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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 20 Feb 1980

Vol. 318 No. 1

Private Members' Business. - Price Control: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann notes the continued failure of the Government to take decisive action in the area of the control of prices after almost three years in office: aware of the promises of the Government contained in pages 10 and 11 of the Fianna Fáil manifesto relating in particular to its undertaking to discourage increased costs and prices in all areas where it has control and influence; and to examine the accounting procedures of the ESB with a view to reducing the price of electricity; also notes that since the beginning of 1980 further price increases have been sanctioned by the Government, including increases of 10.5 per cent in coal, 20.5 per cent in ESB rates, 4 per cent in milk, 10 per cent in bread, 20 per cent in CIE fares, 29p in bottled gas—all of which have hit the weaker sections of the community hardest—and condemns this further abject failure of the Government to cushion the most disadvantaged sections of the community from the effects of price increases by their deliberate escalation of these price trends due to their own policies such as the abolition of food subsidies.

The increases in the prices of essential commodities and services which have taken place since the return of Fianna Fáil to Government in June 1977 not only places an intolerable burden on consumers but constitutes a cynical and unscrupulous breach of the election promises and undertakings made by that party in seeking support in that election.

The clouds of almost radio-active republican rhetoric which wafted out from the RDS last week-end cannot obscure this serious situation. Most politicians in relation to price control are long on analysis and short on solutions. However, listening to the Taoiseach last Saturday evening one felt that he was commenting on another world. The real world of price rises and PAYE does not apparently relate to the nationalist rhetoric of the Taoiseach. But then it is not every family in the country who can afford to pop out to the back garden, shoot a few pheasants, have them plucked, and served for dinner. It is indicative of the economic and social priorities of the Taoiseach that in an Ard-Fheis speech of over one hour we had a curt two minute reference to prices and the National Prices Commission.

I make these harsh comments because I feel that our country is once again drifting into the vicious spiral of prices—incomes escalation. There is clear evidence that such inflation is a guaranteed means of making the rich relatively richer and the poor relatively poorer. Campaigning against inflation and doing its utmost to reduce the worst effects of inflation should therefore be a high priority for any Government unless of course the Taoiseach wishes to see a continuation of a situation where the men of property gain all along the line and the pensioners are left at the bottom of the pile. Arising out of this inflation large numbers of jobs can also be threatened. It needs to be pointed out to every trade unionist in the country that, while some wage or salary groups may be able to get ahead in such an inflationary race for some of the time, all groups will not be able to get ahead all of the time and anybody in the trade union movement who thinks that this can be done is only indulging in economic fantasy. Such realism is evident from every single one of the reports of the National Prices Commission since 1971, which I had an opportunity to read over the prolonged Christmas Recess.

Consumer prices rose by 16 per cent in the year to November 1979. Since Fianna Fáil took office—and I am using the base of August 1979—prices have moved as follows: all consumer prices are up by 27.3 per cent; food prices are up by 26.3 per cent. If one had the mid-February figure that would be substantially greater. But essential food items which hit the housewife's purse and where subsidies have already been partially removed have increased as follows:

August 1977

November 1979

% Increase

P

P

Milk (per pint)

8.0

12.5

56

Bread (800 grms.)

23.9

32.1

34

Butter (1 lb.)

53.1

63.6

20

Cheese (1 lb.)

71.6

97.7

36

Flour (plain: 2 kgs.)

43.9

67.0

52

During the election campaign Fianna Fáil canvassers went from door to door with the famous gospel—not the manifesto, which was rather large for digestion—in the form of a handbook called the "Fianna Fáil Canvasser's Guide for 1977". It is rather interesting to quote the section on prices and a couple of questions in that guide:

Q. Will Fianna Fáil put VAT back on food?

A. No. On the contrary, Fianna Fáil is in favour of food subsidies which reduce the price of everyday foods and we pressed the Coalition to introduce them for the best part of a year before they finally did so.

In the field of price control I fully accept that miracles cannot be worked. Prices must bear some direct relation to costs of production. If wages and salaries or the price of materials rise, price rises must inevitably follow. If such price increases are to be prevented, then the increased costs would of course have to be met from either profits or from improvements in efficiency. It is also clearly quite evident that, if the profits of any undertaking are pushed below the level required to maintain and up-date a firm's plant and equipment, higher efficiency is quite unlikely to occur and in the long run such a firm will not survive for long.

However, having made this admission, I would strongly point out that price control and surveillance can be so operated as to limit price increases to the minimum and to prevent prices or charges being increased without full justification. In my opinion, if the National Prices Commission and the sanctioning role of the Government can be seen by the public to be operating with reasonable effectiveness over the general range of goods and services, this can be a vital factor in reassuring consumers that their interests are in fact being protected and that there is no licence on a general basis throughout the country to raise prices at will. I get the distinct impression that in recent months—and perhaps not unrelated to the fact that there is little sympathy between the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Tourism and the present Taoiseach—the sanctioning of such increases has just been let rip.

