It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 2, 3, 8 (resumed), 9, 10, 13 (resumed) and 11. Business will be interrupted at 2 p.m. to take Items Nos. 13 and 11 and the order will not be resumed thereafter.
Order of Business.
In view of the fact that, in response to press and public opinion, the Government have decided to climb down in their decision to try to suppress this debate and have decided to allow it to continue at 2 o'clock——
A question, Deputy.
——today, I do not propose to press the point of order further on this matter. But I point out to the Chair, as a point of order, that its decision to agree to the reversal of the order of speakers last night, in putting in Deputy Ryan in advance of Deputy Lenihan was done for the specific and stated purpose of enabling Deputy Lenihan to conclude and that, therefore, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle was not in order in suggesting that the matter be adjourned.
That is totally incorrect. The Chair has ruled over many years that agreements and understandings come to between the parties are not orders of the House and cannot be enforced by the Chair. In those circumstances, when there was no limit to the debate——
Deputy
Joke of the century.
As there was no time limit to the debate the Chair had no option but to act as it did act. I am not going to enter into any discussion on this matter.
In justice to the Chair, the Chair should not attempt to tell the House and the country that there was no time limit to the debate when every single person knows there was a time limit to the debate and it was agreed.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I have already stated——
The Chair is not doing justice to himself.
——and will repeat that over the years——
Do not compromise the Chair.
——agreements or understandings come to between parties are not orders of the House and cannot be enforced by the Chair.
I do not know what the Chair has said.
Just to be clear on what the Chair is ordering as business, what precisely will happen at 2 o'clock today?
I call Item No. 13.
Is there a time limit on it? Will there be a vote at the end of it? What precisely is the position?
There is no order of the House to that effect.
Thank you very much. I want to make one final point. What happened here last night has undoubtedly damaged this House and parliamentary democracy.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
The Deputy is not in order in making statements——
It clarified one thing——
The Deputy is not in order in making statements.
——Fianna Fáil is still a strictly constitutional party but it is no longer Republican.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Vote Fianna Fáil and join the British Army.
Item No. 2. The Minister for the Environment.
I hope that this is on the Order of Business.
(Interruptions.)
This is on the Order of Business, as Deputy Cluskey's remarks were not, of course, as always. It is our intention that the Minister for Foreign Affairs should take the approximately ten minutes left to him and then there should be a vote on the Motion and the amendments——
The Taoiseach has changed the Order of Business. There is no order. It was clarified by the Chair.
That is not the order.
(Interruptions.)
This is substituting an order of the House.
On a point of order.
The Deputy wanted an order.
I have already clarified the position.
Would the Chair please clarify to the House under what procedure the vote will be taken at that time? There is either an agreement to a three-and-a-half-hour debate, which the whole country knows there was and the Chair knows there was, in which case the three-and-a-half hours is up and the vote must be taken at 2 o'clock, or there is no such agreement, in which case the debate does not conclude after the Minister, but can continue. There is no possible Order of the House or Standing Order under which the Chair may conclude the debate after three hours and forty minutes, and the Chair knows that.
On the Order of Business, has the Chair not, in response to a question from me, already defined the precise position and is he going to reverse it?
I am not going to reverse it. I call item No. 13.
There is no order, is that the position?
That seems to be the position.
Did I hear the Chair correctly? Is that agreed?
It is agreed.
On a point of order, did I hear the Chair correctly two minutes ago saying that there is no order in regard to the resumed No. 13?
Deputies
Yes.
Did we hear the Chair correctly or not?
That is what the Chair said.
All I said was that so far as I was concerned I would call Item No. 13. I would call the Minister who was speaking and after that the vote can be taken if there is agreement on it.
But there is no order? Did you say there was no order?
Surely the Deputy is not suggesting that we have a gentleman's agreement with them.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
(Interruptions.)
If the House wishes, the House can decide now on having a vote.
At the moment there is no order. Is that the position?
I have already explained my position. If the House wishes, it can decide now when to have the vote.
But as of now——
The Chair has already ruled on this. There have been three different rulings.
No, it is not three different rulings. I have explained what the position is. What I am saying now is if the House wishes it can decide now because we are on the Order of Business.
There is no order as of now.
There is no order. Is that not what the Chair said?
That is correct.
The Order of Business has been agreed. Is that correct?
(Cavan-Monaghan): On a point of order, am I correct in assuming that a debate may conclude in one of three ways, when discussion ends, by agreement or by a guillotine or time motion. Those are the only three ways known to me by which a debate can be concluded. Am I right in thinking that?
And by agreement, yes.
(Cavan-Monaghan): I said by agreement.
What happened to the agreement?
The agreement was three-and-a-half hours and the three-and-a-half hours is up.
Enough damage has been done to the proceedings of this House. I am asking the Chair if it, in clarification, will rule that the Minister for Foreign Affairs will resume the adjourned debate from yesterday evening, will conclude after approximately ten to 15 minutes and that a vote will then be taken. Leave aside gentlemen's agreements, they do not exist any more. Is the Order of Business specific on that point or is it not?
If the House agrees to that, then that is what will happen. However, the House must agree now. May I make this point. We are on the Order of Business and if the House agrees to the case made by Deputy Quinn, then it will be part of the Order of Business.
We have no hesitation whatsoever in agreeing to the Minister for Foreign Affairs concluding, followed by a vote, or, if the House wishes, to have the vote at precisely 2 o'clock.
That is what was agreed, a vote at 2 o'clock. That was the agreement. Three-and-a-half-hours was the agreement between the Whips.
Does the House agree?
Two o'clock by agreement.
I want to make it clear that, once it is agreed by order of the House, the vote will take place at 2 o'clock.