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Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 4 May 1983

Vol. 342 No. 2

Companies (Amendment) Bill, 1982 (Seanad): Second Stage.

I move: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time".

Deputies may recall that at the end of May last year the House passed the Companies (Amendment) Act 1982 which was a short measure to improve the facilities and information available to the business community at the Companies Registration Office, to make some necessary revisions and to up-date the fines and some other figures in the Companies Act 1963. That was the first measure in a planned programme of legislation to reform company law which I intend to continue and which will consist of a series of amending Bills. The Bill before the House today is the second measure in that series and it is designed to amend and extend the Companies Acts 1963 to 1982 to give effect to the EEC Second Directive on company law and certain related matters. That directive is concerned with the formation of public limited companies and the maintenance and alteration of their capital.

The Companies Act 1963 is the basic statute governing the operations of different classes of companies in Ireland and prior to the short 1982 Act it was only amended twice in its 20 years' existence. The first change was by way of regulations in 1973 which gave effect to the First EEC Directive on company law which was concerned with the publication of documents and certain other information about various classes of companies. Subsequently, the Companies (Amendment) Act 1977 dealt with the transfer of title to securities on the Stock Exchange.

I would like to impress upon the House that the Bill before it today is an urgent matter. Some Deputies will probably be aware that the EEC Commission brought Ireland before the European Court of Justice for failure to implement the Second Directive by the appointed date, December 1978. On this point it is very relevant to mention that five other member states were brought before the court on the same charge. The court in a judgment last October ordered that, as we had failed to fulfil our obligations under the Treaty of Rome, Ireland should pay the costs. Incidentally similar judgments were handed down in respect of three of the other member states, the remaining two having recently introduced appropriate legislation. It is worth pointing out even at this stage that the necessity for the proceedings demonstrated that the requirements of the directive turned out to be rather more complicated than was at first realised and called for complex adjustments of legislation. Deputies will recognise that some of the member states involved have administrations and resources much greater than ours and yet the Bill which we have to produce as a consequence of the Directive is not any less complex than theirs. It was really no surprise, therefore, that we took as long as those larger administrations to bring about the necessary changes in our legislation.

It is relevant, in relation to the court proceedings, to tell Deputies a little about the EEC approach on company law matters. The fact is that the Commission has made company law an area where there has been a very large number of EEC initiatives. Eight directives, including that which dictates the Bill before the House today, have already been adopted and must be translated into Irish law. There are various other proposals at different stages in the EEC negotiating process. These put a considerable strain on the limited resources of my Department which must analyse and discuss them, and service a variety of meetings in Brussels in connection with them. In general, the EEC approach is one which seeks harmonisation in relation to different aspects of company law and sets out principles about those aspects to be included in an appropriate form in its laws by each member state. To put it another way, the complexity of the subject of company law accounts for the very big number of EEC initiatives.

Outstanding among the directives already adopted as far as Members of this House will be concerned is the Fourth Directive which deals with the content, format, presentation and publication of the accounts of both public and private limited companies. I can inform Deputies that work is proceeding on the implementing Bill and I intend to have it before the House later in the current year.

Of more immediate interest to Deputies, I imagine, is another stage of the programme on companies legislation, which I have already mentioned. This is another new measure designed to prevent or eliminate abuses and evasion of responsibilities in the operation of limited liability companies. I can assure the House that, in accordance with the commitment in the Programme for Government, work is drawing to a close on the drafting of a Bill which will strengthen some of the existing provisions of the Companies Act 1963 and introduce new measures the objective of which is to eliminate, deter or penalise the abuses and malpractices which are occuring all too frequently in the direction and management of companies.

I think that it is as well for me to explain my intention with that measure in clear and simple terms. I am going to spare no effort to try to put an end to the activities of fly-by-night operators in various sectors who make a mockery of the privilege of limited liability. These are the people who deliberately close down one company leaving substantial debts to creditors and employees and form another company to repeat the same process again, perhaps more than once. It is not relevant to the Bill before us today to go any further than to say that in the proposed measure to combat abuse I will be seeking among other weapons to increase dramatically the penalties in company law as a whole and to pitch them at the highest level that can be imposed by law.

Before turning to the detailed contents of the Bill now before the House I would like to ask Deputies to bear in mind one fundamental factor when they are examining it. The principles of the Second EEC Directive have been discussed at length, have come through the administrative process of the EEC and have been adopted some years ago. Consequently they are not negotiable at this stage. Therefore most of the provisions in the Bill are not negotiable either.

The objective of the directive and, consequently, of this Bill is the protection of the interests of both shareholders and creditors in relation to the formation of public limited liability companies and the maintenance, increase or reduction of their capital. While there is only slight reference to employess in the directive and in the Bill it is quite clear to me that the proper conduct of such companies in relation to their capital cannot but redound to the benefit of employees. If public limited companies thrive and prosper then the position and interests of the employees are obviously secured. The Bill is divided into six parts and most of the provisions of the directive are given force in Parts II, III and IV. The remaining parts deal with ancillary matters and companies changing between limited and unlimited status.