One of the most serious charges which can be made against the present Government is their obdurate refusal to consider any subsidy to reduce prices in critical areas of consumer expenditure. For example, in the June 1975 Budget introduced by the then Coalition Government there was a CIE subsidy increase in order to reduce fares to their level before 12 May 1974. Fares on Dublin city bus services, provincial bus services and Dublin and Cork commuter rail services accordingly were reduced at that time by no less than 25 per cent on average. That was part of a deliberate policy to keep prices down.

Also in the 1975 Budget the price of bread was subsidised by 5½p per loaf of 800 grammes and flour was subsidised by 4½p per kilo. On that occasion the cost of a loaf of bread was reduced by a net 4p or 20 per cent. In the same budget, at a time of exceeding stringency, the then existing subsidy of 2.4p per pound of butter was increased by 10p to 12.4p per pound and the price of milk for human consumption was subsidised by 2p per pint.

As many consumers are also aware, town gas costs have substantially increased in recent years. I would point out that, for example, in the 1975 budget a subsidy to producers of town gas was introduced to enable them to reduce the price to consumers by an average of 12½ per cent. Likewise in 1975, in relation to value-added tax this was removed from electricity and from all fuels except road fuels. It was removed from clothing and from clothing materials and footwear. These categories had been subject to the 6.75 per cent tax rate.

Thus, if one takes the 1975 Budget, in a period of relative stringency and recession, the net effect of the measures which we then introduced was at that time to reduce a rise in the consumer price index by no fewer than 4 percentage points. This was at a time of massive high inflation, and decisive action on our part succeeded in mitigating the worst effects on the middle and lower income group families in the country. There is a pattern for the Government to follow. But, regrettably, due to their profligate policy of recent years there is now no money in the national coffers to meet such subsidies and to follow a similar policy. This is a matter of profound regret and it directly reflects the fact that the management of the State's finances in the past three years has been, to say the least, catastrophic. The present Taoiseach was a member of that Cabinet since mid-1977 and he cannot now merely shrug off his share of collective responsibility for that debacle.

I wish to refer to the effects of taxation policy on prices and price control. The Labour Party strongly oppose any proposal to introduce further broadly based VAT increases. There is already a high level of indirect taxation in relation to total taxation. Such further VAT increases would inevitably cover many of the necessities of life. Price inflation would further accelerate. It would be inherently inequitable in that its incidence would not be directly related to taxable capacity or to family circumstances. It would result in a more inequitable distribution of the tax burden over the community. In effect, such reliance on indirect taxation would mean an additional burden on all lower and middle income families.

I would strongly stress that such prospective VAT increases would definitely raise the cost of living. It would immediately give rise to quite justifiable income demands for increases in wages and salaries. This policy could well have serious implications in relation to costs and our competitive position. In our opinion, at a time when stability of prices is generally considered to be a primary aim of economic policy it would be folly for the Government to deliberately raise prices over a wide range of commodities by the further inposition of VAT increases.

I would remind the Deputy that he must limit his remarks to prices and not relate them to budgets past or to come.

The Labour Party wish to express their appreciation of the work of the National Prices Commission in their serious efforts to limit price increases to what is absolutely necessary if employment and the viability of enterprises are to be maintained. I suggest that the commission be provided with whatever resources they require in the future to extend their activities and to play an even more effective role in price control and surveillance. Likewise, it is to be deplored that the office of the Director of Consumer Affairs does not seem to be able to cope with the many hundreds of complaints that could be dealt with if he had sufficient expert staff and if he was in a position to employ consultants for various contentious areas.

In the speech of the Taoiseach it was suggested that the future role of the NPC should be reviewed. I should like to point out harshly to the Taoiseach that this review was an integral part of that famous manifesto. I do not think that a full review report has yet been published after almost three years in office. It is important to stress that the NPC are a strictly advisory body to the Minister and that the Cabinet have the final responsibility to accept or reject their recommendations.

It is not good enough on a Friday evening after we have left Dáil Éireann that news about price increases is surreptitiously released and banged out to the media and that on Saturday morning the coverage of weekend sports crowds out the news of price increases. That kind of procedure is not good enough. However, it is not the responsibility of the NPC when the Minister decided to release news of price increases.

The positive aspects of the work of the NPC should be emphasised. They have eliminated some blatant efforts at profiteering and they have moderated excessive applications. In this regard I wish to pay tribute to the general work of the NPC and in so doing to pay tribute to the recently retired chairman, Mr. John Walsh, who gave dedicated public service to the commission since 1975. During his years in the IDA and in the Restrictive Practices Commission his work was a continuing contribution to our economic and social development. I wish the new chairman well in his difficult work. The NPC cannot be held responsible for failures of Government strategy. It is quite evident that in many areas the Government have failed to consult the NPC on major aspects of economic strategy and the effect on prices. For example, I do not believe there was any consultation with the NPC on the removal of food subsidies and I do not believe that at the moment any papers are being sought from the NPC on the question of indirect taxation. They might well have some views to express on these two policies that contain the ripe seeds of further inflation. I think the answer of the NPC would be in the negative.

