Before Question Time, I was about to deal with some of the problems mentioned in the Minister's Estimate concerning our Defence Forces. Also, in relation to housing, I quoted a former Minister for Defence in relation to housing at Cathal Brugha Barracks. I am aware that is an erroneous statement and I want to apologise for it. I understand the last administration started a block of flats, but that is only a drop in the ocean in relation to the problem to be solved.
The main problems I wish to deal with in detail are the general poor level of accommodation and, particularly, slum housing. Members of the Defence Forces to whom I have spoken have expressed dissatisfaction with the conditions of employment, unsocial hours and, to a lesser extent, poor pay, even though I accept that pay in itself is not the major factor. The grave shortage of technical personnel, including pilots, engineers, doctors and so on, is also a factor. There is also the lack of a proper welfare service to look after the increasing social problems in the Defence Forces and a shortage of vital equipment, helicopters, radio and electronic equipment. Some require political solutions, others require financial contributions, but they all need the will and determination of the Minister of the day to vigorously tackle those problems.
I would also like to comment on the state of the Defence Forces at present because it is very relevant to this debate. The strength of the Defence Forces now stands at 14,983 as mentioned in the Minister's speech, which is 83 per cent of its establishment strength of 18,020. This is only a marginal improvement since 1977, when we had 14,776. The disturbing aspect of this — and herein lies the serious problem — is that since 1977 we have recruited 10,400 to the Defence Forces. In other words, since that time we have lost almost 10,200 men. This is a frightening figure. They have not left without some reason and it is the duty of the Minister of the day to find out what the reasons are. I contend the reasons which I have mentioned are the main causes of people leaving. Something must be done or the Defence Forces will bleed to death. Their best people are being lost to private industry, although when our Government were in office we had a net increase of 700 men and women to the forces, a 5 per cent increase. The Minister's party have allowed a decline of 1,200 from 1977 to 1981. Increasing sums of money have been provided for pay and that is mentioned again in the Estimate. However, the question of allowances must be examined for the unsocial hours and hazardous duties they have to face. Their allowances are very poor when compared to those of members of the Garda Síochána. I am not in any way saying that the members of the Garda Síochána are too well treated, but there is a connection between them and the Defence Forces. They do a similar type of duty and work in harmony with one another. They are involved in the security of the State and the Army are involved in aiding the civil power which is the Garda Sióchána and, because of that, you can make comparisons between them. This is a complex and difficult area which is perhaps outside the scope of this debate.
I am grateful that the Minister has decided to examine the rule which prevents members of the Defence Forces from discussing their problems and grievances. It may not necessarily be associated with any military obligation and the Minister would do well to examine that rule and perhaps change it. I have been advocating for some time that a commission of inquiry should be set up to inquire into the problems of the Defence Forces. It could be on the lines of the Conroy Commission which was set up to inquire into the problems of the Garda Sióchána. The Minister may say we should have done this while we were in office. I had discussions with Deputy Barrett when he was Minister for Defence on that matter and also with his immediate successor, Deputy Tully. I know it is a complex matter, that there are technical and administrative difficulties and that it would require legislation to do it but the Minister should set up such a commission. He must critically examine the role and duties of the Defence Forces. We have a unique situation here in comparison to other EEC member states in that our Defence Forces are called upon to do work far outside the call of duty, to assist the civil power, and to help the garda and prison officers. They are also used as a cheap form of security when they provide protection for various semi-State bodies and the banking institutions. These duties are the cause of many of the problems and they create a dreadful strain on members of the Defence Forces. The Minister should ensure that the natural agencies for this task should be geared to deal with this problem or that new agencies should be created. If the Minister has the will, determination and necessary support from the Government he can provide a task force to deal with this.
The Defence Forces should not be abused because they have no representation or clout except from their public representatives and I sincerely hope that will not be interfered with. In relation to recruiting, I think the Easter parade should again be established. This should be regarded as a national showpiece for our Defence Forces and, rather than spend thousands on advertising through the media in a recruitment drive, if we can display to the young people something like an Easter parade it would be better than all the advertising and publicity we have had in the past.
