asked the Minister for Health if he will outline the Government's attitude in regard to facilitating access by Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas and the general public to health board homes and residential care institutions; if he is satisfied with the present position regarding access; and if he has any plans to introduce changes in these respects.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Access to Homes and Institution.
30.
The question of access to the homes and institutions referred to by the Deputy is a matter for the health boards. Each of the boards has arrangements for committees of its members to visit their institutions regularly. These committees may include Members of the Houses of the Oireachtas who are on the health boards.
Inquiries which I have made from the boards indicate that any request for access by other persons to homes and institutions is considered on its merits and that generally no difficulties have arisen in relation to the arrangements.
I am satisfied that the boards are acting reasonably in the matter and I do not think that I should take action to introduce changes in the procedures.
Does the Minister not know of a number of instances where Members of this House were refused admission to health board homes and residential care institutions, including members of his own party? Does he believe it should be necessary for a Member of this House to apply formally for the normal courtesy of admission to a home or institution publicly funded?
I have a summary of the complaints received through the different health boards. I will summarise very briefly. In the case of the Eastern Health Board, there has been no complaint from any public representative about access to the board's institutions. In the case of the Midland Health Board, there has been no recent complaint from public representatives about access. In the case of the Mid-Western Health Board the situation is similar. In the case of the North-Eastern Health Board, no complaint was received about access to institutions. In the case of the North-Western Health Board, no such request was received in the recent past. In the case of the SouthEastern Health Board, similarly there was no complaint.
In regard to the Western Health Board, there was one incident which was widely reported. Perhaps that is the one to which the Deputy is referring. That was considered by the other public representatives who are members of the standing committee associated with the board. They reached agreement with the Deputy concerned. In effect, the resident medical superintendent has the statutory function in relation to the operation of psychiatric hospitals under his control. There are arrangements through the boards and through the public representatives who are appointed to the various committees to visit through visiting committees, standing committees, and so on. When other Deputies have indicated a desire to visit, they have been accommodated.
Does the Minister accept that the number of reports may bear no relationship to the actual number of incidents to which I have referred? People may not necessarily report or complain to the board but may go away in high dudgeon, or offended, or rebuffed. As a matter of principle one should not have to grovel for access to homes and institutions which are publicly funded, particularly when there have been so many allegations recently about practices and procedures which perhaps should be more modern than they have been up to now.
I can only deal with factual situations which are raised in a factual way. We have an inspector of mental institutions and he can inspect any mental institution on my behalf. If any complaints are brought to my attention I will certainly take them up. I will certainly take up any complaints raised by Deputies. These complaints have not been raised formally. I accept, as the Deputy says, that people may have requested access and not been given it at the time at which they requested it or on the conditions requested. If that is so, they should bring it to our attention.
Is the Minister not aware that the composition of the visiting committees is not very important. They are members of the health committees, or the health authorities, or the health boards, who go around to the various hospitals on behalf of the boards. The Minister is being asked is he aware that Members of this House should not have to have their applications vetted by the visiting committees. Their requests should be acceded to without any trouble by the chief executive of the health board concerned. Would he now take steps to ensure that when a Member of this House applies formally to visit an institution in this State that request is acceded to immediately by the chief executive officer of each and every health board in the State?
I cannot agree with the Deputy that the members of the local committees are not important. These are the locally elected representatives and they have this specific task. They were appointed for that reason. On the question of access for Deputies, if a Deputy brings to my attention the fact that he is not being allowed access I will be happy to investigate the particular incident. Deputies must realise that the health boards have statutory authority and statutory functions. It would not be desirable that just because a person is a member of this House he should feel that he had to investigate all the activities of the health boards. If Deputies feel they are not getting reasonable courtesy and access, we will certainly take that up. When we gave statutory authority to the health boards we gave it to them to carry out their jobs with certain committees and administrative arrangements. We will stand behind those arrangements because we have tended to centralise and bureaucratise the whole operation.
No one disputes that.
While I am not aware of any complaint regarding outmoded practices or procedures, will the Minister explain whether Members of the House who are charged with responsibility for acting as spokesmen on behalf of their parties have to go through any procedure before they will be admitted to health board hospitals or institutions, bearing in mind the arrangements that apply in other Departments in relation to the shadow spokesmen.
I as Minister would go through procedures before I visited any of these hospitals. My understanding is that quite frequently representatives have access. If the Deputy wishes I can read out the kind of access representatives have been having. Deputies are normally granted access as a courtesy and there have been no complaints to me in relation to that.
A final question.
The question is whether before spokesmen are allowed to visit health board institutions the matter has to be discussed by the health board.
A final question from Deputy Fitzpatrick.
Not generally. But in one instance, as the Deputy knows, a Deputy rather than a spokesman raised—
I am talking about myself.
There has been no problem other than one in which a Deputy raised a specific—
I sorted it out without going to the Minister.
(Cavan-Monaghan): In order to remove the problems and clarify the matter will the Minister consider arranging with the chief executive officer of each health board to issue a pass or authorisation to each elected representative in his area and to the spokesmen for the Opposition parties, asking the staffs of those hospitals to facilitate the bearers of the card in visiting these institutions? There is a precedent for this, as the Minister may or may not know, and it is a very good idea.
I will consider that. My understanding is that this is done as a normal courtesy, but I will discuss it with the chief executives.
(Cavan-Monaghan): If it were done it would eliminate all this wrangling.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.
Perhaps the Chair will inform me why he disallowed a Special Notice Question—
The Deputy knows that he is being disorderly in raising this.
I am not being disorderly.
The Deputy was informed of the reasons for my ruling and it is most disorderly to attempt to raise this matter here.
I do not understand the Chair's attitude to this.
The Deputy was given the reason. I will not go into any argument on it.
I got no reason. The Ceann Comhairle did not know—
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy was given the reason and he is being totally out of order.
The factory is being raided by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, Deputy O'Malley, and 60 girls will lose their jobs next week.
I am calling on the Deputy to resume his seat.
I will under protest that the Chair is aiding and abetting. This Dáil is getting more like "Washington Behind Closed Doors" every day of the week. The Ceann Comhairle is a disgrace.
Will the Deputy withdraw that?
I will not withdraw it.
Will the Deputy withdraw it?
I will not withdraw it.
(Interruptions.)
It is grossly disorderly.
I withdraw it.