Deputy Gene Fitzgerald has been given permission to ask a Private Notice Question of the Minister for Labour.
Private Notice Questions. - Dublin Gas Company Dispute.
I wish to ask the Minister for Labour if he will intervene as a matter of urgency to prevent the issue of 375 dismissal notices to employees of the Dublin Gas Company today or tomorrow because of a threatened industrial dispute and if he will make a statement on the matter.
The dispute at the Dublin Gas Company results from the proposed conversion to natural gas. The unions had sought compensation for the conversion and the matter was referred to the Labour Court, which heard the case on 18 May. The Labour Court recommended a phased increase of 8 per cent — 5 per cent on acceptance and 3 per cent from 1 July 1984 — and a lump sum of £1,800 in four phases up to June 1985. This recommendation was rejected by the company who have now threatened to withdraw from the conversion programme to natural gas.
I understand that dismissal notices for up to 400 staff may be imminent and that industrial action by the unions is possible should dismissal notices issue. I have had no request from either side to intervene in this dispute but I am keeping in close touch with developments which could have serious consequences for gas users and which threatens the proposed conversion to natural gas in Dublin. The dispute-settling machinery of my Department is available to assist in finding a solution.
Now that the Minister is aware that dismissal notices may be issued soon, will he not agree that in order to avoid the situation deteriorating — within a matter of days Dublin city may be deprived of gas supplies and another 400 or 600 people may be unemployed — he should be seen at least to be interested in preventing a further deterioration? Does the Minister not think he should intervene as a matter of good government to prevent the notices being issued?
I have said the dispute-settling machinery of my Department is available to both sides. I am well aware of the situation. I must remind the Deputy of the debate we had on the Estimate last Thursday when I said it was my policy, as Minister for Labour, in the matter of industrial disputes to have no direct intervention in them. It has been my judgment since I first took office that direct intervention is totally counter-productive in terms of fostering a generally healthy industrial relations climate in the long term. I believe that to go in now without any request from either side to intervene would be counterproductive in this situation.
Would the Minister not agree that what he is saying is the direct opposite to what some of his colleagues in Government would have said if I had used that inept defence? The Minister must be aware that a dispute which could have very serious consequences is threatened. As a matter of urgency, would he intervene to prevent the notices being issued and, if possible, allow the dispute settling machinery of his Department to prevent this dispute worsening? I am asking him to see that the Government do something to prevent this industrial chaos which is taking place everywhere.
I have set out my policy in the Department and both sides are aware of it. This is the best course I intend to follow and I will ensure that we keep in close touch with the situation and have the dispute settling machinery available as soon as there is a request for it.
Is it the Government's policy to encourage the industrial chaos we are seeing at the moment with the airport strike, threatened water supplies and now gas supplies?
A statement by the Taoiseach.
There you go again, a Cheann Comhairle.
You ruled out of order two of my Private Notice Questions——
That is not relevant.
It is relevant to what I am going to ask. I cannot imagine what could have greater relevance both to the consummer and to the economy generally than the price of petrol——
The Deputy may seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
Because of your reluctance to allow the matter to be considered by way of Private Notice Question, I wish to raise it on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I had a Private Notice Question down to the Minister for Agriculture asking if Kerry was going to be made a special status area for bovine TB testing and if private veterinarians will be allowed do the testing. I wish to raise this matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
As a relative newcomer to this House, you might be able to assist me. I have put down two questions, one to Fisheries and the other to Defence, regarding the protection of the livelihood of traditional salmon fishermen. I am appalled that this Government——
Deputy Gallagher will resume his seat.
This is much more important than any other private——
Deputy Gallagher will resume his seat.
I am here to protect the rights——
Deputy Gallagher will leave the House for the remainder of the day.
(Interruptions.)
If it helps to further their case I will gladly leave the House.
Deputy P. Gallagher withdrew from the Chamber.
That is an unfair ruling by the Chair.
Deputy D. Andrews will withdraw that remark.
I will not.
Deputy David Andrews will withdraw that remark or he will leave the House.
(Interruptions.)
I am here to maintain order. I will not have the Chair trampled on. The Chair cannot be trampled on.
Neither can Members of this House.
Am I still to leave the House?
Yes, Deputy David Andrews is to leave the House for the remainder of the day.
I will as a mark of protest on behalf of the backbenches whom you have been treating so disgracefully by behaving like a schoolmaster.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy D. Andrews withdrew from the Chamber.
I would like a reply from the Taoiseach as he is in the House. As a relative newcomer to this House I think it is shameful——
If the Deputy has a question he should put it.
I tabled a question to the Taoiseach — Question No. 52 on today's Order Paper — and it is now directed to the Minister for Agriculture. I would like an explanation——
If Deputy Byrne will bear with the Chair for a moment, the Chair has no control over the transfer of questions, and I regret I cannot help Deputy Byrne on that matter. A statement by the Taoiseach.
It seems regrettable that two very respected Members of this House should have to leave in protest against the manner in which the business of the House is being conducted. Perhaps in the circumstances you would reconsider your decision and invite the Deputies back. They were only making a point, one in support of an attitude which is widespread in the west because we are being shabbily treated by the Government, and the other suggesting the way the business of the House might be conducted. In the best interests of all concerned I ask you, as a fairminded man, to invite the two Deputies back to continue to serve the public they were elected to represent.
Do it in the interests of an orderly House.
If we thought that would happen we would invite them back.
Order, please. The Chair regrets as much as any Deputy that it is necessary either to ask Deputies to withdraw from the House or to have them suspended. The Chair must maintain order and protect the Chair from attack. The Chair must impose Standing Orders. In respect of Deputy D. Andrews, he accused the Chair of making an unfair ruling and refused to withdraw it. The Chair could not tolerate that.
Perhaps if you had persisted a little longer——
Order, please Deputies.
The House recognises that this is becoming a matter of daily concern. Is it not reasonable to suggest that this side of the House has been very reasonable and that had you adopted the attitude you adopted this morning, which allowed the matter to cool, and perhaps if you were consistent in your attitude in dealing with these matters, we might not have these suspensions?
If I were to adjourn the House every time it became necessary to establish order we would be in and out of this Chamber all the time. We would be a laughing stock. I regret the attacks that are being made on the Chair. I regret the arguments with the Chair, and I can only appeal to all Deputies to read the remarks of the Leader of your party on the day I was honoured by being elected to this Chair and to follow those remarks. If that were done we would have order in the House and we could get on with business. I am calling the Taoiseach to make a statement.
Would you not agree your predecessors in office allowed Members to get some information about how they might——
Deputy Flynn, please——
This is something which is being denied by you.
It is not. I am calling the Taoiseach to make a statement.