Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 1 Jun 1983

Vol. 343 No. 2

Adjournment Debate. - Picketing at Leinster House.

Mr. G. Brady

I thank you for your co-operation today in giving immediate attention to what I regard as a matter of vital importance to this House in the conducting of its affairs and also as an integral part of our democratic process.

I should like to say at the outset that in raising this matter I would not wish it to be interpreted in any way as meaning that I have anything against the democratic right of individuals to protest, to picket or to demonstrate. Having said that, I should like to bring to the Minister's attention the fact that the law regarding protesting of this kind is being contravened on what would appear to be almost a daily basis. Subsection (1) of section 28 of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939, relates to the prohibition of meetings in the vicinity of the Oireachtas and reads:

It shall not be lawful for any public meeting to be held in, or any procession to pass along or through, any public street or unenclosed place which or any part of which is situate within one-half of a mile from any building in which both Houses or either House of the Oireachtas are or is sitting or about to sit....

We realise that this law is being brought into disrepute. I am not casting blame in any direction in that respect. I am merely calling on the Minister as the chief custodian of the law-and-order situation to take action immediately to ensure that the law is either upheld or if in the opinion of the Minister, it cannot be enforced, modified.

It is a Garda function to protect entrance to the House and to protect the Houses of the Oireachtas. Clear instructions must be given to the Garda in that matter. To give a recent example of what I am talking of, I would cite the deplorable situation we witnessed on Tuesday of last week outside this House. I was one of a number of Deputies who was advised not to enter Leinster House because of the picketing that was taking place. When I insisted on my democratic right to enter, my car was thumped and I was abused verbally as were other Deputies.

In respect of all the Members of the House and also of members of the staff as well as of our constituents who come in and out of here to see us, something must be done about this situation. Action must be taken now before a situation of this scale can magnify and quite easily get out of hand. I realise the difficulty with which these situations present the Garda. The Minister may state that up to 1,000 gardaí would be required to enforce the law in this case. So be it. We must address ourselves to that problem. We could be faced with the situation where a picket or a protest outside Leinster House could get out of hand and could not be controlled. The public look to this House. Everything in relation to the maintenance of law and order comes from the Houses of the Oireachtas. I feel that, in order to do the best for this House, a revision of section 28 of the Offences Against the State Act will have to be made immediately. That Act imposed a £50 fine in 1939. If that figure was updated we could be talking in terms of a fine of £1,000 on each person who defies the law. What kind of situation would we have if everybody protesting outside Leinster House was arrested and fined that some of money? Under the provision a prison sentence of up to three months can be imposed for a breach of that rule.

The power under this Act has been steadily eroded. There is general acceptance that you can go to Leinster House and protest, picket and do whatever you like, without taking any cognisance of a very firm law on the Statute Book. I do not want to be dramatic about this. I do not want to provoke a situation that would cause embarrassment to those trying to enforce the law. Ten years ago people would not get involved in unruly demonstrations. There has been a gradual erosion of public confidence in the maintenance of law and order.

A start should be made in this House. If the Minister took a firm line in protecting the Houses of the Oireachtas this would be appreciated by every person in the Parliament building and would be looked up to by the general public. I am not depriving anyone of his or her democratic right to protest. I do not see anything wrong with inviting members of a protest group into Dáil Éireann. That can very often help a situation on the boil. But it should not be on the boil outside the gates of Leinster House, either Kildare Street or Merrion Square side. Protests and pickets should be a distance from the gates of Leinster House. Some assurance should be given to the House this evening. I appeal to the Minister to take immediate action to enforce the law. Or, if he says it cannot be enforced, let us change the law, but let us not make a mockery of it as is the case at present.

Minister for Justice (Mr. Noonan,

Limerick East): I am very glad of the opportunity to come in here on the Adjournment and to clarify the situation. I share the concern of Deputies on all sides of the House that public represetatives should be free to enter the House without fear of being molested.

I would, first of all, like to make it clear that the holding of meetings or demonstrations within the precincts of this House is not unlawful as a matter of course. The Offences Against the State Act, 1939, provides that any such meeting or demonstration shall not be lawful where a Garda officer not below the rank of chief superintendent has, by notice given to a person concerned in the holding or organising of any such meeting or demonstration, probibited the holding of the particular meeting or demonstration, or where a member of the Garda Síochána calls on the persons taking part in such a gathering to disperse.

The recent demonstration which has given rise to concern was not unlawful. The Garda Síochána had no information that there would by any attempt to interfere with Members of the House. I consider it only fair to say that only a small number of those involved in the demonstration went beyond the bounds of what is permissible in exercising the right to protest. There have been many marches and demonstrations in the vicinity of Leinster House in recent years. Responsibility for ensuring that such events do not interfere excessively with the rights of others is a matter for the Garda. They deserve credit for the manner in which they carry out their duties in this regard. I wish it to be known, however, that interference with Members of the Oireachtas of the kind engaged in by a few of those involved in recent demonstrations will not be countenanced and the Garda will take appropriate action to ensure that the rule of law is maintained.

I take the point Deputy Brady made when he said that he and other Deputies were advised not to enter Leinster House. I do not know who advised the Deputy but I assure the House that access to Leinster House will be provided for Deputies and anybody seeking to block or hinder Deputies from entering Leinster House will be dealt with by the Garda Síochána. Nobody requires to go outside the law to register a protest. I hope we will not see a recurrence of the type of activity which occurred.

There was a time in the past when notices prohibiting meetings in the vicinity of Leinster House were made as a matter of course. That policy was discontinued towards the end of the sixties, as far as is known in my Department at the moment. I have not been able to establish the precise time when the practice was changed. It was assumed then that there would be widespread recognition by those organising protests of the need to ensure that there would be no interference with the rights of Members of the House and that protests would be conducted strictly on that basis. Generally speaking, that assumption has proved to be well-founded and I do not think the policy should be changed just because of a couple of regrettable occurrences. Naturally, if further experience shows that a more restrictive policy is necessary in the interest of the preservation of the rights of Members of the Oireachtas, the policy will be reviewed as a matter of urgency.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 2 June 1983.