The time allocation now will have to be 14 minutes for the question and seven minutes for the reply.
Adjournment Debate. - Northern Ireland Pensioners.
I gave notice earlier today of my intention to raise on the Adjournment of the House this evening the question of the adequacy of the arrangements being made by the health boards to meet the immediate financial needs of people living in the Republic who have pensions coming from Northern Ireland and who are unable to have their pension cheques cashed at the moment because of the industrial dispute in the Northern Bank and the Ulster Bank, upon whom those cheques are drawn, concerning transactions involving the conversion of the British £ Sterling into the Irish £. At the moment approximately 2,000 pensioners living in the Republic are receiving pensions from Northern Ireland. These people have not received any of their pensions since December. Many, or indeed most of them, are already living on very low incomes and are unlikely to have reserves on which to draw to meet the situation of being for almost three months without any pension cheques. The fact that their number is small does not, in any sense, mitigate the seriousness of the problem. If a larger number were involved, I am sure something would have been done by now because of the political and moral pressures which a large number of pensioners deprived of their pensions for about three months would have brought to bear on all the parties involved in this dispute. The number in this case, however, is small and nothing has been done, so far to cope with the problem.
About three weeks ago, when the matter was brought to my attention, I contacted the Minister for Finance, the Minister for Social Welfare and the Irish Banks Standings Committee. I asked the Irish Banks Standing Committee to have something done so that these cheques could be met and the people paid. It is incumbent on all the parties to do something about this very serious problem which has left certain pensioners in a serious situation.
To illustrate the matter more exactly, I propose to read an extract from a letter which I received from one such pensioner, a lady living in Dublin city.
I am in receipt of a social welfare pension from Stormont which is payable to me each month by cheque since the death of my husband in 1975.... When my February cheque came to hand on the 15th February, I tried to cash same at every bank in Dublin, but they refused to cash it, due to the bank dispute in Northern Ireland concerning the Irish punt. This monthly cheque helps to pay the rent for my one bedroom flat I occupy here now and I have to draw on my small capital in order to prevent my rent from getting into arrears. I wrote to Stormont asking them what arrangements they had made for Northern Ireland pensioners to receive their pensions, but received no reply.
These are the main points from that letter. That pensioner is obiviously in a very serious financial situation.
The matter that I have asked to have raised here today is somewhat narrower than the general question. I have asked the Minister to investigate the adequacy of the arrangements being made in the meantime, for so long as this dispute lasts, to pay out money to these people to keep body and soul together.
I am aware that the health boards through their powers to give supplementary welfare assistance, have the facility to meet this problem. They can either make absolute payments to these people which would not be refundable or, alternatively, they could give them a loan of money equivalent to the amount of their pension, so that when they do cash their pension cheques—presumably when the dispute is over and all the cheques come together for cashing—the money paid out by the health board can be refunded to them by the pensioner, thereby ensuring that the State is not at a loss. I am convinced that one or other arrangement should be made in this case to ensure that these people receive an income. The fact that they are Northern Ireland pensioners does not take from the responsibility of the Minister or the health boards in this matter. These people are now living in this jurisdiction and if they have not got anything to live on, it is our responsibility in this House and in this jurisdiction to do something to make sure that they have.
I ask the Minister to instruct all the health boards to make it widely known in their areas to any Northern Ireland pensioners who are unable to cash their cheques that if they contact their local welfare officer money will be made available to them to tide them over until such time as this dispute is ended and the cheques which they are now receiving and are unable to cash can, in fact, be cashed. Perhaps the Government could make some arrangements with the Northern Ireland authorities to recoup that money if necessary but, in any event, eventually the dispute will be over and the money can then be recouped and any short-term problem of finance of the health boards will be overcome.
I hope the Minister will be able to act on this matter immediately, in view of the fact that these people have already suffered considerable hardship. I would ask the Minister to make a definite announcement on the matter, if not tonight, within the next two or three days.
The Deputy has supplied some details in quoting from a letter concerning a lady in Dublin who is having difficulty. If he would like to give us those details afterwards, we shall certainly follow that case or any other cases which he may come across.
I have two cases, in fact.
Right. Any person in receipt of a Northern Ireland pension who is experiencing any undue hardship, as a result of the industrial dispute in the North of Ireland banks, can apply to a community welfare officer for a supplementary welfare allowance and some have been doing this.
The health boards have been circularised requesting that they adopt the most liberal approach possible in dealing with people affected by the dispute, to avoid any hardship which might occur as a result. This is part of the point to which Deputy Bruton refers. To date, only a very small number of cases have arisen and these have been dealt with sympathetically by the health boards. As I said, if the Deputy has any details of cases which have not been treated satisfactorily, I shall have them investigated immediately.
The letter which was sent to the health boards was to each programme manager in the community care section of the health board.
The Minister for Social Welfare is concerned that persons in receipt of pensions from Northern Ireland should, as far as possible, be cushioned against any hardship arising from the above dispute. Accordingly, the Minister requests that health boards should adopt the most liberal approach possible in dealing with people affected by the dispute, seeking help by way of the supplementary welfare allowances scheme.
That was a letter concerning the bank dispute in Northern Ireland, sent on 14 March to each health board.
Was that after I had raised the matter last week?
It was 14 March. I could not say exactly when the Deputy raised the matter. Obviously it was very close to it.
In effect, a letter has gone to them to that effect. Certainly, I accept the point made by the Deputy requesting the health boards to make it known to the people concerned that this facility is available and to do what they can in that respect. I am not quite clear on how they can make it known most readily. Perhaps raising the matter here will help make it known in the first instance. I will ask them if they can do anything further to ensure that the people concerned know of the facility that is there for them in the event of their needing it. If the Deputy or any other Deputy has details of any cases where hardship is arising I shall be only too glad to look into it directly.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.55 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 20 March 1980.