Personally I have always welcomed the Price Line system of notification of complaints by consumers and I have encouraged constituents to avail of it. That system should be extended and it should be publicised more effectively. It is significant to note that two-thirds of all price complaints notified to Price Line have been found to be justified. Therefore, it appears there is plenty of scope for expansion of that system.

With regard to restrictive practices on prices, there must be a concerted effort on the part of the Government, employers and trade unions to ensure that such practices are eliminated. Undoubtedly they increase costs and these, in turn, increase prices. In many areas of Irish life there are expensive and unsatisfactory procedures that result in a lower level of productive efficiency. These practices exist at all levels—even in Leinster House; certainly they exist in the public service, the manufacturing sector and in the professions. The NPC should have a special brief to seek out these detrimental practices and to refuse or only recommend partial price increases where obviously no effort has been made to remove the barriers to reduce costs.

I have considered for some time the Restrictive Practices Commission and the National Prices Commission and I think the Minister should consider seriously their amalgamation. I had great sympathy with the Minister recently in relation to some difficulties he had arising out of some aspects of personnel relating to the Restrictive Practices Commission. On balance the two-tier system operating at present is not effective. The functions of the NPC and the RPC are in many ways complementary, particularly in the competition sectors. The RPC have a two-tier system of an examiner and a commission with prior reference to the examiner and dependence on his report to the commission. The whole business should be streamlined. There are excessive delays in the examination of restrictive practices. For example, we have had an examination of petrol distributors since April 1979 which was recently extended. I was a trade union official involved in the embryonic role of the Prices Advisory Committee and I have always felt that the Prices Division of the Department of Industry and Commerce have been able to move with greater speed. They have always presented their reports much more expeditiously and the practice could be followed by the Restrictive Practices Commission and the National Prices Commission in a joint role.

In the opinion of the Labour Party it is absolutely necessary that the public should become involved in the general price surveillance machinery. For this reason we have argued over the years that in the major centres of population it should be possible to establish local prices committees. Such committees should be representative of the local chambers of commerce, trading organisations, the local trades councils and other appropriate voluntary organisations such as the Irish Housewives Association and they should have certain simple basic powers devolved on them. For example, such local committees should have power to check if all local traders display price lists, and to inquire from such traders if these lists are, in fact, up to date. They might well be given the power to hold informal hearings and local inquiries into particular prices or charges, and local consumers and consumer organisations would be entitled to attend and give evidence. Findings could be reported to the NPC at national level.

In this way these local prices committees would be in a position to act as local watchdogs for local consumers, to involve the local organisations in the machinery of price surveillance and provide some local opportunity for local action to keep prices down. In many parts of the country there are particular local trading practices and there is, of course, throughout the country a total lack of consumer information. These committees could act as the local information centres for the consumers and they could work also in close liaison with the national Consumer Affairs Director and his staff. It is essential that there should be a follow-through from the legislation which this House has enacted on consumer affairs in the past two years.

Of particular benefit in my opinion has been the coverage of consumer price issues and complaints by RTE particularly in two main programmes, namely, the consumer affairs section of the Gay Byrne radio programme in the morning and also and equally the coverage of consumer affairs in the Rodney Rice programme later in the morning.

These particular programmes are invaluable in bringing to public attention the issues surrounding consumer complaints about prices, and in ensuring that consumers get value for money. A number of complaints have been directly resolved to the satisfaction of the parties concerned. However, it would appear to me that the resources of RTE in this area are stretched to the limit and it may well be that there should be an indirect subsidy from the Department of Industry, Commerce and Tourism to these media programmes in RTE either by way of making staff available from the Public Service to these programmes to enable them to expand or by providing a direct cash subsidy to enable them to employ a larger number of staff and to extend air time for these essential programmes. Also it is in my opinion most necessary that on the television programmes of RTE there should be specific consumer affairs programmes dealing with price issues. I appreciate that in the history of RTE such programmes have been extremely controversial but there is no reason whatever why this vital area should not be revived and extended in the national interest. Far too often in this country many consumers, particularly in relation to the personal services, are prepared to accept shoddy, inferior and poor quality service when with a greater degree of awareness and determination on the part of consumers much better value for money could be obtained from the system.

The Deputy has left a bit out of his script. I would like to draw attention to it.

The Minister is welcome. I have only ten minutes.

Such as restaurant and hotel service.

The Deputy is not entitled to read any script as far as the Chair is concerned.

The Deputy is reading it continuously.

Could the Chair have a copy of this marvellous thing that they gave us half an hour ago?