I want to deal with the problem of housing. I have visited some of the houses occupied by members of the Defence Forces and I have been shocked at what I found. The Minister will have to do something positive about this and seriously consider changing the old policy in relation to housing. The problem is not being tackled. The Minister will provide some houses and the local authority will also provide them. I maintain that the members of the Defence Forces are falling between two stools because the Minister — any Minister — will say it is a matter for the local authority. I have been a member of a local authority and I have a feeling that some local authorities will say it is a matter for the Department of Defence. It is a problem which must be resolved, and I recommend seriously to the Minister that if he cannot provide from his Department's resources the wherewithal, he should make a special allocation from the Central Fund to local authorities in whose areas there are military barracks. Such funds should be earmarked to provide Army accommodation. Something positive must be done instead of paying lip service in the House and going down to attend passing out parades.
Army housing provision does not at all compare with the provision made for the Garda Siochána. I will refer to figures given in The Irish Press on 17 December 1980. The figures were given in a report of a Dublin Corporation meeting. They expose a disgraceful situation. We speak at home and abroad about the wonderful Army we have but we fail to provide accommodation for them. The report I have referred to deals with an official inspection of three Dublin barracks, Cathal Brugha, Griffith and Arbour Hill. The inspection revealed that 186 of the 201 housing units were substandard. At Griffith Barracks all 24 units were not fit for habitation. Only one out of 88 was habitable at Arbour Hill. If that is not an indictment of successive Ministers and Governments I do not know what is.
I will now give the Minister some other information, and it is not to anybody's credit. I will again compare Garda accommodation with that provided for the Army. Of Garda houses in this State, 10 per cent had been built prior to 1920, but 69 per cent of Army housing units were built prior to 1920. I am trying to point out the seriousness of the situation in regard to Defence Forces accommodation. As I have said, 69 per cent of the housing units in which Defence Force personnel are accommodated were inherited from an alien force. There is a trend in this problem. In the case of Garda Síochána accommodation 29 per cent of the units were built between 1920 and 1960. Thirteen per cent of Army houses were built in that period. From 1960 to 1980, 61 per cent of Garda accommodation was built, but in that period only 18 per cent of Army houses were built. That clearly highlights the serious position in regard to Army housing.
I am not making a political point here. The position has been fairly accurately described on television and in the newspapers. It has been discussed by Dublin Corporation. I am not being disrespectful, but when I read the Minister's speech today I said to myself: "I have heard it all before but I have not seen the necessary action being taken." I sincerely hope the Minister will treat Army accommodation as a top priority. Quite a lot of the amount provided in the Estimate will go on maintenance, trying to maintain a crumbling stock of pre-1920 houses. I ask the Minister to take particular note of that because it is of the utmost importance if we are to keep our Defence Forces as near as possible to established strength.
I note that of the 1980 Estimate £2 million was unexpended. The Minister then should have diverted that towards the provision of Army houses, even if it meant purchasing them on the open market at the end of the year.
The Minister has a housing crisis more serious than Dublin inner city and I quote from the Health Report, "Where is the money to come from?" I suggest that the Minister examine his own Department and look to his Government's capital programme for more money even at the expense of places like Knock Airport etcetera.
There are other serious problems as well, such as a proper welfare service which would look after the needs of the Defence Forces and their dependants. The incidence of marital breakdown in our society also applies in the Defence Forces and the Minister should show his real concern by providing personnel and resources before the problem becomes more acute. He must also tackle the shortages of qualified personnel due to the increasing complex and technical nature of the services. We cannot walk out on the street and just pick the people with technical qualifications and land them into jobs; it takes long-term planning rather than instant recruiting of personnel.
I call on the Minister to set up a special cadet programme to fill the vacancies for doctors and other urgently required professional personnel within the Defence Forces. He should investigate the scholarship scheme to fill these vacancies. I would like to see the Minister showing his social concern to enable children who otherwise could not become doctors, engineers etcetera to do so through the Defence Forces. Let him also increase the number of apprentices. Let the Defence Forces be available to the children of those people who could not afford otherwise, for social or financial reasons, to achieve their goals in society. I am asking the Minister here seriously to investigate this suggestion.
