Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 15 Mar 1983

Vol. 341 No. 1

Order of Business .

The Taoiseach

: It is proposed to take business in the following order: Nos. 3 (Resumed) and 4 (Resumed).

By agreement, the arrangement for business and sittings this week will be as follows: (a) there will be no Private Members' Business; (b) the House will adjourn at 3.30 p.m. tomorrow until Tuesday, 22 March 1983; (c) the sitting will not be suspended between 1.30 p.m. and 2.30 p.m. tomorrow; and (d) if there are no speakers offering in the debate on the budget, the proceedings on that motion will be adjourned.

Mr. Haughey

: Arising out of the Order of Business, is the Taoiseach in a position to give us today the wording which he proposes to substitute in the legislation to amend the Constitution?

The Taoiseach

: No, not today, but I hope to be able to do so in the very near future.

Mr. Haughey

: The Taoiseach will appreciate that he informed me on 2 March that the wording would be available within the next fortnight and possibly sooner.

An Ceann Comhairle

: The Deputy cannot have a debate on this subject now.

Mr. Haughey

: The Taoiseach promised me two weeks ago——

An Ceann Comhairle

: A question is in order but a speech is not.

Mr. Haughey

: Thank you very much. Is the Taoiseach aware of the fact that this is the second time he has set himself a deadline which he has failed to keep? The first occasion was his promise during the election campaign to have the legislation passed before 31 March and the second was his undertaking to me on 2 March to have the alternative wording available within a fortnight? These are two limits which he set himself, nobody else set them, and on both occasions he has reneged on his undertakings.

The Taoiseach

: When we said we would hold the referendum by 31 March we were unaware of the procedures which the previous Government had adopted in relation to seeking legal advice, or, more precisely, not getting legal advice on the amendment. We assumed certain procedures had been adopted and it is that which is creating the present dilemma. I regret I am not in a position to give the wording of the amendment today. I had hoped to be able to do so but the Deputy will appreciate that, in view of what happened to the wording on the last occasion, it is of great importance to ensure that we get a wording which will stand up to scrutiny and achieve the objectives which both sides of the House are anxious to achieve. For that purpose it is more important to give adequate time than to try to meet a specific deadline. We will certainly be in a position to produce this wording within the next week or so.

Mr. Haughey

: The Taoiseach has made a statement——

An Ceann Comhairle

: I am not going to allow a debate on this. I have allowed a very lengthy question from the Leader of the Opposition and I have allowed a reply by the Taoiseach.

Mr. Haughey

: On a point of order, the Taoiseach has said something which is untrue.

An Ceann Comhairle

: This sort of thing is neither helpful nor conducive to harmony and leads to chaos on the Order of Business.

Mr. Haughey

: I insist——

An Ceann Comhairle

: The Leader of the Opposition may insist but the Chair is not allowing it. Deputy Blaney, please.

Mr. Haughey

: My point of order is that the Taoiseach has made a statement here which is false.

An Ceann Comhairle

: That is not a point of order. Deputy Haughey will have an opportunity of dealing with this on the debate.

Mr. Haughey

: You permitted the Taoiseach in reply to me to add a statement which was not by way of reply to my question. That statement is false and misleading and I am asking you if I have the right to rebut the false and misleading statement by the Taoiseach in this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

: The Chair allowed Deputy Haughey to elaborate on his question and he allowed the Taoiseach to reply. I am now ruling that the matter is at an end. Deputy Blaney, please.

Mr. Blaney

: I asked that Question No. 2 be raised on the Adjournment and I was very disappointed it was not allowed to be answered because it was withdrawn. May I ask the Taoiseach whether there will be an opportunity given to the House to have a discussion on the matter that has been publicised in the newspapers and which would have formed the content of a reply to Question No. 2? Will there be an opportunity for Members of the House to give their views and suggestions when the Taoiseach and others will have hardened their views or indeed before they do so, as to what form this council, forum or assembly may take?

The Taoiseach

: There is no proposal for such a debate at present. The proposal is for discussions between the leaders of the parties with a view to making arrangements for the establishment of this forum.

Mr. Blaney

: A Cheann Comhairle——

An Ceann Comhairle

: Deputy Enright was on his feet.

Mr. Enright

: I would like to ask the Taoiseach——

Mr. Blaney

: I did not hear the Taoiseach's reply. I have been complaining about the acoustics up here for half the years I have been here. I am not complaining about my colleagues.