The directive calls for the creation of a new entity called a "public limited company" and attaches special requirements to it. The new type of company is separately defined in section 2 of the Bill. The Joint Oireachtas Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities, in a report in 1978, recommended that the definition of a private company as in the 1963 Act should be maintained. That recommendation has been accepted so that the definition in section 33 of the Companies Act 1963 will continue to hold for private companies. In summary, this is that a private company must:— have a share capital; restrict the right to transfer its shares; limit the number of members; and prohibit any invitation to the public to subscribe for shares. It is important to leave that definition stand because the private company so defined has long been the dominant vehicle for business activity in this country.

The significance of private companies in the economy is best illustrated by the fact that in December 1982 there were about 69,000 private companies and 340 public companies registered at the Companies Registration Office. The measures in the directive apply only to public companies limited by shares and public companies limited by guarantee and having a share capital and as there are only two or three of the latter type I am discontinuing any further registrations of them. The effect therefore is that with certain exceptions, to which I shall refer in relation to Parts III and IV, the Bill will have greatest impact on the 340 existing public companies which, as I shall explain, must change from their existing status. It will also apply, of course, to any new public limited companies.

Part II of the Bill implements the requirements of the directive as to the name and registration procedures for new public limited companies. These are that:— the name of a public limited company should distinguish it from other types of company; the memorandum of such a company must state that it is a public limited company; and the allotted share capital of a public limited company must not be less than a specified minimum and must be paid up as to, at least, 25 per cent of the nominal value of the shares and all of any premium on them.

To meet those requirements I am providing for the designation "public limited company" or its abbreviation "p. l. c." or the Irish equivalent of these so that an incidental outcome as far as public companies are concerned is that the old identification of "and company limited" will be replaced by "public limited company". However, private limited companies will continue to use the well recognised "and Co. Ltd.". I am providing, in section 19, for an authorised minimum share capital of £30,000 for public limited companies. This figure takes account of all relevant considerations — and I shall touch on these later — and is, incidentally, almost double the £16,000 required by the directive.

Part II also sets out the re-registration requirements for any company wishing to change from its existing status to that of a public limited company. Predictably, the key requirements imposed by the directive for changes are that such companies must meet the criteria as to name, authorised minimum capital and the payment up of the shares. The main focus in this area is on the 340 existing public companies limited by shares, or limited by guarantee and having a share capital, which are defined as "old public limited companies". These companies, if they wish to retain their present status, must re-register as public limited companies within fifteen months of the appointed day and to the extent that they do not have the £30,000 authorised minimum capital they will have three years within which to bring their capital up to that level. Alternatively, they may be re-registered as some other form of company.

Part II also provides that private companies, as they may under existing legislation, may become public companies but if they wish to re-register as public limited companies in the new form they will have to comply with the requirements as to name, capital and payment up of shares. There is also provision in this part for a public limited company to change its status in the opposite direction, so to speak, and to re-register as a private company. If it does so it will, of course, have to meet the requirements of the definition of a private company to which I have already referred.

Part III of the Bill implements the provisions of the directive in relation to the share capital of public limited companies. Requirements are set out as to the issue of and payment for share capital, the maintenance of share capital, the rights of existing shareholders on the occasion of the issue of further shares in the company and the variation and registration of class rights attaching to shares. Part IV deals with distribution of profits. I have already mentioned that the second directive applies only to public limited companies. However, many ideas of the directive in relation to the share capital and profits of a public limited company simply reinforce existing practice or have for some time been recognised as desirable for the proper conduct of companies generally.

Therefore, and though there is no obligation to do so, I consider it appropriate, in the interests of the development of company law generally, to apply some of the provisions of Parts III and IV to private companies. In doing this I am adopting the recommendations of various interested professional bodies who have made representations on the matter. In my approach I have been careful to strike a balance between, on the one hand, the desirability of developing proper commercial practice which would result in some benefits for members, employees, creditors and the business public generally and, on the other, the need to avoid imposing unnecessary and fruitless burdens on private companies which have a very significant role on the Irish business scene and provide considerable employment.

I would like to refer again to the idea of an authorised minimum share capital for public limited companies which is dealt with in Part III of the Bill. This figure is somewhat above the minimum requirements of the directive but, since the underlying principle is that small enterprises ought not seek to become public companies and that such companies should not be allowed to commence business without some semblance of financial viability, it would not be appropriate to fix a lower figure. On the other hand when settling this figure it is necessary to consider the effect on existing public companies as well as on any new public limited companies which might be formed in the future.

About 30 per cent of existing public companies have an authorised capital below £30,000 so that if they are to re-register as public limited companies in accordance with section 12 they must increase the capital and the amount of it that is paid up to comply with that section. The procurement of this amount may prove to be a difficulty for some of those companies whose capital is small and this is why I have taken advantage of an option offered by the directive whereby old public limited companies may be given three years in which to attain the authorised minimum capital set. Alternatively, they may re-register as another form of company. I would ask the Deputies to note that section 19 enables the Minister to increase the authorised minimum capital by order.