The Chair would rule that no Deputy can read from a script but the Chair finds it very difficult to know whether a Deputy is reading a script or using copious notes.

He is doing it surreptitiously.

He seems to be attacking trade union members in hotels and restaurants.

Paul Mollett will not like that one. Wait until Paul Mollett reads it.

The Minister should not read the script for him.

In my remaining ten minutes I want to refer to a number of aspects in a number of areas and one area to which I want to refer is that of land prices. To some extent it may be outside the ambit of the Minister but there is total failure or neglect on the part of the Government to come to grips with the upsurge in building land prices which has been a notable feature of price inflation over the past decade. As far back as 1969 the NIEC recommended to the Government that an urgent study should be made to assemble the facts about increased site values so as to establish precisely the magnitude of the increases which had then occurred. Unless action is taken now—and, as the Minister well knows, in some areas it is far too late at this stage—it can be expected that the same factors which throughout the seventies led to massive increases in building land prices will lead to further such increases in the future. In the opinion of the Labour Party, it is imperative, both from the social and the economic standpoint, that effective statutory steps are taken to prevent this continued exploitation of the community and the appropriation by a small number of landowners and speculators of values created directly by community action.

At the moment I am Vice-Chairman of Dublin County Council and next year I hope, if I am around, to be Chairman of the council. It has been quite evident to me since I first became a member of that council in 1975 that this exploitation of pressing community needs has been a major factor in the rise in house prices which should be of serious concern in the light of the still acute shortage of housing accommodation affecting many thousands of young couples and single persons seeking their own homes.

There has been more rigorous enforcement of the income tax provisions in relation to land speculation. Unfortunately, successive Governments have accepted the very narrow legalistic definition of property rights in our Constitution. We should put on record that we intend——

Is this part of the script relevant?

I was about to say to the Deputy that he is extending the scope of his motion.

Time will not permit me to cope with it. I will leave that aspect in relation to land prices and go on to another area which is close to my heart, and I am sure to the Minister's, that of banking charges and profits. There is at the moment massive public criticism about the profits, bank charges and services of the commercial banks, as the Minister is well aware.

The Deputy is getting into another field now. The motion deals with prices and the House would understand that that means prices of consumer goods. We are not going to talk about bank profits.

If you, Sir, had to pay 22 per cent on a bank bridging loan you would know what prices are all about. It is entirely proper that we should refer to this impact on prices in our community and it is entirely wrong that the scale of those profits and charges——

We will have to keep within the script.

——should be outside the statutory investigative role of the NPC. Therefore, they should be brought within its scope. The commercial banks are getting away with the cream of the economy of this country with, generally speaking, very low productivity, relatively short hours of public service, high interest rates and massive profits as a result of the inflationary situation. The NPC should be empowered to do something in this area even if it hurts the Central Bank's controlling and supervision in that regard.

I refer to another area of massive price increases, namely CIE, which is referred to in our motion. I submit strongly that the Government must make up their minds rather than blather on at ard-fheiseanna, about the issue of a national transport policy. No policy whatsoever has been enunciated in regard to the increased costs relative to CIE. When you read through the various reports of the NPC you sense time and again the feeling that there must and should be a coherent, clearly enunciated national transport policy. We have a double failure here with a situation where not only is there no national transport policy, but CIE are starved of capital and as a result the quality of service in CIE rockets downwards and the cost to the consumer rockets upward. There is need for decisive action in that area.

There are other areas into which I do not propose to go in any great detail. The Government have done nothing regarding the NPC report in relation to the Dublin fruit and vegetable market. Any housewife in the country, particularly housewives who do the bulk of buying of fruit and vegetables, will point to the relatively high cost of purchasing these products. We have low quality and high price in relation to these basic vegetables, yet no decisive action has been taken by the Government in relation to the quite strong reports which have been received from the NPC.

I refer to the question of coal prices. It is time to put the boot in in relation to the monopolistic situation in coal prices and the system of distribution of coal. I am perturbed about the quality of the coal delivered throughout the greater Dublin area by this monopoly. It appears to be a very low grade industrial coal not suitable for domestic use. You would need a blow-lamp to burn some of it. It is clear that a sub-standard mixture has been imported and distributed. The Government should take action in this regard and I fault the Government in that respect. I have three minutes left.

The Deputy has two minutes.

On the price of drink there is abject failure again to take decisive action. The prices of alcoholic and soft drinks are a national scandal. Consumers and tourists are expected to pay massively over the odds in the ordinary lounge bars. I hesitate to imagine what the Welsh supporters will say when they come to Lansdowne Road shortly and in some of the lounge bars in that area will have to pay 60p or 65p for a pint of beer when they can get it at half the price in their local rugby clubs at home. Unless we wish to ruin our tourist trade and cause our consumers to have heart failure, it is essential that the price of drink in that regard be dealt with effectively.

