 19 November 1975 I raised this matter here in the House with the previous Minister for Education in a debate on the Adjournment. Therefore, it gives me great pleasure to report on the progress made in this regard in the period since 1977. In 1977 my Department published six school text books in Irish. Of course, these all carry a fairly heavy inbuilt subsidy. Therefore, it is highly relevant to this debate even though on a narrower plane. In 1978 the number was 16 and in that year also the new Irish/English dictionary was published. Although this is not a school text book it is a major work of reference for schools and should be mentioned. So far this year we have published ten text books as well as a junior dictionary of the Irish language, and there are more to come.

In addition to publishing their own books, the Irish publications branch of my Department assist in the production of school text books in Irish by private publishers to serve subjects other than Irish itself. There are grant schemes covering original books and translations both in the primary and post-primary fields. Assistance is given in three ways—by substantial grants of money, by editorial advice and assistance and by the provision of terminology. This last is a most important service which is being given to publishers, to teachers and to others.

In the three years 1977, 1978, and 1979, 31 text books, as well as several reprints, were published with the assistance of these schemes. I consider this a most important part of the work of An Gúm because it is obviously most desirable to encourage private publishers, as far as possible, to undertake the production of books in Irish as a normal part of their work. More text books in Irish are still needed but it is acknowledged on all sides that good progress is now being made in dealing with the problem and that the remaining gaps are being steadily filled.

It is hardly necessary for me to point out that school texts are not enough; there must be other reading material in Irish available to children and young people if the language is to live for them. My Department have, in the last few years, published over 50 attractive books for children, as well as books for teenagers and adults, and also plays and music. The emphasis has been very much on quality here—we have set ourselves very high standards, so that the reading material available in Irish will compare favourably with anything produced in English. That we are succeeding is evident from the fact that two of our books won book design awards this year and were chosen by the Irish Booksellers' Association to be sent to represent Ireland at the Frankfurt Book Fair. One of them won a bronze medal, Duais Bhord na Gaeilge, as the best designed book produced in Irish. It is no exaggeration to say that the image of An Gúm is now one of progress, quality and success, and that that image is being made steadily brighter.

In this connection, I am sure Deputies will be interested in the following letters which my Department have recently received. The first is from Coiste Gnó Chonradh na Gaeilge. Ghlac an coiste rún:

ag tréaslú le Brainse na bhFoilseachán den Roinn as a bhfuil curtha i gcrích acu le blianta beaga anuas. Is é tuairim an Choiste Gnó ná go bhfuil éacht curtha i gcrích acu i dtaca le leabhair Ghaeilge a chur ar fáil do pháistí. Ní mór a bhfuil déanta acu chun freastal ar an éileamh do théacsleabhair Ghaeilge sna bunscoileanna a mholadh go hard chomh maith.

Agus fuair mé an litir seo ó Bhord na Gaeilge:

Léiríonn an Catalóg—ó Bhrainse na bhFoilseachán den Roinn—a fheabhas agus atá saothar an Bhrainse. Is eol dúinn gur taca tábhachtach don oideachas agus do thógáil chlainne trí Ghaeilge foilsiú na leabhar nua do leanaí.

Is ábhar sásaimh do Bhord na Gaeilge an dul chun cinn atá déanta le tamall anuas le hábhar ceart a chur ar fáil do leanaí agus lena dhíol leo.

I absolutely reject the negative piffling approach of the motion put down by the Deputies and I feel I have every justification in requesting Dáil Éireann to welcome my action in increasing the financial allocation for the free books scheme and my initiative in expanding the publication of text books through Irish.

I am pleased to have an opportunity of supporting this timely motion which deserves the attention of the House. The Minister admitted that the introduction of the new curriculum in primary schools has meant that new text books have had to be published and that increased prices have been charged for those books. If one takes into consideration inflation one gets a proper picture of the substantial increases which face parents who have young school-going children. The approach to teaching at school level and the development of syllabi has led to the publishing of new types of school texts. This also has led to increased costs. The Minister has accepted that as a fact of life and for that reason he should not have sneered at the motion which he described as a negative piffling approach. It was silly of the Minister to make such a statement.