There is also a provision, new to Irish law, that directors of a company may not allot shares unless they are authorised to do so by the articles of association or by the company in general meetings. Such an authority must state the maximum amount of shares involved and the duration of the authority given, which may be for a period of up to five years but can be revoked, varied or renewed. This kind of control on the directors' issuing the shares has been mooted for some time. It should be to the advantage of shareholders in private as well as in public limited companies in so far as it should prevent directors making an offer to issue shares to some members of the company or even outsiders on terms below market value which offer, if taken up, would result in the value of the holdings of the remaining members being reduced.

The application of pre-emption rights, which are the rights of first refusal when the capital of a company is being increased by a new issue of shares for cash, is not a new idea in this country as it is a requirement for those public companies which are quoted on the Stock Exchange. It is an innovation, however, to have them provided for in companies legislation and the relevant provisions in this Bill apply to both private and public limited companies. Those provisions set down the principle that such shares must first be offered to existing shareholders in proportion to the nominal value of shares already held by them. These provisions will have the effect of safeguarding the interests of all the existing shareholders against any allotments which might change control of the company or damage their relative position in the company as represented by their holdings.

Provisions, imposed by the directive and included in Part III, that shares may not be issued at a discount and must be paid for in money or money's worth represent what is, in practice, the existing position and, therefore, they are being applied to all companies. The directive makes it necessary, however, to impose a partial restriction on the existing position in that it specifies that an undertaking to perform work or supply services may not form part of the assets paid for the share of public limited companies. One of the innovations of the directive and, consequently, the Bill, is that, as I have already mentioned, the shares of a public limited company must be paid up as to at least 25 per cent of their nominal value and the whole of any premium on them before they are allotted. For comparison Deputies will be interested to know that the Companies Act, 1963, requires that only 5 per cent is payable on application. So as to encourage the participation of employees in the capital of public limited companies I am taking advantage of the option offered by the directive whereby the payment on allotment of at least 25 per cent of the nominal value of shares need not apply to shares issued in connection with employee share schemes. The idea of employee share schemes is not, of course, new to our company law code. Section 60 of the Companies Act, 1963, recognises the special place of such schemes by providing that financial assistance may be given by a company for the acquisition of shares in the company or its holding company to be held by its employees or the employees of a subsidiary company. I understand that a number of Irish companies already operate share purchase or share option schemes for employees.

Where shares are not paid for by cash, the directive introduces another new idea in that it requires the valuation, by an independent expert, of whatever considerations other than cash are paid for shares in a public limited company. A further requirement is that such payment of non-cash assets for shares must be made in full within five years of the allotment. An expert's valuation is also required where a public limited company proposes to acquire non-cash assets from a subscriber to its memorandum within two years of incorporation and the value of those assets exceeds 10 per cent of the subscribed capital.

Deputies will appreciate that these provisions of the directive, which are reflected at sections 29 to 33 of the Bill, represent a serious attempt to get an objective assessment of the proper value of non-cash assets transferred to a public limited company. This attempt is, of course, in line with the objective of the directive to preserve the capital of the company and to provide protection for all those involved with it.

Part III also includes provisions preventing companies from acquiring their own shares either directly or through nominees. At present there are provisions in section 60 of the 1963 Act which enable a company to provide financial assistance in certain special circumstances for the purchase of its own shares and while the directive requires the amendment of those provisions so that they will no longer apply to public limited companies, that section will remain in force for private companies.

I would like to draw the special attention of the House to the provision at section 40 of the Bill which requires that where it becomes known to any director of a company that there is a serious loss of the subscribed capital he must arrange for an extraordinary general meeting of the shareholders to be held to consider what measures should be taken to deal with the situation. I need hardly remind Deputies that in the present difficult economic situation there is an increasing number of company failures and it is now widely accepted by persons such as liquidators, receivers and financial bodies closely involved in such matters that almost all of these failures have a common factor, which is that company directors and managers do not take appropriate action when financial difficulties begin to appear on the horizon. I believe Deputies will agree that this provision should be applied to all companies if only to encourage those concerned to consider all possible courses of action which might remedy the situation with a view to avoiding the failure of the company and all the attendant adverse consequences, partic ularly the loss of employment. I intend to watch closely the effects of this provision as an early warning system and I am encouraging directors and shareholders to do likewise by the amendment, made in the Seanad, of the Seventh Schedule to the 1963 Act which requires a comment by the auditors on the company's balance sheet position in relation to section 40.

Part IV of the Bill implements the requirements of the directive about distributions to shareholders, including in particular the payment of dividends. Section 45 states the basic principle that distributions may only be made from profits available for that purpose and that, in fact, represents the present position. It is in the definition of "available profits", meaning a company's accumulated realised profits less its accumulated realised losses, that a change in relation to the present position is brought about. The requirement that a company may not make a distribution until accumulated losses have been made good clarifies a situation that has been in some doubt.

The principles involved represent prudent accounting practice and I am accepting the recommendations of the accountancy bodies that they should be applied to all companies. The directive imposes a further restriction on public limited companies in that they may only pay dividends where the amount of the net assets is not less than the aggregate of the called-up share capital and undistributable reserves and where the payment of the proposed distribution would not have the effect of reducing the net assets below that level. The remainder of Part IV recognises the special position of assurance companies and investment companies in relation to those basic principles and specifies the accounts, and regulations concerning them, to which reference must be made by all companies before any distribution is contemplated.

