There appears to be an air of expectancy and anxiety in what I have to say, speaking again on an occasion such as this especially in the light of today's events. I have to compliment previous speakers here today. I have listened with great interest to the contributions made by Deputies on both sides, some of them making their first speech in this House. I know from my own experience that it is not the most encouraging aspect of a day's work to think that you have to face deliberation in this House, but I must compliment them on their contributions, particularly Deputy Higgins and Deputy Begley. The remarks of those two Deputies would seem to indicate a shift from die-hard political attitudes and policies in relation to fisheries towards a fairly broad coming together of ideas and notions in relation to the development of our fisheries and the formulation of some sort of fishery plan.
Deputy Higgins advised bringing all items referring to fishing, including roads, harbours and every other aspect, under the Minister's Department and direct control. I was very interested in his detailed outline in relation to the fragmented plan that we have at present. We can all be subject to pressure groups. The Department and the fishermen and all those involved in fishing, be they in the actual fishing, in processing or in the ancillary industries, are crying out for a proper development plan. If we are not to have a common fisheries policy within the structure of the EEC, let us at least be seen to have our own plan in the interim. As somebody said today, we have had far too much talk, hope and expectancy and very little action. I suppose there are as many fishermen in my constituency as there are in those of the other speakers and one would not have to be very Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael to realise that they are in difficulty and that neither Government really had the political will to tackle the basic problems that they have.
Deputy Begley was quite right in his advice to the Minister that we must meet the fishermen. He outlined the problems that the fishermen have and their fear of having been let down and he raised questions in relation to activities of BIM over the years. I would not be in a position to comment on that but his remarks gave me to understand that serious questions remained to be answered. He also mentioned the question of harbour development coming under the Minister's direct control. I can refer to a little pier in my constituency which is not very extravagant in its demands, but the Department and the Bord of Works are not in a position to implement the jobs since, they maintain, the pressure of work in the constituency prevents them from getting it under way. The answer is not good enough for the fishermen.
The Deputy may be a little pessimistic in his view of the fishing industry. My view of it is slightly different in that in recent years — I can speak with accuracy only in relation to the two major ports in my constituency, Killybegs and Burtonport — I have seen great development and great changes. I have seen private individuals taking on expansion of firms and industries. Granted they were very well assisted by the IDA and other State bodies in the formulation of industry there, but the element of risk is always associated with fishing. In these precarious times it is encouraging to see somebody in the private sector prepared to have a go in an industry which is, to say the least of it, running through a very rough period.
The Minister and the officials of his Department should accept comments made here by Members of the House as constructive criticism. They are not offered in a personal manner but in order to be helpful to both the Department and the people directly involved in the fishing industry. I would like to think that my contributions here and my criticism, if I should express it, would be constructive and would be accepted as such. We have in this House on both sides of the political arena many people with great experience and knowledge in relation to the fishing industry. We have former Ministers and many newcomers in the House with great basic and profound knowledge of the fishing industry in its present context, and we must talk about the present. When I was at national school we had a little geography book which outlined the industries of the different counties and so forth and not one of the towns at present engaged in a big way in the fishing industry was listed then as a forerunner in that industry. Brí Chualann was then the forerunner and we have seen what happened there in the course of not too many years. I believe we have had a worthwhile contribution from both these newly-elected representatives and the former Ministers for Fisheries and Forestry. We should be seen to be tackling the problems of today and forget about past judgments and assessments. Mistakes were made and there is no point in dwelling on criticism of those actions. The remedy must be the aim for the future.
I spoke previously on this subject and spent much of my time in dealing with the mackerel fisheries. I appreciate that the fishermen of Donegal in recent months have experienced a bonanza in relation to mackerel fishing and that area surely must be the best mackerel fishery of European countries. However, saying that gives rise immediately to the question of how long this will continue and on the occasion of my last deliberation I referred to the conservation of stocks. Mackerel could quickly become an endangered species because of over-fishing and the exploitation of the quota system.
