andMr. Kelly asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy if net energy imports to Ireland constitute a higher percentage of GNP than any other EEC countries except Luxembourg, and if any improvement is envisaged on the basis of existing economic trends and proven domestic energy sources over the next five years.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Energy Imports.
3.
Figures of GNP for the other eight member states of the European Communities in this context are not available to me but, on the basis of published figures for GDP and energy imports for the years 1977 and 1978, it appears that net energy imports to Ireland constitute a higher percentage of GDP than any other EEC country except Luxembourg.
Considerable uncertainty exists about the future level of energy prices and it would be difficult to say with any degree of certainty at this stage whether any improvement can be envisaged over the next five years. As the Deputies are aware, proven domestic energy sources are being exploited to the maximum extent possible.
Would the Minister not agree that the information he disclosed indicates a very serious situation in view of the fact that further economic growth will involve a higher marginal consumption of energy than even the maintenance of existing levels of economic activity? Would he state what plans he has to get over this difficulty?
What the Deputy says is correct and I have been constantly saying that for the past two years. I hope this will get through to the general public to a greater extent than it has up to now. We are one of the countries which is more dependent on external sources of energy than most others and accordingly our vulnerability is greater.
4.
asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy in relation to the recently announced agreement by the National Petroleum Corporation to purchase crude oil from Iraq, (a) the price to be paid for this oil, (b) the arrangements for its transport, in particular whether these represent an economical use of tanker capacity, and (c) whether this crude oil is to be refined at Whitegate, and, if not, why.
The price, transport and refining arrangements for the crude oil being purchased from Iraq are matters primarily for the board of the Irish National Petroleum Corporation which are engaged in a commercial operation and I consider that it would not be appropriate for me to give details about them. As regards refining, I would point out that the Whitegate Refinery fully operational provides only about 40 per cent of our national needs and it is not envisaged that the refinery will have suitable spare capacity available in the coming year.
Is the House to take it from the Minister's reply that the oil deals of the Irish National Petroleum Corporation will be immune from control in this House?
The Irish National Petroleum Corporation are not any different in this regard from any other commercially orientated semi-State body. Their commercial activities will have to remain confidential. If they did not, their competitors would be given an unfair advantage because they do not have to publish the kind of information the Deputy is seeking here, in relation to the INPC.
Is it not a fact that while the Minister did not actually put a figure on it, at a meeting on 30 October he said that the price might be less than $35 a barrel——
I did not state that publicly and I did not make that statement. Certain suggestions were made to me privately which I did not go along with and that conclusion was drawn from them.
Is the Minister saying that the report published in The Irish Press is not correct?
It does not correctly present the information and the Deputy will find that somebody else who was quoted also has objected——
Does the report represent what the Minister said on that occasion?
It does not represent the position correctly. Certain questions were asked and certain conclusions were drawn.
If the operations of that company are confidential, they must be as confidential in private conversations as well as in public conversations. Did the Minister say that the price was lower than $35 a barrel?
A statement was attributed to another in regard to the price. I was asked if that was correct and I said it was not.
We are not going to get a straight answer.
That is the position.
Did the Minister say that the price was less than $35 a barrel? Yes or no.
I have explained the circumstances to the Deputy.
We are not going to get a straight answer. Does the ordinary commercial practice that applies to trading semi-State companies equally forbid the Minister telling the House something about transport arrangements? Will the price be f.o.b. or c.i.f.?
F.o.b.
Since this crude oil will not be refined at the Whitegate Oil Refinery, what arrangements have been made? The Minister must know that these refineries are owned by the INPC's competitors.
The oil will probably be refined in more than one refinery outside this country and this is a matter in respect of which the INPC will have to be allowed maximum flexibility.
Is the Minister aware that these refineries are owned by the alleged competitors of the INPC and therefore, why the confidentiality when everybody knows where the tankers are going?
That is an argument. We have had enough supplementary questions. Question No. 5.
The refineries will be in countries other than Ireland.
Will the Minister tell the House whether it is a fact that the shipping arrangements are such that the batches to be despatched here will not occupy more than a small fraction of the capacity of a single tanker with the result that what is destined for Ireland will have to be combined with batches for other places?
That is not so.