I have already mentioned in relation to Part II that this Bill deals with the re-registration of companies and it is for that reason that I think it is appropriate to include provisions for companies changing between limited and unlimited status. The Companies Act, 1963, already authorises an unlimited company to re-register as a limited company and I am merely improving that provision for the better protection of the interests of its creditors where an unlimited company re-registers as limited and, subsequently, goes into liquidation. There is no provision in the 1963 Act to enable a limited company to re-register as unlimited. I am making this facility available now in section 52.

I have already mentioned, in relation to Part II, that existing public limited companies must within a given period re-register as the new public limited company or, as an alternative, be re-registered as another form of company. This provision provides such an alternative. Moreover, various representations requesting this facility have been made to me. While I am providing the facility I am satisfied that a change in status from limited to unlimited is not one that will be lightly taken because such a change will require the assent of all the members of the company and will have serious consequences for all involved in that the assumption of unlimited liability means that the members will be responsible for the debts of the company to the full extent of their personal assets.

On the one hand it is only right for me to signal to Deputies today that I will be introducing a number of amendments on Committee Stage and, on the other, to assure them that these are marginal and reflect reconsideration by the draftsman on one or two issues.

Finally, Part VI of the Bill covers matters such as the publication requirements imposed by the directive, the use of misleading names, penalties and procedures for indictable offences, expenses and order-making arrangements.

I have already referred to the fact that the complexities of the directive have called for a Bill which, Deputies will agree, is fairly complicated. It has been formulated with care as to its consequences for existing companies and with regard to the views of various interested professional groups. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the groups concerned for their views and recommendations.

In conclusion, I need hardly remind this House that the enactment of this Bill is now a matter of urgency because of the judgment of the European Court. I am sure that I can rely on Deputies to get it enacted with maximum speed. Being generally dictated by the directive, the Bill itself is largely technical and, consequently, uncontroversial. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to ask Deputies to refrain from pressing for amendments in relation to other general matters not connected with the second directive. I am making this request on the clear understanding that I have given Deputies a guarantee that I will be introducing further stringent and comprehensive measures for the reform and up-dating of company law as soon as possible. In those circumstances I look forward to the co-operation of Deputies in dealing with this Bill quickly and recommend it for the approval of this House.

Ba mhaith liom ar dtús a chur in iúl duit go gcuirim fáilte roimh an mBille seo agus is fáda atáimíd ag fanacht leis. Tá géarghá ann leanúint ar aghaidh le reachtaíocht chun leasú a dhéanamh ar chomhlachtaí sa tír seo.

In the recent past, more so than for many years previously, we have heard a considerable amount of talk about company law. It appears to have taken on a new importance in Irish business life, and particularly Irish political life. It is incumbent on politicians to react immediately to dealing with practices which leave a lot to be desired. For that reason I am pleased to accommodate the Minister by giving this Bill passage through this House in the hope that he will deal with other domestic matters as expeditiously as possible.

There is considerable public disquiet about measures being taken by individuals and professionals in the area of company law as far as tax evasion is concerned and it is necessary to set at rest the minds of the public. We must eliminate malpractice in all matters concerning the good and efficient running of commercial life. The central issue attracting most comment in the media appears to be the disclosure of information and the amount of information available to individuals and companies and the general public as to the formation and other matters relating to commercial enterprises. Many of these measures will be necessary in the immediate future.

I stand back from references in the media to imprisonment. Reference to the fact that some people might be incarcerated for various offences has a very damaging effect on business in general and on the business community. From experience I have gleaned in the recent past, it has considerable effects on boards of management of companies who have been playing their part in Irish commercial life over a long period, and who have been in no way infringing the rights and privileges granted to them by company law as framed in the 1963 Act and subsequent amending Acts which, as we all know, are based firmly on the 1948 British statute.

While some people who made comments recently may have felt they were being helpful, those comments have a dangerous element attached to them. We run the risk of creating an open season for labelling successful businessmen as crooks, or half crooks, or parasites in society, or manipulators of the system. Those are the kind of words which have been used. They do not apply to the broad general sweep of business activity, and are inclined to create the impression that all businesses are being run in a cloak and dagger fashion, and that the likelihood of coming across a decent well-run business is remote. That is very far from the truth.

I have respect for professionals. They operate company law as they find it. If they find a loophole in it through which they can enhance their profit or improve their business arrangements, it is very difficult for us to find fault with them. The fault lies with us. If the professionals can take advantage of a section or sections of company law, it is up to us, if they are acting against the common good, to introduce measures here. I was heartened to hear the Minister saying he has other things in mind of an immediate nature.

We must always be careful not to sow the seeds of distrust between management and the factory floor. Bad publicity somehow gives the impression to the work force that there is a different type of operation going on upstairs when, in actual fact, they are all part of the work force and should co-operate in the best interests of their business. Some of the comments made recently were absolutely necessary and long overdue, but some of the language may have been a little intemperate.

Over the past number of years we spent a considerable amount of time in setting up agencies to promote enterprises, seek investment, encourage entrepreneurs and the utilisation of risk capital. We provided the necessary framework to have the capital made available to them.