A scheme was introduced in the thirties under which one shilling was given to pupils in need of text books. Those text books remained the property of the school. In 1968 the scheme was revised and a grant of £1 per pupil was allocated and the books remained the property of the pupil. That scheme applied from second class to sixth class. I suggest that £1 per pupil then was more valuable than £3 per pupil today, a figure which the Minister seems to be happy with. In 1973 the grant was increased to £1.30 per pupil and this was increased to £2 in 1974 when the scheme was extended to first class pupils. The grant was increased in 1979 to £3 per head.

The scheme is administered in accordance with the terms of a stringent circular from the Department. The reading of that circular leaves one in no doubt but that it applies only to those children of very poor families. Indeed, where 25 per cent of a school in the primary sector is deemed to be in need of help under this scheme it is suggested that a loan scheme be introduced rather than the grant scheme. That would ensure that the expenditure under the scheme in subsequent years would be automatically lowered. From my experience I am aware that the scheme is not being administered with discretion in some schools. The free books and accessories scheme was introduced in 1967-68 when free second level education was introduced. The circular which deals with the scheme for 1978-79 states, in paragraph 2, that for the purposes of the scheme a necessitous pupil may be defined as a child from a home where genuine hardship exists because of unemployment, prolonged illness of parents, large family with inadequate means, mother a widow or other circumstances which would denote a similar degree of domestic financial hardship. The circular states that in this connection it should be noted that the possession of a medical card in its own right does not qualify that pupil for the receipt of free books or accessories. That clearly indicates that the scheme is to be administered stringently, as has been the case. Some schools have managed to administer the scheme with discretion but other schools have not. It has been made known to me on occasions that the manner in which the scheme has been administered has led to a degree of stigma being attached to certain pupils. That is deplorable and something should be done by the Department to ensure that the scheme is administered with discretion and in strict privacy.

The scheme should be more liberally applied. More discretion should be given to the principals of schools in the day to day working of the scheme. It is most unfair that the medical card should be used as a criterion.-A person holding a medical card should automatically come under the free books and accessories scheme. There is a more obvious method of assessing pupils in a class. It should be obvious to the teacher which pupils need books and there should be no difficulty about that teacher going to the principal or to the board of management with the information in confidence and there should be no problem in ensuring the confidentiality of the scheme. That has not been the position to date.

The Minister is rather pleased that he has increased by 50 per cent the allowances per pupil. This does not tell us what money was spent under the scheme. In the second level sector in 1969, £168,632 was spent. This gradually increased up to £316,091 in 1973-74 and there was a substantial jump from that to a figure £628,031 in 1977. That was because there was a considerable improvement in the use of the scheme and possibly a more liberal interpretation of the scheme at school level. That is something which we should seek to improve upon. I note that the estimate for second level education in 1977 was £600,000 and in 1978 the estimate was still £600,000. I do not know how the Minister can be proud of his involvement at this level. I understand that the estimate for 1979 is £636,000, an increase of 6 per cent. From 1977 to 1979 there was only an increase of 6 per cent. With the level of inflation in these two years no one can say that a 6 per cent increase was sufficient to offset the ravages of inflation and the obvious increase in the cost of school books during that period.

At some other time will the Minister be more specific in his explanation as to how he can administer his new capitation level of £3 per pupil with what is in effect a lesser real amount in money terms under this subhead? If the Minister is going to perform the miracle of the loaves and fishes I would like to know how. The Minister is not committed to the scheme at all.

In the primary sector in 1977 the estimate was £258,000 and in 1979 it was £270,000. This again is a very meagre increase under the subheads. How can the Minister expand the scheme or even administer the scheme at £3 per head with an amount of money which is less in real terms than it was two years ago?

