asked the Minister for Education if, in respect of fees charged for adult education classes, he will distinguish between socially necessary courses, in particular those dealing with literacy, and other courses and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Adult Education Classes.
10.
Under section 41 (4) of the Vocational Education Act, 1930, a vocational education committee may with the approval of the Minister for Education remit either in whole or in part any fees which they are entitled to charge under this section. Such fees would include fees charged for adult education courses. Committees are therefore enabled to remit either in whole or in part fees chargeable for adult education courses in cases of inability to pay. A similar situation prevails for adult education courses organised in the community and comprehensive schools' sector.
May I take it that the Minister has not asked the vocational educational committees to ensure that adult education courses are self-financing?
The Deputy asked the Minister for Education if, in respect of fees charged for adult education classes, he will distinguish between socially necessary courses, in particular those dealing with literacy, and other courses and if he will make a statement. I have stated that the vocational education committees have full power to remit fees in cases of inability to pay.
May I take it that the Minister's position is not that which is publicly understood and that committees may, in relation to socially necessary courses such as literacy, numeracy, dyslexia and retirement courses, advertise less than full economic prices?
The Minister is operating within the 1930 Act which empowers committees to remit fees in cases of inability to pay.
May I take it that the Minister has nevertheless directed the vocational education committees to ensure that they charge the full cost of adult education courses? Is that correct?
The vocational education committees know that the Minister for Education operates within the law and that within the law they are entitled to remit fees in cases of inability to pay. That adequately answers the question and covers the social need as well.
Would the Minister be prepared to reimburse the vocational education committees for all moneys they would forego in the event of their remitting fees on a substantial scale, particularly if they are operating in areas such as Leitrim where almost the whole population could be defined as being necessitous?
I do not accept that about my neighbours in County Leitrim.
The Minister should answer the question.
I am answering the question as it was asked to me. I was asked if, in respect of fees charged for adult education classes, I would distinguish between socially necessary courses, in particular those dealing with literacy, and other courses and if I would make a statement on the matter. I am saying that the distinction is already there in the Act and——
It is not. That is a lie.
The Deputy may not attribute a lie to the Minister. Will the Deputy withdraw the remark?
May I say——
Will the Deputy withdraw the remark?
Will you allow me to do so? I am entitled to do it in a sentence. In answering the question——
The Chair will deal with the matter as the Chair sees fit without dictation from any Deputy on any side of this House. Will the Deputy withdraw the remark.
I will.
Thank you.
The direction which the Minister has given is that all adult education courses, irrespective of whether or not they are socially necessary, should attract a full economic fee. To that extent I am saying that the Minister has distorted the truth in this House but apart from that I am satisfied to retract the word "lie".
Would the Minister be prepared to reimburse the vocational education committees for fees they do not charge either because they deem people to be necessitous or the courses to be necessary?
That is a separate question.
The Minister is distorting the truth.
I am asking for the protection of the Chair because Deputy Collins is cutting in on my good friend, Deputy Bruton, to whom I am not allowed to reply because Deputy Collins wants to dominate the House. I have written to the vocational education committees and asked that the average fee of £3.50 be raised by 40 per cent. I am saying that within the law they may remit fees for people who are unable to pay.
Will the Minister reimburse them?
If the Deputy puts down a question on that matter I will answer it.
Does the Minister know the answer?
He does. He has to know all the answers.
I am calling Question No. 11.
Will the Minister make a comment on the recent statement by Mr. Donegan of the Dublin Vocational Education Committee that they will have to raise adult education fees by 100 per cent?
I am not convinced that the statement was non-political.