We must not encourage people to go into business, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, suggest that there is some kind of bonanza to be achieved by manipulating the system or company law. That is very far from the truth. Comments in the media recently should not be taken as gospel. Some of them seem to suggest that anybody who does well in business life is suspect. That would be very dangerous, and it must be resisted. It is incumbent on us to put the matter correctly. Nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of companies are doing what they regard as being in the best interests of shareholders, owners and the work force. If they are not, they should not be in business. Companies with that attitude will be happy with any measures which are introduced, so long as they are fair and equitable. That is important in all matters concerning businesses.

It is important to say that we are fully in support of business. We are fully in support of setting up companies under the regulations we lay down. We encourage that. Those who break ranks and manipulate the system we do not support. I am talking about manipulating the system quite apart from the professional who finds a regulation which he can utilise to his own best advantage. He is entitled to do that and there is nothing wrong with that. It is up to us to make the whole system so water-tight that abuses are ruled out.

The vast majority of businessmen and directors pay their taxes. Many of them pay their taxes under the PAYE system. The general public sometimes feel that owners and directors of companies are paid in a different way, and that all the money coming in is divided in the board room. It does not happen like that. Most of these people are paid salaries the same as the rest of us, and they pay their PAYE. I would like to think they all pay their just taxes, capital taxation, corporation tax, and so on. It would be bad if the notion were to go abroad that a whole range of companies had slush funds stashed away in peculiar places, whether in accounts in far distant places or in financial institutions. By and large that is a myth.

Look at some of the political contributions and you wonder is it.

I understand that many of the political contributions appear in the balance sheets of the private companies. We cannot always see the finer points of that kind of thing. If a company wish to make a contribution to a political party or parties — and many of them take the latter road rather than the former — I do not see anything wrong with that. I would not like the idea to go abroad that companies and businesses should not support the institutions as we see them here, and that means the political parties. The political parties frame the legislation to allow them to stay in business. I do not see anything basically wrong with that. Anyway it is beside the point.

The oft-celebrated notion that slush funds of enormous magnitude are available is a myth. Think of the hundreds of companies who have gone to the wall in the recent past. If we are to believe the kind of statistics which are promulgated by some of the agencies promoting business, they are telling us that so many more hundreds are just there and, if there is a shift in the rate of exchange, or in the unit cost of production, if there is the slightest draught, they are out of business. That is what has happened. Hundreds of firms go to the wall suddenly if there is a shift in international markets or trends. It must be the last straw for any manager to see his company close down, if he has any care for his own name and that of his company, not to talk about the work force who are depending on him for a job in a situation where there may be no alternative work available. A manager must suffer a considerable trauma when he realises his company is going out of business. If money were available in these so-called slush funds, I am sure they would percolate out of such funds in support of the company concerned.

I am sure that the number of companies who have substantial reserves is very small, and this applies to the public and private sectors. We have gone some way towards bringing that about by eroding much of the reserves. I would regard reserves as essential if a company is to stay in business and is to avail of modern technology and equipment. We must be very careful in the kind of capital taxation we promote because, in trying to generate revenue in the short-term, we might be nailing closure orders on companies who may not be able to compete or reequip to stay in business. I presume that matter can be dealt with on the Finance Bill but it has a relevance to company life in general and that is why a comment should be made on it here.

In much of the adverse publicity there seems to be some campaign of envy and jealousy and this is dividing the community. It is an element I do not like. We must do everything we can to avoid setting the self-employed against PAYE workers, setting farmers against industrialists and both of them against the other work force. These divisions are manifesting themselves in various ways. We should not be seen to support any section moving against another section because they consider they are being hard done by. If I thought that marching on the streets in any town in the country would bring about a situation where I would pay less tax I would be foolish not to do it. However, that is not the reality. If people were marching for the purpose of tax equity only——

On a point of order, what has this got to do with the Bill before the House?

It has a great relevance to it in that it concerns the 65,000 companies referred to in the Minister's speech who are registered with the Companies Office and who are responsible for many of the work force. My comments might go a long way towards relieving some of the suspicion that has been aroused. Recently success in this country has been viewed with suspicion but that does not happen in other democracies. Other countries welcome and honour the successful businessman. We must not allow a situation to develop here where we isolate him, put him into another class and proceed to investigate him as though he were some kind of criminal. We should encourage the businessman. Our purpose is to promote legislation whereby he can do business and generate money. When this happens more people are put to work, they pay their taxes and thus the social welfare system is maintained. If we have a situation where that does not happen, there will be no need for a companies registration office. The same kind of attitude is creeping in as far as politicians are concerned and Deputy Prendergast is aware of that.

Is the Deputy familiar with the Telesis report?

I ask the Deputy not to stray from discussing the Bill before the House.

I am very concerned about the suggestion that politicians are parasites in some way and that there are too many politicians. I often wonder why that attitude is being promoted. I hope it is not being promoted to destabilise our democratic institutions or to demoralise politicians in their work not only on behalf of their constituents but also their country. If we go down that road——

That is not within the general principles of the Bill.

Just as company directors, managers and the owners of businesses are entitled to defend themselves, as a politician I also claim the right to defend myself when there is an effort being made to bring us into disrepute.