I now move on to the issue of equipment. Subhead 02 of the Estimate is for aircraft. There is almost £6.5 million provided, of which £3.8 million is for maintenance. Perhaps the Minister could explain the high cost of maintenance. Is it because of the age of the equipment? I know that half the Air Corps Alouette fleet are out of action at the moment for maintenance, as are the basic trainers. The Air Corps have to be commended for their dedication in operating in dreadful conditions with totally inadequate equipment. Only one leased helicopter out of 11 helicopters can operate at night or in bad weather, yet the pilots often fly to save lives with this inadequate equipment. Sooner or later, if all-weather helicopters cannot be provided there will be a very serious tragedy. The Minister must now state what he proposes to do about the acquisition of further helicopters. Apparently there is money available according to the former and present Ministers for Justice for all-weather helicopters for the Garda Síochána. The Air Corps desperately need this equipment. In the last two years we have had to call on British helicopters on 24 occasions. This is a disgrace. What if the British are not available or unwilling to provide the service? Following his recent speech the reason should be very apparent to the present Minister.
Another serious matter is maritime reconnaissance. I understand that money is or was available from the EEC. I wonder has the Minister explored that avenue. This was available in relation to fishery protection aircraft. The Minister should explain the reason for the delay and the fact that these aircraft are available in a number of other countries. Our pilots are our greatest asset. I would like to take the opportunity of extending my sympathy and that of my party to the relatives of the late Edmund Barry who was killed in a tragic accident last February on a training flight in Baldonnel. We owe a great debt to all the members of the Air Corps. There are other items that could be needed for training also. In view of the rising cost of equipment, I would like to see proper home produced equipment and not another repeat of the Timoney saga. We need many items and we should investigate home produced designs or licensed productions.
Finally on equipment I turn to subhead P dealing with naval stores. I am delighted to note the increase from £1 million to almost £11 million. This provides much needed employment in the Cork area, particularly in the Verolme Dockyard. To raise employment the Minister should consider replacing the almost 50 years old auxiliary vessels in his Department and those that are leased at the cost of £150,000. This could provide employment for a smaller boatyard. He could also consider replacing the 30 years old mine sweepers, also providing very much needed employment. I would also ask the Minister to refit the Deirdre-class vessels with proper electronics, radar and sonar, in view of recent events, namely, the sinking of the trawler by the British submarine. This suggestion which I made to his predecessor was ignored. I now ask the present Minister to consider those points.
I now turn to the Defence Forces and the problems in regard to housing and unsocial hours. The security service provided by the Defence Forces should be examined by the Minister. The banks should make some contribution. Long and unsocial hours are involved in providing that kind of service with members of the Defence Forces having to leave their homes early in the morning and return late at night.
I would ask the Minister to arrange for housing co-operative schemes whereby the local authorities would provide the land and the services and the Minister would provide a contribution, because this is an immediate problem. I would also like to know what the Minister proposes to do in regard to the overholders because this is increasing by the day. It particularly applies in the Minister's own constituency but it applies in other parts of the country as well. The housing that is there should be made available to the Army personnel in the Curragh and throughout the country. I am grateful for the Minister's assurance that he will reply to any points raised by Deputies and I look forward to some constructive approach to this serious problem. It is easy for a Minister to come into this House and to produce an Estimate like the one produced today and say all the nice things. But while we are recruiting people are leaving. They are trained and still they leave after their initial term of three years. So there is no point in the Minister saying that 50 are going today but we are getting in 49. That is what is happening. There is a fast turnover. It is a waste of personnel within the Army and in the Naval Service and Air Corps.
I would like to pay tribute to the Womens Corps in the Army and I am grateful for the Minister's promise that there will be no discrimination in relation to promotion. I would like to pay tribute also to the Army nursing service and the Red Cross.
In regard to pensions some improvements have been made in the past. But I would ask the Minister to consider this again because some of the pensioners are in very poor circumstances and in need of attention.