In conclusion, having spoken on three separate occasions in this House about prices in the past few years, I have tried to put some of my thoughts down on paper. I hope I have been as constructive as possible in relation to this matter. I appreciate the difficulties facing the Government and any Government in relation to price control, price surveillance and prices machinery. It is a complex and difficult area. I do not suggest that any miracles can be worked on it, but the Government should devote far greater energy during this year to ensuring that the worst effects of inflation are mitigated. This motion is not just a retrospective motion in relation to the deplorable promises made by the Government for a narrow electoral advantage in the last general election. The electorate have seen through that and I need not stress it unduly. The electorate now want to know about constructive proposals and for that reason I have tried to be as unabrasive as possible. I hope that some of our suggestions and comments in relation to individual commodities will be considered by the Minister in the situation in which we find ourselves as we enter the eighties.

I am glad to have the opportunity of my regular six monthly appearance to speak in this ritual debate on this ritual motion. God willing, we will be back again in six months' time when the next instalment comes up and possibly subsequently.

I was glad that Deputy Desmond moved and spoke on the motion because I heard him at lunch time on the radio today complaining about the Book of Estimates published this morning, the cuts in public expenditure, the reductions in a number of areas and the very obvious successful efforts by the Government to control public expenditure. Public expenditure, as it gets higher and since a great element of it is based on borrowing, is an inflationary factor. I would have thought that somebody complaining about inflation would welcome the successful efforts of the Government to control public expenditure. However, Deputy Desmond was all for more expenditure irrespective of who would pay for it. The Deputy now comes along here tonight, six hours later, and says the direct opposite: that we must control inflation and that we must do all the things that would help to reduce inflation. That sums up that Deputy's dilemma and it explains his obvious lack of enthusiasm for this debate as he read his not very original script.

The principal target in the Fianna Fáil manifesto, so far as it related to prices and inflation, at the time of the last general election, was to reduce inflation during 1978 to a figure of 7 per cent at a time when it was running at 15 per cent. Inflation had been at 18 per cent, 21 per cent and 19 per cent in the previous three years and 7 per cent had not been achieved since the sixties. The public were so inured to, not just double digit inflation but to inflation in the region of 20 per cent, that a lot of people, not least Deputy Desmond and some of his colleagues, thought that our pledge to reduce inflation to 7 per cent was nothing better than a joke. That is one part of the manifesto that the framers of this motion conveniently and selectively decided to leave out.

Where has 1978 been mentioned in the manifesto?

The Deputy can make his own speech.

That figure of 7 per cent was achieved and it is a figure of which we can be extremely proud. We got the inflation rate back to normal from the figures consistently in excess of 20 per cent which we had suffered during the term of the last Coalition Government.

Deputy Desmond feels that we should devote more energy to dealing with this question. It is a pity that the Deputy did not express that desire some years ago in the face of the over 20 per cent inflation figure. During the four and a quarter years of Coalition Government there was a Labour Minister for Industry and Commerce, a colleague of Deputy Desmond before he lost his seat. I asked the Department to examine the number of occasions on which he intervened in any way on a recommendation of the National Prices Commission during that term and I was informed that on no occasion, despite the thousands of recommendations made by the National Prices Commission and the fact that that time was by far historically the worst years for inflation here, did the then Minister intervene. Not once did the Minister bestir himself to even cast doubt on any one of those recommendations. That Minister and the Government of which he was a member saw themselves as rubber stamps and somebody else could worry about inflation and prices. Proof of it was the kind of inflation levels which occurred in that time.

A Minister for Industry and Commerce should concern himself with prices; and one of the reasons why things went out of control during the Coalition term of office was the total disinterest of that Minister. If that Minister were seen to have had an interest in these matters it would have been helpful to the Prices Commission and it would have been helpful in trying to break the spiral which went out of control at that time.

The Minister is not serious.

I am perfectly serious.

Is the Minister suggesting that the National Prices Commission acted irresponsibly in that period?

That every one of the recommendations need not have been reviewed or refused? The Deputy said in his speech that the responsibility was not theirs but that of the Minister and the Cabinet.

And the Minister has reduced the cost of living by rejecting or modifying the recommendations of the NPC? That is a bit thin.

The Minister will make his own statement.

He is capable of far better stuff than that.

In his speech the Deputy said: "It is of the utmost importance to stress that the NPC is a body with a strictly advisory role. The Cabinet has, of course, the final responsibility to accept or reject the recommendations of the National Prices Commission".

In the past two-and-a-half years on 34 occasions in respect of 49 commodities——

Out of how many recommendations? No less than about 5,000 recommendations.

The Minister has only a limited time and the Deputy should not try to utilise it.

The Deputy is feeling very sore and sorry for himself and this is his way of licking his wounds.

He is not entitled to interrupt.