The main objective of company law nowadays, which was referred to by the Minister, seems to apply to the concept of limited liability. This has relevance to the 1963 Act and subsequent amendments. I presume that limited liability concerns the conditions for granting registration and the restrictions that may be put on access to registration. I should like to think we would be more favourably disposed to the former rather than to the latter.

The responsibility of directors is an important aspect in the whole area of limited liability, to their employees and to their shareholders. We are concerned with the liability of directors with regard to outstanding debts, the share capital limits we would place on the companies and the restrictions that might be put on directors setting up companies when involved in liquidations or receiverships while owing tax arrears or PAYE deductions. That last item has attracted the greatest amount of attention and it is something we must deal with not just in the interests of the Revenue Commissioners but of business itself. This is essential if the good name and standing of the vast majority of businessmen is to be maintained and until it is proved otherwise to me I will continue to believe in their good name.

All companies should be obliged to prepare full accounts and to have an audit of such accounts. There has been a certain amount of laxity in this area during the years. Many companies do not comply with what might be expected to be a basic requirement of having the accounts made up to date and the audit prepared on time.

I wonder sometimes is it because there is reluctance on the part of management to have these things made known generally in that they might be interpreted incorrectly or not read properly, perhaps particularly by some of their own workers. If there were better relationships between management and the work force, company officials would be in a position to explain in clear detail precisely what the published figures mean. The reading of many of these documents, such as audited accounts, can sometimes be misleading if there is not a full knowledge of the background to some of the insertions in the accounts. Such better understanding would relieve much of the tension between the work force and management — and they are all workers of the same company. Sometimes the figures even at a casual glance could, given certain interpretations, lead to false hopes or expectations of moneys that would appear to be there in substantial sums but might not, in effect, in the proper reading of the thing, be there at all.

There should be very strict control of unlimited companies converting to limited status, because it is a method which could and can be used for avoiding the payment of outstanding debts. That must be carefully watched. Full accountability is generally expected now in all walks of life, as an aspect of present day life. In bringing about a happy situation there I would advise the Minister — and he probably would agree — to have as little interference with good established practice as possible. Any changes might be brought about in procedure as long as the desired result is being achieved, but we need not throw out everything in the hope of getting something better. That is not the way to achieve the best results.

As far as I know — and I stand to be corrected on this — there has never been a case of fraudulent trading proven in this country. That leads to disquiet, as it is well known, or suggested to be so, that fraudulent trading is and has been going on. Cases may have been taken to the courts, but to my knowledge none has been proven — they would be very difficult to prove under the 1963 Act, anyway. However, an inspection of the liquidators' reports, particularly those of recent times, will show that they constantly refer to actions of directors continuing to trade at a time when they knew that the companies were and could only continue to be insolvent. The general public, seeing that liquidators are making these reports on a continuing basis — and with the closure of so many companies in the last couple of years it begins to mushroom — are entitled to ask why cases have not been taken against these people for fraudulent trading. If they have, they certainly have not been highlighted or brought to a successful conclusion in the courts. This is obviously because of something unsatisfactory in the 1963 Act and that is what the Minister must move to improve.

The companies which hide behind the veil of incorporation should be made to produce annually audited accounts for public inspection. Many companies going into liquidation have not had proper audits carried out for quite a few years. It is essential that creditors be protected by having easy and timely access to reliable financial data from customers. These things are referred to on a continuing basis. The Minister is quite right in his statement on Second Stage that it would be negligent of him in the light of the reports — and it is within the compass of his competence under the provisions of the Act — not to do whatever is necessary to bring about a situation where that cannot apply.

I would be much happier — and I know that it is not the Minister's fault because he has given a commitment on it — if the question of dealing with the domestic problems had arisen before this one. However, this is an essential piece of legislation as well in the whole formula of dealing with the eight directives.

Limited liability status should be granted only to reasonably substantialsized companies. We are all aware of the £2 company. Each company should have a minimum share capital, which should be disclosed. Perhaps it should be disclosed on their headed notepaper, together with the names of their directors — maybe not. That practice, as I understand, applies in some other jurisdictions and would be worth considering in the formulation of the new legislation which the Minister is considering at this time. Legislation in the United Kingdom and certainly in some of the continental countries provides for considerably more information being made available by limited liability companies. This provides better protection for the unsecured creditors. Legislation has moved ahead of us and we have been a little slow in dealing with the question of unsecured creditors. Reform is necessary in this area. We have been talking about such reform for quite some time now and perhaps the time has come for us to move to implement it on a continuing basis. If the amount of activity at EEC level is anything to go by, quite a sizeable proportion of their time has been given to the whole area of company law reform.

While we are not the only ones tardy in implementing the directives or complying with what is regarded by all as necessary reform, at the same time the Minister will be making it his memorial in the Department in that he will have moved forward several of these directives with a view to getting them on our Statute Book. The Minister implied that this legislation is of a complex and technical nature and is a large piece of legislation. It is aimed at translating into Irish law the provisions of the EEC Second Directive on Company Law. That concerns the formation of public limited liability companies and the maintenance and alteration of their capital.

