asked the Minister for Labour if he will make a statement on the anticipated effect of micro-processors on employment in Ireland.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Micro-Processors Employment Effect.
19.
The employment impact of micro-processors will be felt in two main ways:
—first, in the manufacture of micro-processors and products incorporating them;
—second, as a result of the application of such products to the production process in other industries.
Ireland is in a position to benefit greatly from the growth of electronics manufacturing and Deputies will be aware of recent progress. For example, employment in the production of micro-processors and products incorporating them at June 1979 is estimated at 10,000 as against 5,000 in January 1973 and is expected to grow to between 25,000 and 30,000 in 1985.
I am examining the occupational implications of this projected increase in employment.
With regard to the impact of microprocessor applications on employment in industry and services, relatively little concrete information is available. To improve our information the National Board for Science and Technology are undertaking a study of the various effects caused by the introduction of micro-electronic technology. A steering group, on which my Department are represented, are monitoring progress.
The study will assess, in the context of the Irish economy over the periods 1980 to 1985 and 1985 to 1990, the new industrial and employment opportunities arising and the potential impact of micro-electronic technology on the nature and level of employment in existing manufacturing and service industry. Until this study is completed it would not be possible to quantify with such reliability the precise employment impact.
Would the Minister not agree that he has performed an extraordinary feat here this afternoon in referring to the effect of micro-processors on employment only in a positive sense? Is the Minister not aware that one union alone has already indicated a forecast of up to 80,000 jobs that could be lost in the commercial and administrative sector, and that many of these jobs are at present done by women workers? Does he not consider this danger real enough to comment on at this stage?
I am aware of the comments made by the Deputy. But, as I said in the course of my reply, it is a very early stage. I would also point out to him that it is not possible to quantify the likely impact on employment. But we in this country have much better prospects of getting, first of all, the new "greenfield" and job creating and manufacturing enterprises, which is on the positive side and, on the other side, our existing industry is, in relative terms, much less vulnerable because we have fewer of the traditional electro-mechanical industries. I say that in a positive way because of course we must be concerned about the possible impact. I am not so sure that mention of figures that, at this stage at any rate, certainly cannot be substantiated is of any help in situations such as the Deputy mentioned.
Would the Minister not agree that our industry is more vulnerable because such a high proportion of our industry is and will continue to be service industry which is precisely the industry where jobs are threatened by micro-processors?
I would not agree with what the Deputy has to say at all. The opinions offered are the reverse. But it is early days and it is impossible to quantify exactly the impact on employment at the moment. It is of concern, of course; I accept that. But the Deputy will also be aware, when he mentions statements by certain people, that these people have admitted in public that they been suggested at this stage either.
Would the Minister not accept that there is a universal tendency in manufacturing industry and, indeed, in service industry in the private sector, for employers to turn profits into machinery rather that more jobs for people, that this increases the likely deleterious effect of the micro-processors and that the Government's taxation policy with regard to companies encourages it?
I would not agree with that. As a matter of fact my party and my Government have always had the social needs and particularly the employment needs of our people at heart to a far greater extent than any other Government during the history of this country.
Does the Minister not think that it might have been desirable to have some representation at the seminar organised by that union at which a very useful discussion took place and which the Government totally ignored?
That is not true. As a matter of fact, the Opposition parties will be pleased to know that on the body to which I referred in my reply, the ICTU and the employer bodies are represented as well as my own Department. Herein lie the studies that are needed to know what really is going to be the impact. It is early days yet here.
I wish to pay tribute to the IDA who have been so successful in procuring the kind of industry that is most beneficial in our circumstances. We can increase employment in such a situation. I referred also to the fact that we have now a newer industrial scene that should be less affected than more industrialised countries.
The Minister did not reply to my question. Perhaps he would do so now? Does he not think it would have been a good thing for the Government to have been represented when the seminar was held when this matter was fully discussed and where expert information was available? Why were the Government not represented? Others of us went because we thought the matter was sufficiently important.
That may well be so. I can assure the Deputy that the Government are not only concerned but have been very active in endeavouring to quantify what effects might arise. The Deputy in Opposition likes to be a scaremonger; he likes to highlight figures he cannot justify. I wish to tell the Deputy if he wants any information——
If he wants any information on figures he will go to the Minister.
——on the progress being made in this important area, I shall be happy to give it to him. I appreciate that some people in his party do not understand the importance of the future of this industry and its possible implications.
The Minister should have been at the seminar. He might have learned something from it.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
Does the Minister not accept that in the future the nature of employment will be changed and that this has implications for education? I know there has been a recent development in Cork. Is the Minister's Department in consultation with the Department of Education about providing for future jobs in the micro-processing industry and in the computer industry generally?
Yes. It has been the concern of the Manpower Consultative Committee also. I agree with the Deputy that it is probable that the effects of micro technology will have implications for the future.
Will the Minister say what his Department are doing to prepare the work force in this matter?
We have spent ten minutes on one question.
I have answered several questions on this matter already and if the Deputy consults the Official Report he will find my answers. However, if he wishes to put a question down on the Order Paper I will give him the information he requires.