On 34 occasions during the past two-and-a-half years in respect of 49 commodities I either refused or reduced the recommendation. I found on close examination of the recommendations that this was warranted and this is what the Deputy has been asking me to do. I am asking him why his then colleague could not bestir himself to do the same at a time when inflation was running at two or three times the present rate.

Because he was not involved in political cosmetics. The present Minister is reducing cornflakes.

Would the Deputy like a list of the commodities? It is a great deal wider than cornflakes. I do not recall cornflakes being included.

The Minister should be allowed to continue without interruption.

Let him give us the list.

It is up to the Minister to make his own speech.

It is up to him to do so in so far as he is allowed. I asked the Department to do a survey as best they could in a short period of the price control systems in each of the nine EEC nations. It appears that ours is by far the most stringent and one of the most difficult with which to comply. That worries me to some extent from the industrial point of view, because perhaps more pressures are put on firms here than in other countries.

The House will be aware that some months ago the British Government decided to abolish price controls altogether. The result has been a major rise in their inflation level and it is now substantially above ours. Apart from Britain and Italy, whose inflation rates are a good deal higher than ours, another interesting country which traditionally had a rate of inflation about one third of ours now has a rate approximately equal with ours. Deputy Desmond knows very well that there are major external factors which are creating enormous inflationary pressures for all countries, not least for this country. I am relieved that we have, as a result of hard work and careful scrutiny of all these applications, been able to hold things down to a reasonable level which is very considerably below that which operated some years ago.

The annual rate of inflation in 1975 was 20.9 per cent and last year it was 13.2 per cent. This is in spite of the fact that the increase in the price of oil in 1974 was approximately six dollars a barrel—from three to nine dollars—whereas the increase in the price of oil up to January 1980 has been of the order of 14 dollars a barrel, from 12 dollars to 26 dollars for cheapest oil—light Arabian crude—and from 12 dollars to 34 dollars for average oil, including North Sea oil. In 13 months the price of oil has almost trebled and in cash terms has gone up enormously when compared with the six dollars a barrel increase which was seen in 1974 and 1975 and then came to an end. In respect of most oil the increase is now 22 dollars a barrel, from 12 dollars to 34 dollars, and in respect of a not insignificant quantity of "spot" oil from 12 dollars up to 40 dollars or even 42 dollars a barrel. These are absolutely crippling increases having a very serious effect on the economy of this country and its balance of payments. All this money is going out of the country. It seems remarkable that we have still been able to hold the rate of inflation well below what it was when the trivial increases of the mid-seventies were taking place.

With no disrespect to him, it is a bit pathetic to listen to Deputy Desmond going through this ritual performance. The great bulk of what he said is for the gallery or the optics. If his demand that the price of everything be stopped were complied with, he is well aware that every second factory would be closed down in no time. Factories subject to price control who are manufacturing for the home market could not compete.

It is difficult for anyone in my position to hold the balance between the competing needs, demands and pressures of the consumer and those of an industrialist who is trying to produce goods at a reasonable price, trying to keep his workers in employment and in many cases trying to expand employment at a time of considerable economic difficulty. I receive a certain number of complaints about prices being too high or price control not being stringent enough, but the complaints I get in that respect are only a fraction of the complaints from aggrieved people subject to price control. Hardly a week passes when two or three people do not come to the Department to talk to me or the Minister of State about the difficulties which price control is creating for them, about how unfair they regard it and how stringently it has been applied, particularly in the past two years.

I have to have the greatest of sympathy for those people. The manufacturers of some of the goods mentioned by Deputy Desmond earlier were with me as recently as last Friday complaining bitterly that the price rises I allowed were restricted and unfair and that they would not be able to continue. Tonight we listened to simplistic complaints because a particular commodity was increased in price.

I should like to take coal as an example. Domestic coal is in very short supply in the world and the demand for it far exceeds the ability of producers to produce it. Poland for many years was our traditional source of supply, but the Poles cannot increase their output to allow us have any more. Their own domestic demand has had to go up enormously and they have to divert any additional production to the home market and to other Comicon countries because certain pressures are brought on them to honour their obligations. We have been fortunate in being able to hold our level of imported Polish coal and I should like to thank the Polish authorities, whom I visited in Warsaw, for enabling us to retain that situation when in other circumstances our supply of Polish coal could have been cut off.

The Americans are prepared to sell us a particular type of coal at a certain price. They can fix their price. The Australians, with whom certain Irish firms have had contact, are very choosey. They point out that coal is a sellers' market and they would do business on their terms which includes long term contracts. They will not sell spot coal. What am I expected to do as Minister for Industry and Commerce facing a winter? Am I expected to tell coal importers that they cannot buy any coal because Deputy Desmond or other people consider it too expensive? Where is the coal supposed to come from? We do not have any of our own. We cannot fix the price; that is fixed by the sellers and that will be the situation for a number of years to come. There is no doubt that domestic coal and, perhaps, in the future steam coal, will be a sellers' market. It is futile to make complaints here that have no bearing on the situation.