I would have a prime concern about this in that the two ports to which I referred are within my constituency and about 1,000 people are directly involved in the fishing industry there. These jobs are very badly needed in south-west Donegal and there are not many towns in the area which can boast of such a large number of jobs. Were the fishing industry to collapse in my immediate neighbourhood there would hardly be a household which would not suffer a terrible blow. It was with this in mind that I sounded a note of warning in relation to some form of control of mackerel fishing. The Minister should listen to those involved as well as consulting, if necessary, with experts. There have been cases in other sections of society where consultation did not take place and the people will always have their say in the final analysis.
Although the number of people involved in fishing amounts in terms of votes to about 6,000 or 7,000, they are a breed of people unto themselves. Many of them were reared in the tradition of fishing and do not know any other business. Many are of an age at which they could not be retrained or deployed into other industries. We owe those people every effort since they seem to be a mere minority in the industrial and political sector. Some previous Ministers have listened to the advice of fishermen, but some have not. None of us is infallible and if an error of judgement is made at departmental or local level a Minister should be willing to see the error of his ways and take corrective steps. He should not allow things to continue indefinitely on the wrong track.
I said earlier that control in relation to fishing was very important and I have spoken at length on the conservation of stocks. It does not necessarily follow that if we control the activities of foreign fishermen and luggers which come into our waters we can then say the job is done. We must also exercise control in relation to our own fishermen. We are all susceptible to the same evils of greed for the quick pound and we might not be too worried about damage caused for short-term financial gain. Every possible action should be taken to ensure the longevity of the resources around our coasts.
I wish to refer to infrastructural developments in relation to the fishing industry with particular reference to my constituency. I see here a colleague of mine from south-west Donegal who will be very familiar with the roadworks problems there. The industrial sector of Killybegs cannot develop and expand if the roadwork programme and the network into Killybegs are not given priority. A survey carried out a year or two ago by Donegal County Council established that the road from Donegal to Killybegs was the busiest in the county. These figures can be substantiated by the county engineer. Killybegs is in absolute chaos because the shore road has never been completed. This road links the new pier and the old and should take all the heavy vehicles from the main street, thus alleviating the traffic chaos in the town. For many years it was believed that this road was the responsibility of the Department of Fisheries. This belief was reinforced every time I made a request for planning permission because the Department of Fisheries had to give approval to someone who wished to gain access to the road. This led Donegal County Council and myself to believe that the road was the responsibility of the Department but I have since learned that this is not the case.
I do not see why the Minister for Fisheries, in co-operation with the Minister for the Environment, could not become actively involved in ensuring that the necessary money for this road is provided in the Estimates this year. This matter was clearly referred to by Deputy Lenihan when he visited Killybegs some years ago in his capacity as Minister for Fisheries and an assurance was given that the road would be completed. Unfortunately I have to state that it is still incomplete and I ask the Minister to ensure that an allocation is forthcoming this year.
There should also be some form of proper town plan for Killybegs which would involve the Department of Fisheries, BIM, Donegal County Council and the Department of the Environment. I asked a question about the possibility of such a body being set up. I cannot recall accurately the reply I got then but I cannot see any major difficulty or expense involved in this since we have a county development team and a regional development organisation. On both of those bodies there are representatives from BIM, the Department of Posts and Telegraphs, the Department of Fisheries, Donegal County Council and all of the bodies that would be involved in the formulation of a plan for Killybegs. There are some experts in County Donegal with first class ideas in relation to the development of a plan. Several attempts have been made to clarify the postition but we are still being told that the Department have not made a decision in relation to certain points in relation to Killybegs.
The road from Donegal to Killybegs is in very poor condition. This hampers the development of the town. A very fragmented programme has been implemented in relation to this. There are some areas outside Donegal, between Donegal and Mountcharles, between Mountcharles and Dunkineely and Dunkineely and Killybegs, where one is in terror of meeting one of the lorries or articulated vehicles operating out of Killybegs. I know that Deputy McGinley agrees with me when I say that it is a wonder some of those vehicles can negotiate the road from Burtonport to Donegal. How can a town or industry develop under such conditions?