In June 1981 the Commission of the European Communities complained bitterly at the failure of the Irish Government to implement this directive. They notified their intention at that time of bringing us before the European Court. While it is no justification or excuse to say that there were five others, irrespective of the administrative size of their bureaucracies, and that we just happened to be one of them, we were brought there under Article 169 of the Treaty of Rome. The deadline for the implementation of national legislation to implement this directive, as I understand, was December 1978.

It does not make the best of reading that we had to be dragged to the European Court, found guilty and that subsequently we had to bear the costs. We are all very conscious of costs in this Chamber. Costs seem to be the major concern of everybody nowadays. Taking a case to the European Court and defending it is a very costly business. We should do everything in our power not to incur such costs as we have been incurring as far as this directive is concerned and, indeed, under threat of a whole range of other directives as well of which we are in breach and on which we have been given notice to move, or else.

The aim of this second directive is to ensure minimum equivalent protection for both the shareholders and the creditors in relation to capital of public limited companies and that the law will provide for the change-over from limited to unlimited status of all companies. Considerable activity in the EEC has been concerned with developments in company law, in regard to the harmonisation of all areas of company law. It must be stated that we are being particularly tardy in implementing many of the directives. While I readily understand that one of the reasons — even from my very limited stay in the Department — is that the Department of Trade are under considerable pressure, we must admit that they have a very large range of responsibilities in very complex areas. At the same time the Minister will have to seek whatever staff are required to get our company law, once and for all, into proper working order. Certainly he will find me most accommodating if it is found necessary to do anything of a particular or unusual nature in order to bring up the staff complement to deal with that matter. We do not want it to be believed that, because of recent pressures brought about through the recession or because of the failure of so many companies, we are now moving. Be that as it may, a new initiative is necessary to give effect to the many directives. While this Bill constitutes only a step in the right direction it is a necessary improvement in company law in Ireland.

The second directive of the EEC which this Bill seeks to implement is concerned with securing uniform protection for investors and creditors of public limited liability companies in so far as the formation of these companies and the maintenance and alteration of their capital is concerned. In Ireland, as I understand it, it applies to public companies limited by shares, and public companies limited by guarantee and having a share capital. It is interesting to note that the Minister says he is terminating the continuation of public companies limited by guarantee and public companies limited by shares which are to superseded by a new form of company which will be known as the public limited company, the PLC. I understand that description will have to appear in the name of the company. I think it is incorporated in the provisions of the Bill.

A lot of the provisions now being promoted by the Minister have grown up through good practice and experience. Some of these provisions only go to reinforce the practices that have grown up. Anything that will improve the overall conduct of companies is to be welcomed. I welcome the provisions of this Bill as a step in that direction. It would be desirable that many of its good provisions — even though they are concerned here with public limited companies — would be applied with good effect to the better running of all companies, whether they be public or private. I would ask the Minister to apply the provisions that have grown up, really through good practice and experience, and which can be incorporated into company law to good effect wherever necessary to both the public and private sectors.

In his introductory remarks the Minister mentioned that he was working on new legislation and regulations primarily concerned with private limited companies. This will be much welcomed. It will be expected, because of public disquiet over some practices in recent days in this regard, that early attention will be given to that matter. I am sure that every facility will be afforded by this side of the House in the introduction of a suitable package. If this could be done at all before the recess it would be well received and would enhance the reputation not merely of the Department but would demonstrate also that we are concerned about that public disquiet. While I believe that disquiet may have been voiced to a greater degree than justified, at the same time some malpractices have been perpetrated in certain sections of commercial life here and the Minister has an obligation to move against them.

The main provisions of the second directive which form the basis for this Bill are, firstly, a distinctive designation; secondly, minimum subscribed capital; and, thirdly, subscribed capital paid up to at least 25 per cent. One feature regarded as proper for universal application is the provision concerned with the issue and payment for share capital and the restrictions on distribution of profits.

This Bill will form part of the whole package of the restructuring of company law here. As the Minister says the principles of the second directive are not negotiable. We must take note of that because the Bill implementing those provisions would not be negotiable either. It may be necessary on Committee Stage to suggest to the Minister a few areas he might consider. I understand that he will be moving some technical amendments by way of draftsman's input. That will give us an opportunity of incorporating perhaps a few other ideas as well. Traditionally amendments put forward by the Opposition are not tolerated. I suppose there is a good political reason for that, but in an area such as this, if it can be sufficiently proven to the Minister that any amendment would strengthen his hand in dealing comphrensively with matters concerned with company law, I am sure he will be approachable in the matter.

We are all aware that the Companies Acts of 1963 to 1972 and 1982 form the basic structures covering the operation of the different classes of companies in Ireland. These structures must be upgraded to provide the necessary security and protection for the various interests involved. A considerable amount of our economic activity is conducted through the basic structures governing companies. We must concede also that over the past 20 years the 1963 Companies Act has served this country well. It has formed a sound basis for the development of many commercial enterprises here. If the company boat has been found to be leaking somewhat recently, it must be said that it has served us well. When one considers the rapid growth of industrialisation that has taken place, the extent and complexity of business today, then it will be seen that it is desirable now to have an overhaul of the whole of company law. This Bill constitutes a step in the whole process of that restructuring.