Obviously, the Minister does not try to burn any coal.

The increase allowed in the price of coal this year was 9.2 per cent and not 10.5 per cent as mentioned in the motion. The original application by the firm concerned was cut back considerably by the National Prices Commission and myself, so much so that the firm told me—it was legitimate for them to tell me—that they may have to pull out of certain markets. If I am satisfied that they are in that danger I will have to relax further to the minimum extent necessary to enable them to ensure they get the supplies our consumers need.

It is worth noting the position in relation to bottled gas. We have had a number of increases in this commodity over the past nine months—if I am not mistaken there were four increases. It should be remembered that this is an oil product, a by-product of the oil refining process. It is subject to the same constraints as oil. I recently cut back a recommendation of the National Prices Commission in relation to this commodity although I realised it was dangerous to cut it back seriously. I cut that recommendation because I was not satisfied with the evidence put forward by the firm concerned in relation to its purchases on the spot market. I told them I would reconsider that aspect of the application when they produced better and proper evidence.

The result of the careful way that bottled gas has been controlled and monitored by the National Prices Commission and me over the past year, in spite of the enormous increases in crude oil, approaching 200 per cent in some cases, is that the ordinary standard domestic cylinder costs in Britain £4.69 while the same cylinder, containing the same amount of gas coming from the British oil fields in the North Sea, costs in Ireland £3.56. In other words, it is £1.13 cheaper. What is Deputy Desmond complaining about if bottled gas here is £1.13 per cylinder cheaper than it is in the country which produces it and has it on its own doorstep? I cannot see any failure to exercise the most careful and stringent control over that.

The Minister should ask Calor-Kosangas about that.

The result of this is that there is a danger of a run on bottled gas in Border counties by people from Northern Ireland. That is a fact we cannot forget. Deputy Desmond complained bitterly about the rise in CIE fares but I should like to point out that the National Prices Commission found that, based on CIE's recent application, the company would be justified in putting up their fares by 44 per cent. The increase granted was 20 per cent. The enormous unfortunate subsidy that has to be paid to CIE now stands at £56 million when it was £20 million two years ago. What does the Deputy think the fares would be if that enormous subsidy was not paid. What is it but a subsidy of passengers and, to a lesser extent, a subsidy of freight.

The recent increase in the price of bread was 4p and not 5p as reported in the newspapers. The 5p increase was for a loaf that is not as popular as the ordinary loaf. The need for that increase was brought about by an increase in the price of flour due to higher prices being paid for wheat and much higher labour costs. There is no way either of those items can be controlled. I do not fix the price Irish farmers get for their wheat. I believe they get the highest price in Europe and, unfortunately, if they do consumers here must pay for that. There is no way that situation can be avoided. There are a lot of such individual cases that one would like to go through.

It is interesting to look at what the ESB's costs are now as a result of their heavy dependence on oil. They got seriously out of line as a result of that situation. It is interesting to note that their annual fuel costs for 1980-81 have been estimated by them to be £211 million and their total actual revenue for 1978-79 was only £223 million. In those circumstances, with the ESB so enormously dependent on oil, is it any wonder that they have to put up their prices by substantial amounts. The Deputy forgot to mention that in the first two years of this Government, and before those enormous oil increases came on, the ESB reduced their prices twice, in one case by 5 per cent and in the other case by 7 per cent, but we did not hear much here about those decreases.

The question of price control has been monitored vigorously and followed up by me. Unlike my predecessor, I have taken a constant personal interest in this area. In accordance with our undertaking in the manifesto, I have not acted as a rubber stamp at any time. I have not pawned everything off to a junior Minister in the Department, which was what my predecessor did when he acquired a junior Minister and when he gave up all interest in the matter of price control. Despite the undoubted problems we are experiencing, I am very glad to be able to finish as I began, that is, on a cheerful note. I have been asked for the official estimate of the mid-February figure for the CPI, but I cannot give the figure because it will not be published for some weeks yet. However, there is a decrease in the rate of inflation to mid-February from the mid-November figure and that is something I find very heartening. It is indicative of the efforts that are made within the enormous limitations which constrain the Government and which constrain me to keep under the most effective management possible the monitoring and control of these prices.

We in Fine Gael support fully this motion in the names of Members of the Labour Party. Prices have been increasing rapidly and are getting seriously out of control.

The Minister has quoted some interesting statistics in regard to the price of oil. He quoted the various prices for crude oil, light oil and for oil purchased on the spot market. However, I have some figures which I should like to put before the House. These relate to the market price for Ireland in respect of Saudi-Arabian light crude oil. I shall outline the prices from January 1973 to January 1980.