The development of Killybegs in hampered by the very inadequate water supply there. I might sound extreme in what I am saying in relation to this but I remember at a meeting of Donegal County Council being informed by the assistant county engineer that Killybegs operated last year and the year before by the grace of God. I wondered what he meant but it transpired that if we had two dry months during the summer, particularly during July and August, Killybegs would have been at a standstill because of the lack of water. We have rain there every second day and this is the reason why the ice plant at Killybegs and industry there can function. Donegal County Council have that report from the assistant county engineer. I am sure he would be only too delighted to forward a copy of it to the Department. Since that report was issued some new houses have been built in the town, two new factories have been erected there and several very modern boats come into Killybegs.
The question of the inadequate water supply must be a top priority. The Department should do everything possible to improve the situation because we could have a disaster if we have a prolonged period of good weather. The road from Burtonport to Donegal town is no wider than 18 feet at any point. On one stretch of it around Gweebarra there are 52 corners within the space of one mile. I dread travelling that road in my car after a heavy fish landing at Burtonport because the heavy vehicles which travel that road are unable to remain on their own side of the road. Drivers have to be very careful travelling that road at such a time.
I want to pay tribute to the Department officials in relation to the facilities provided at Killybegs. I refer particularly to the new pier, the other extensions that are envisaged, the new auction hall, which is almost ready for opening, the ice plant and the successful dredging which was carried out in the harbour. I would like to pay tribute to the people who have been involved in the provision of those facilities in Killybegs. Killybegs would be in a very serious position without them particularly in relation to the new boats which have been purchased and for which BIM have made great financial commitments. If those facilities had not been provided the unloading of those vessels would be very slow and cumbersome and this would militate against prices. There are many other items in relation to Killybegs which are still outstanding. We do not expect them to be provided in a short space of time. We expect to wait but are not prepared to wait indefinitely.
On the last occasion I spoke on this subject I mentioned the example we should learn from the exploitation of stock off Cornwall. I wish to state again that that particular mackerel fishery was exhausted within five years mainly because there was not the same development of on shore facilities in the area. The position is slightly different here and that is the reason why I do not agree with what Deputy Begley said. We have an expanding on-shore development in Killybegs and Burtonport. I like to see something like this happening. We should not allow situations to occur where luggers can sit off our coasts, buy our fish and export it without people on shore having any access to the benefits accruing from this.
We cannot allow the Cornwall situation to happen here. We have a limited number of choices. Negotiations with the EEC have not been very fruitful and it is evident that the formulation of a common fisheries policy is a long way off. I would go so far as to say that many of our European partners are not interested in such a policy because the present situation suits them. In the absence of such a policy we are left with the option of endeavouring to impose a licencing system on these luggers. I do not think that would contravene any EEC regulations. This has been done in Canada by way of a local system. I realise that a number of these luggers would be required at peak periods of mackerel fishing but they are not required in such great numbers all the time.
I want to refer to one incident I know of personally. There were 37 factory ships operating off Rathmullen; it was like an armada. The facilities at Rathmullen were not capable of dealing with that number of ships. This is a natural harbour with the greatest water depth along our coasts. I am not sure if the Department have any plans to develop it but even if they did, they would not have effect for a very long time. As I said, I do not expect mackerel fishing to continue at the same rate over the next ten or 12 years. Therefore the question of developing Rathmullen does not arise. However, we have to impose some limitation on the operations. What we are doing is providing facilities for neighbouring countries to exploit a facility we have and at the same time they are over-fishing their quotas.
In Killybegs, Burtonport and other towns there is the question of the existing on-shore industries. Everyone realises there is a large element of risk involved in the fishing industry at the best of times, without deliberately allowing the wholesale over-fishing of our natural resources. Unofficially I have established from fishermen and people involved in the processing industry that over the past three years 1.5 million tons of mackerel were fished off our coast. That cannot continue. There has to be a political determination by all parties to tackle this problem. I offer my support to any constructive policy geared to protect our stocks, within reason and within the confines of the EEC regulations, with the terms of reference to prolong our fishing industry.