I am in favour of school libraries. In the long-term savings could be made both for the Department and the parents of school-going children. If money was made available over a period to schools to allow them to build up proper and comprehensive school libraries with appropriate reference books that would be a very progressive way forward. I was in Cork city recently where I was in Scoil Ais Éiri Íosa Críost up in Farranree where they were collecting money in public with the specific objective of trying to establish a proper school library.

During school hours?

No, I met them on a canvass. The Deputy may recall that there was an election in Cork recently. Their objective is good but the Department should become more active and committed to the establishment of school libraries especially in second level schools. The problem is not as vital in the primary sector. I note from a letter which emanated from the Department in July 1978 in reply to representations, that the necessary money was not available for such an approach. That shows a lack of commitment to a vital area of importance for parents of school-going children and especially parents of large families who face a genuine problem in relation to children attending school.

Even at first level—and I have a school-going child in fourth class myself—in a year, I am lucky to get away with £20. Also, essential copybooks and so on cost me more in the region of £25. Certainly, with post-primary and secondary schoolgoers, more involved in languages, history, geography and scientific subjects, one is faced with a frightening increase in the cost of school books, certainly anything between £30 and £60, and more towards £60 for the senior student. If you multiply that estimate for school books by two or three, that is a substantial expense to any parent of two or three children. Granted that money might be saved in passing some books back, but not all, because of the change in syllabus each year; it might happen that the years do not coincide. The suggestion that £3 per head will assist necessitous pupils is ridiculous in the context of the real costs of school books. That the Minister could suggest that the motion is negative is, to me, rather puerile.

On the subject of the supply of school books, we are reaching a position where our supply of school books will be in the hands of perhaps two or three printing companies or publishers, where there will be a quasi-monopoly—or oligopoly is perhaps the right word—in the supply of school books. This is a serious matter which the Minister should examine.

The situation was a damn sight worse 20 or 30 years ago, I can tell you. Far more Irish text books are produced here now than there were.

I am not quibbling with the Minister about the availability of the supply of books.

We were buying from Britain at that time.

I take the Minister's point. I am happy that we are producing books in Ireland, but am apprehensive that the supplying firms are becoming less numerous and more monopolistic and that, while they would be supplying plenty of books, the price could be prohibitive unless the matter is kept under constant review. We might, in fact, have one dominant publishing company in control of the greater portion of the school books' market. This is something to be avoided. It would mean a rise in prices every year not based on reasonable cost increases. Will the Minister examine this aspect?

The question of VAT has been raised. I was on the Special Committee dealing with the VAT Bill way back in, I think, 1972, subject to correction. We pleaded for exemption from VAT on school books and got no satisfaction from the Minister at that time and VAT remains on school books. EEC regulations have been quoted here in reply to my question and indeed that of other Deputies—that it is against EEC regulations to abolish VAT. This can be circumvented to reducing VAT to 1 per cent, which would be very proper and correct. I do not agree that it would be difficult to identify school text books, or accessories. It would be relatively easy for the Department to monitor the types of books being used in first, second and, indeed, third level education. Those books should be subject to VAT at the rate of 1 per cent, if we cannot abolish it altogether. The gnomes of Brussels will sit back in their well-carpeted offices and will say "Yes, our regulations are being adhered to".

Another matter which has been drawn to my attention, and a serious one, is that apparently a salesman for some publishing company went into a secondary school, saying that his company's text books were very important and added to the knowledge of the children. That may very well have been so, but I wonder what regulations are in existence to control a travelling salesman's entrance into a classroom, hawking his goods? There should be some regulation that anything in relation to the sale of extra-curriculum school text books should be under the jurisdiction of the principal or the manager of the school. It is wrong that salesmen selling books should have access to the classroom. It is important that the teacher has the say in recommending text books, not salesmen. I would be glad if the Minister would look into that matter.

The question of the administration of the books in school is something else that should be considered. A teacher should have a post of responsibility in each classroom for the management of the scheme. Hopefully, when Fine Gael get back into Government they may be in a position——

God love you.

——to establish a proper library system in schools.

Would Deputy Collins move the adjournment of the debate?

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 14 November, 1979.
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