In January 1973 a barrel of SaudiArabian oil cost $2.60. In January 1974 the price had increased to $10.55. This was a quadrupling of the price during that year. Never before had this country experienced an increase of that order in the price of oil. In January 1975 the price stood at $11.10, while in January 1976 the price was $11.80. In January 1977 the price had increased to $12.95 and about half way through that year had dropped to $12.70. Early in January 1979 the price increased again to $13.34. In April of that year the price stood at $14.55 while in the following July it had increased to $18. In December 1979 the price stood at $24.00 and in January of this year we were paying approximately $26.00 for this product. It will be seen, therefore, that after a fourfold increase in price in one of the years under consideration oil prices continued to spiral until January 1977 when they decreased and held until early 1979. It will be noted from the figures I have given that the price has not quite doubled from early 1979 to date. I am speaking of the product of one country but the figures give the picture for oil products generally. It was while we were in Government that there was the fourfold increase.

The Government have been quoting from the CPI. From mid-November 1973 to mid-November 1974 the inflation rate was 20 per cent. Up to 1976 inflation was running at 20.6 per cent. Then it decreased to 10.8 per cent between 1976 and 1977. The policies that were being adopted by the Coalition Government contributed significantly to the decrease in the inflation rate at that time. From 1977 to 1978 inflation admittedly decreased to 7.9 per cent, but we now have a figure of 16 per cent. Regarding the Minister's forecast that the figures this year will show a decrease in inflation, all I can say is that time will tell.

At the time when we were experiencing what was perhaps the most savage inflation rate ever suffered by any country Fianna Fáil, who were then in opposition, were calling for the introduction of food subsidies and such subsidies were introduced by the then Minister for Finance. In this regard I shall quote from the Official Report for 14 November 1978, column 871. The speaker was Deputy O'Donoghue and he said:

A predominant part of that package was a package to introduce food subsidies. Fianna Fáil had already been campaigning for that. I can quote speeches in the autumn of 1974 in the early days of the oil crisis and its aftermath. I can point to speeches and statements made then by the present Taoiseach and Tánaiste advocating the introduction of those subsidies. They were welcomed by Fianna Fáil at that time.

At that time inflation was 20 per cent and now it is 16 per cent. The Government have partly dismantled the food subsidies but I hope that they will have enough wisdom not to dismantle them further. For the sake of all those who are hit most by inflation in terms of the prices of food, of heating and of transport—I refer particularly to old age pensioners, to those in receipt of social welfare payments generally and to children—I appeal to the Government to restore the food subsidies that they have dismantled.

A man earning £60 or £70 a week finds it very difficult to feed and clothe a wife and family. Therefore every effort should be made to cushion the price increases being introduced week after week. With the abolition of the wealth tax, the car tax and so on, the Government have left themselves very little room to manoeuvre.

Is the Deputy in favour of the reintroduction of the wealth tax?

I will discuss that later. The working man has seen the wealthy man getting relief by the abolition of the wealth tax while he, the working man, is being taxed to the hilt. This was one cause of the present unrest and was further aggravated by the withdrawal of the food subsidies. The last national understanding granted very large pay increases because the trade unions realised they would have to fight hard to get a fair deal for their members. If the Government had handled the economy properly those wage increases would not have been so high.

Everybody is feeling the economic pinch. The cost of every commodity is increasing—electricity, postal services, bread, butter and so on. These are the items we hear about but there are countless other increases about which we never hear. The price of drugs is rising rapidly. I have been told that in the past few months these increases have been of the order of 20 or 30 per cent and I do not think I have heard anybody mention these increases. Drugs are very essential for families who do not have medical cards. These people have to pay their doctors and their chemists. If they cannot afford the drugs their children may become seriously ill. The National Prices Commission should look at these matters.

I could criticise the Government's approach to price increases indefinitely but I want to say something positive about this. I want to discuss our food markets. In The Irish News, Thursday, 14 February 1980 the headline read “Shock figures show we import 90 p.c. of our foodstuffs”. The first paragraph read:

Shock figures uncovered during an investigation at retail level into sales of foodstuffs in Northern Ireland show that a full 90 per cent is imported from Britain and elsewhere.

There seems to be an alarming increase in the importation of foodstuffs in the North and I am afraid this will happen here. If a chain of supermarkets were to get control of our grocery trade it could lead to a serious situation. Our prices could be affected if the grocery trade were in the hands of too few people. Irrespective of the goodwill of any Minister, Coalition or Fianna Fáil, if such a situation were to arise he may not be able to control it.

I looked at our figures for imported preserved and processed foods. In 1973 we imported approximately 150,000 metric tonnes and in 1978 we imported 400,000 metric tonnes. The food processing industry is of considerable importance to the agricultural community and to the processing trade. We must maintain our food processing plants. That is very important for our present and future price structure. A responsible person should thoroughly investigate the food, home produced and imported, on sale in our supermarkets. Recently I went to a supermarket and I saw a very big container delivering goods imported from Britain. People from the agricultural sector, the processing trade and the Department should look into this matter.

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 21 February 1980.
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