I said earlier that Canada operated a coastal state control. While I do not have the full details of this scheme there would be merit in finding out how that State control operates and we could see if we could apply such a control here.
I am weary of the whole EEC attitude to the existing regulations. It suits our European partners to leave the situation as it is. They do not have the political will to finalise a common fisheries policy as is evident from the recent elections because, at worst, they would have to return to their own fishing grounds and, at best, they can fish out our waters over a short period. In my opinion, we should not be trying to be the greatest Europeans.
Contrary to what some Members said here today, we have a duty to protect public money, such as investments by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, the IDA and the local authorities in our existing fishing towns. Local industrialists must be given credit for their endeavours and support, and this includes all involved in the processing industries. Many of these people have submissions before the IDA for expansion. I see this as a very good sign. It is a great tribute to their ingenuity and potential that they are prepared to expand their industries at a time when even the most objective observer can foresee great difficulties in the fishing industry in the not too distant future.
A few people have become involved in net making. They have cut into what was heretofore a German market. I would like the Department and the IDA to ensure continued support for those people and to help them in every way to secure a market which, if allowed, could be handed over to outsiders. The IDA should be very wary of allowing too many people to become involved in one industry. It is only natural if an industry is doing well that somebody else should decide to jump on the band-wagon. There is no point in setting up two or three industries when there is only one outlet because it could lead to the closure of one firm. This is one aspect the Department in their wisdom should look at.
There are also possibilities in engineering works. Deputy Gallagher mentioned the boatyards and their difficulties. I concur with everything he said about those difficulties, many of which are due to the fact that the boatyards with which they compete are subsidised. It is only natural that people purchasing various goods will deal with the firm that can supply those goods at the lowest price. I should like to make my position clear in relation to the boatyard at Killybegs. When that boatyard operated under BIM it got into difficulty. It is clear now, though it may not have been clear seven to ten years ago, that the wooden fishing vessel of the type that is in difficulty now, that is, the 60 to 80-foot vessel, is practically obsolete in terms of catching ability. Possibly at the time it was wrong for BIM to continue to build that type of boat at Killybegs. Today, though, the situation is different. There is a firm there who are capable of building any type of vessel that is required for mackerel fishing. Between Killybegs and Burtonport there are approximately 70 fishing vessels but about 14 of those are totally uneconomical with the result that their skippers are in financial difficulty, a difficulty that has been aggravated by virtue of mounting arrears and accruing interest.
As I said before in this House, it would cost the Department a substantial sum of money to recover those boats but I am still confident that they should be recovered. Having discussed the matter with the people concerned in Killybegs, with the workers and the management there, I am concerned that they would be capable of building boats for the fishermen of a type that would leave them once again in a viable situation. What is encouraging is that many of these people are anxious to find work and this is something that is a rare commodity in the times in which we live. The smaller type of vessel is no longer adequate and is not considered for conversion grants.
It may sound unrealistic to ask the Government in what are difficult financial times to spend up to £4 million on the recovery of boats but in the long term such expenditure would be economically sound and would ensure continued jobs in the boatyard for the next ten to 15 years. I am convinced that the boats having been recovered could be sold, not perhaps in Ireland but outside it. The initial outlay would be substantial but if we allow matters to reach the stage where everything is lost, the situation will be much worse. When I met workers at the boatyard recently they assured me that given the terms of reference of existing fishing requirements they could reach the standard required to build the type of boat that would be viable for the mackerel fishermen. I would hope for the carrying out of an investigation into this situation. There is no point in Department financiers or accountants reporting that a recovery operation would not be viable in the current financial climate. I am talking about how feasible it would be over a number of years in the context of these 12 or 14 boats being put to work again.
I suggest that the Minister should visit Killybegs whenever he can find time to do so and look at the operation there. I know that the sort of operation I am talking about would involve also the Department of Industry and Energy but again I come back to the question of the Minister and his officials consulting the people involved and trying to make financial arrangements on foot of whatever plan might be drawn up. With the proper attitude the entire job could be done in Killybegs.