The Taoiseach

: I recognise that Deputy Blaney has complained previously about this and I am very sorry. I know that he is not complaining about his colleagues. I recognise that he has acoustic problems. I said that the arrangements are for discussions between the leaders of the parties with a view to securing the establishment of this forum and there is no proposal for a debate on the subject.

Mr. Blaney

: Will there be such a proposal? It would help a great deal for those of us who are really interested in this, as all Members of the House would be, but those like myself who are not being consulted——

An Ceann Comhairle

: A question, Deputy.

Mr. Blaney

: We go to the press with it and perhaps misunderstand what is meant in our efforts to try to get across our point of view which might be relevant.

The Taoiseach

: The procedure adopted has been to discuss the matter between the leaders of the parties and that has led to an announcement. There will be a meeting between the leaders of the parties to make arrangements for a forum. There is no proposal for a debate.

Mr. Enright

: On the Order of Business, would the Taoiseach consider a resumption of the extension of Question Time on Thursday afternoons?

An Ceann Comhairle

: That is not in order on the Order of Business.

Mr. Enright

: I am asking the Taoiseach, in view of the fact——

An Ceann Comhairle

: The Deputy will have to find some other way of raising it. We are now having a free-for-all on Question Time.

Mr. Enright

: There is a move to have these matters brought in under Dáil reform.

An Ceann Comhairle

: The Deputy has other channels open to him.

Mr. Enright

: I would like to be in a position to comment on that.

Dr. Woods

: Does the Taoiseach intend to bring in legislation very soon to provide for a continuation of the ground rents purchase scheme under the Landlord and Tenant (Ground Rents) (No. 2) Act, 1978? The Minister for Justice has circulated information to the effect that this Act will be coming to an end in July. Is it the intention of the Government to bring in legislation to continue the provisions which are there for the purchase of ground rents?

The Taoiseach

: There is no proposal to bring in such legislation at present and that is why we have drawn the attention of the public to the desirability of anybody wishing to take advantage of this scheme doing so before July. It is important to give as much publicity as possible to this so that people will——

An Ceann Comhairle

: It may be, but I would refer the Deputy to his own reference the day the question was put down. Deputy Woods put a question and he got an answer.

Mr. Haughey

: I protest, Sir, about the practice which you are now adopting of permitting the Taoiseach and Government Ministers to make statements which we cannot reply to or query from our side.

An Ceann Comhairle

: That is the reason why this sort of thing should not be raised on the Order of Business.

Mr. Haughey

: Apply it impartially then.

An Ceann Comhairle

: I would gladly rule everything strictly, but then I am told that I am — Deputy Woods, I am sorry, I am not going to allow it.

Dr. Woods

: Does the Taoiseach not consider it desirable to continue this?

An Ceann Comhairle

: I am sorry. Deputy De Rossa.

Mr. De Rossa

: On the Order of Business, I wish to raise on the Adjournment the subject matter of a Private Notice Question which I submitted this morning.

An Ceann Comhairle

: The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.

Mr. De Rossa

: While I am on my feet, could I ask the Taoiseach if any progress is being made in the rents tribunals which were to have been brought in under the Rent Restrictions Act? We were told some weeks ago that that provision would be brought in during the present session.

The Taoiseach

: Yes, work is in progress on that and it will be brought in during the present session. We regard it as a matter of some urgency to introduce this system as against the present system in the District Court.

Mr. Blaney

: I would like to put one little question to the Taoiseach. Since it appears that everybody has been consulted except three Members——

An Ceann Comhairle

: This has been dealt with. The Deputy is very familiar with order and I know he is very anxious that order should be preserved. He cannot go back on something that has been dealt with even today and raise it again. I am sorry.

Mr. Blaney

: It is a totally different question and it would help in this circumstance if I put it to the Taoiseach. I do not even want an answer at the moment. Will he have some consultations with the three who were left out?

The Taoiseach

: If any Deputy wishes to speak to me about any matter of that kind of course I will be happly to see him.

Dr. Woods

: Can the Taoiseach assure the House that he will make arrangements that public servants will not be involved in political matters henceforward?

An Ceann Comhairle

: Deputy Woods is being consistently disorderly in this House.

(Interruptions.)