asked the Minister for Social Welfare (a) the proportion of the insured population who are women, (b) the proportion of claimants for disability benefit who are women and (c) the reason for any significant difference between (a) and (b).
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Women Disability Benefit Claimants.
17.
(Mayo West): It is estimated that approximately 35 per cent of the population insured for all benefits are women and that approximately 47 per cent of current disability benefit claimants are women. The difference in these proportions indicates that there is a higher rate of certified illness among women workers than among men workers.
That would appear to be self-evident from the figures. The question I asked was why.
It is self-explanatory.
It is not.
(Mayo West): I do not know if there is any real answer. It appears that the system as it operates at the moment is that people who apply for disability benefit and other forms of illness claims are certified as being unsuitable for work. I have no comment to make. The figures are clear.
Would the Minister of State request the Minister for Health to investigate this matter as it would appear to have some public health implications?
(Mayo West): Four additional medical referees are being appointed in the Department in an effort to control the disability benefit expenditure generally.
I did not ask about inspectors. I asked about the public health implications. Will the Minister of State refer the matter to the Minister for Health in view of its public health implications?
(Mayo West): I can do that.
Is the Minister of State aware of an article published in the Irish Medical Times last month by Dr. Andrew Rynne in which the eminent doctor, who set about investigating this question of abuse in the disability benefits section of the Minister's Department, concluded and published that 25 per cent of those people in receipt of disability benefit were, in the words of the doctor, dossers? Further, is the Minister of State aware of a report published by the ESRI, I think in January of this year, which expressed concern about abuses in the disability benefits section?
(Mayo West): The Department are always concerned about abuses of the system and we take every possible step to try to ensure that they are corrected.
I would like the Minister of State to be more specific. As he is aware, concern has been expressed about this on quite a number of occasions. Would the Minister of State agree that it is a very serious allegation for a medical practitioner to publish in the Irish Medical Times that 25 per cent of people in receipt of disability benefit are dossers, the word used by the doctor, the author of the article? Firstly, would the Minister of State agree with the view expressed by the eminent medical doctor? If he does agree, will be accept that something needs to be done? If it is not the case would the Minister of State agree that the Minister would need to publish some form of retraction of the allegation? It is a very serious allegation.
(Mayo West): The Department are guided by their medical referee and the people who work on behalf of the Department who try to ensure that they do their work as well as they possibly can. I am aware of the report the Deputy has been talking about and I do not think it is up to me to make any comment on that. As far as we are concerned, under the way things are operated at present the Department are doing their best to try to ensure that the dossers, as the Deputy has referred to them, will be cut out.
I should explain that the reason I raise this is that the Minister of State has referred to having referee doctors. As he is well aware, I am not in any position to comment if he is not in the position to do so, but would he agree that one of the points made by Dr. Rynne in his report — which I gather the Minister of State has read — is that there are only 15 medical referees in the Department dealing with these applications, notwithstanding the fact that 220,000 certificates are sent to the Department every month and that if that is the case plainly the staff of referee doctors there is inadequate? Also I urge the Minister to make some comment to the House and give some indication of his views on the report. He is leaving the House in the dark as to whether he accepts the point made by Dr. Rynne. If it is untrue it should be denied because the doctor has claimed that 25 per cent of claimants of disability benefit are dossers. I ask the Minister of State to give some response as to whether he accepts that figure as being approximately the case.
(Mayo West): I do not think that it is up to me to comment on the report. If——
It is a very serious matter and the Minister of State is not denying it.
(Mayo West):——what Dr. Rynne says is correct it is a reflection on his own profession. That is the only comment I can make.
Would the Minister of State accept that he or his Minister is the Minister responsible for the administration of public funds in this matter and that if anyone has a responsibility to express a view on the matter it is he?
(Mayo West): I have stated already that as far as the Department are concerned all possible steps are being taken to try to ensure that there is no dossing and that the matters referred to by the Deputies on the other side of the House are being attended to as well as possible under the Department as things stand at the moment.
A final supplementary. I ask the Minister to reflect on what he has told the House and to accept the view that his response to a very serious problem has been less than adequate. I urge him to reconsider the position. I will be writing to the Minister about this. I ask the Minister of State either to deny what Dr. Rynne has claimed to be the case or else do something about it. It is wholly inadequate with the economic problems we have that abuses at this level should be ignored. If abuses at that level are not taking place the Minister should deny it.
(Mayo West): I reiterate that the Department are taking all possible steps to stop abuses.
Would the Minister indicate each or any of these steps?