I am aware that requests have been made to the Department regarding the problem being experienced in the boatyard at Killybegs. This boatyard has been in operation for only a short period but during that time they have proved their worth and have justified serious consideration in any project that either the Department of Industry and Energy or the Department of Fisheries and Forestry could become involved in.
I must refer also to the development of small piers, with particular reference to my own constituency. I mentioned earlier the development which has been grantaided and approved for a little pier at Inver port. That project was approved during the time that the Minister for Agriculture was Minister for Fisheries and Forestry but the whole matter has been bandied about since between the Office of Public Works and Donegal County Council. I must refer also to the pier of Cladnageeragh near Glencar. I am not an engineer but on inspecting this pier within the past six months I did not need specialist knowledge to convince me that the structure there is dangerous. If the Department or Roinn na Gaeltachta or whoever are involved are not in a position to commence work on this project they should at least ensure that there is no admittance to the pier because of its dangerous condition. There could be loss of life by the pier being used by somebody who was not aware of the situation.
I would ask the Minister also to arrange for a report on the pier at Malinbeg and also the one at Creevy. These are small piers but they are very important to the people who use them. I am not talking about the trawlermen but about the small fishermen and those who use the half-deckers. When two or three men must take a boat ashore in a place where there is not even the basic facility of a mooring ring or a slipway, it is asking a bit too much to ask for continued support from us regardless of what side of the political divide we are on.
The same applies to small piers in the St. John's Point area, Ballysaggart, Ballyedderland and Carson's Sound. A basic element required at each of these is a simple ESB light. The people who operate out of there do not need intricate navigational lights but only one or two ESB lights, some source of water, a tap or whatever, and a power point, so that they can have maintenance jobs done on the little boats at the pier without having to take them to a boatyard. I am talking about the small type of boat at a small pier.
We also need basic facilities like mooring rings. It is too late to provide these facilities, which are not very costly, when people have lost their lives. We have had quite an amount of difficulty in this regard in Donegal. Many people associated with the sea have sustained a loss. There is always an element of danger associated with the sea. I know the grief and sorrow which can be caused. Over a period of time the Department should ensure that the basic needs at piers used by fishermen with small vessels or bigger vessels are provided.
I mentioned earlier a proper development plan for fisheries in Killybegs. A very disjointed effort has been made in Killybegs, not from the point of view that the job is not being done, but is being done in such a way that there does not seem to be any set programme. No one seems to know what the other crowd are doing. Somebody queried me recently about the provision of a telephone exchange which was supposed to be sited on grounds which belonged formerly to the Department of Fisheries and Forestry. The Department did not know where the Office of Public Works intended to allow it to be built. The Office of Public Works did not have permission from Donegal County Council. Nobody seemed to be able to tell me who was responsible. With a county development team who are prepared to help, it would be very easy and quite inexpensive to produce a proper plan for the town of Killybegs.
I will not go in detail into the question of salmon fisheries because it has been well and truly covered. There is one item in relation to salmon fishing and the protection of the stock which the Department would do well to take a look at. I refer to a river which is not very far from my own residence and the question of water keepers. This has not been tackled seriously. I heard from locals that on a number of occasions a number of gentlemen arrived from Northern Ireland and pitched camp on a site adjacent to this river and intimidated the water keepers. If we arrived at a river with an abundance of salmon stock and saw ten or 15 hefty looking gentlemen engaged in an illegal activity, and if we were on our own, unarmed and unaided, we would have second thoughts about identifying ourselves. The Inny has a great salmon fishing potential and rod fishing potential and it should be protected. The responsibility for that rests with the Department of Fisheries and Forestry.
I wish the Minister every success in his new post. His job will not be easy. He will have to satisfy many needs which have been there for quite a long time. I offer my support to any project he takes in hand. There seems to be a fair degree of agreement on all sides of the House on the common ground we should tackle in the fisheries programme. I should like to be associated in any way I can with furthering that development.