The first directive that we brought into law here some time ago improved the publication of documents and information on companies generally. That was supported by a short Act in 1977 which dealt with the method of transferring securities on the Stock Exchange. While this directive and the implementation of others is of an urgent nature, there will be need also for the introduction of special measures to deal with domestic considerations. They are the ones about which I am concerned primarily, in particular the overall pattern of private limited companies and their operation in the present economic climate. The first directive and the supporting Companies (Amendment) Act, 1981, had many worthwhile provisions. They could be summarised in three ways: first, the efficient operation of the Companies Registration Office. I mention this for a particular reason, even though it is legislation still there and being implemented by the Department and the Companies Registration Office. The second aspect has to do with people who may act as company auditors and public auditors. The third area is the provision of preferential payments in winding up companies. The whole thrust of that Act was to make the 1963 Act more relevant and to provide for better observance of the law on requirements such as filing of documents, returns and statements, meetings and other information, with the Registrar of Companies. It is a matter of some anxiety that provisions put on the Statute Book and not subsequently followed up can lead to considerable abuse. It would be interesting to know if the provisions of the first directive have been implemented in full. I regard as essential a number of minor adjustments that were effected in order to facilitate the efficient operation of the Companies Registration Office. The good and efficient running of this particular office is essential to the overall control of company development in Ireland. The Minister should make every effort to streamline and modernise this particular area of registration with whatever modern techniques he feels necessary.

The first directive also concerns improving the interests of employees, the provision about preferential payments in the winding up of companies. There is considerable public disquiet concerning a lack of information on some of the provisions of former legislation. Every assistance should be given to the registration office to speed up their processes to enable them to have the necessary powers for enforcing the law. As far as I am concerned that simply means that it can be sometimes futile to promote legislation and give new powers to new areas of activity concerning all aspects of Irish life when the ones already promoted and established here and put on the Statute Book are not being implemented. While it is purely our function here to deal with current application—I use that word guardedly—by Ministers to promote legislation for our perusal with a view to getting it on the Statute Book, I often wonder about some of the measures that subsequently become law because that is the last we or any of the people affected by them hear about them.

I ask the Minister, whatever we do here, to take on to himself the necessary functions, powers and inspectorate to implement the law. The 1963 Act is an enormous volume of law. It was based on the 1948 Act in Great Britain which goes back a long time. Broadly speaking, it covered every aspect of it but the provisions of it were allowed to go by default and other provisions were not promoted as they did not seem appropriate to the particular circumstances that applied in our case. I am convinced that a lot of the companies that have got into difficulty and have caused public disquiet because of some disclosures of an unseemly nature attached to them in the recent past, might well have been averted if we had implemented the rule of law as it was already on the Statute Book. It is in the public interest that the maximum information of relevant clauses attached to company registration be available to the public at the earliest possible time. There is no doubt that registration of a company with limited liability bestows considerable advantage — the Minister hinted at this and I concur — on the promoters and the shareholders. I believe they have a corresponding responsibility and obligation in regard to the filing of returns. It must be admitted that these are not too onerous. People are negligent in complying with existing legislation and regulations.

I believe if we could bring about a happier relationship with the total number of companies — it is very large as the Minister says — then perhaps we would be in a better position to deal with some of those who are bringing the law into disrepute. I would regard it as reasonable and essential that the registration office would demand that people in such companies would make available all the necessary information at the earliest possible moment. It appears to me that if the registration office had to be continually seeking information which is due to them in law, it would be necessary then to pay due note to those companies which were not complying with the demands of the registration office. It would be entirely unfair that the registration office should spend an enormous amount of time in administration following up something which the companies are obliged in the first instance to provide in order to continue their registration.

The provisions of the first directive which is now law in this country, must be implemented to guarantee and secure more regular and faster filing of annual returns of these companies. To put it bluntly, there must be a much improved observation of the law in regard to all matters concerned with companies. There are very strong penalties for failure to comply with the requirements of the 1963 Act, including matters such as filing of documents, returns and statements, holding meetings and providing other information to the registrar of companies. I would expect that these regulations would be implemented rigidly. It would be interesting to hear from the Minister what experience he has gleaned from the registrar's office since the implementation of the first directive and subsequent legislation in support of it, what experience has been gained now subsequent to the legislation already there and if he can point out serious areas that companies are not complying with. I believe when he has a quick look at the 65,000 the Minister said of limited liability companies and——

It is 69,000.

I am quite sure that the figure is the total number registered in the country and is not the number actually trading at this time. I venture to say that perhaps the number trading and those that need to be looked at first would be somewhere around 50,000 to 55,000. Perhaps it is in the area of the intervening 12,000 to 14,000 that the problems arise. That is why monitoring by the registration office to see that companies registered are bona fide registrations in the first place might very well be the area the registration office could apply themselves to in relation to getting a good idea about what is going on relative to company law and company practice at this time.

The legislation to implement the Fourth Directive of the EEC, which the Minister also referred to, is of particular interest. The Fourth Directive must be regarded as a major directive and a major change in direction which it is expected will be incorporated into our company law to comply with our obligations under the treaty. As we all know the Fourth Directive deals with the content of the format of company accounts, their presentation and publication. It also embraces both public and private limited companies.

Debate adjourned.
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