Vol. 344 No. 4
asked the Minister for Agriculture the number of applicants who have applied for participation in the reduced interest scheme for farmers who are in severe financial difficulty; and if he will make a statement on the undue delay in persons qualifying under the scheme.
3.
asked the Minister for Agriculture who has the final decision on persons who qualify for participation in the reduced interest scheme for farmers who are in severe financial difficulty.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 3 together.
That is not fair.
We will do our best.
Responsibility for determining the eligibility of applicants under the reduced interest scheme for farmers in severe financial difficulty, otherwise known as the rescue package, rests with the associated banks and the ACC who are wholly responsible for the administration of the scheme.
I understand that approximately 9,000 farmers have applied for benefit under the scheme and that over 3,000 farmers have so far been approved for benefit. I am anxious to see the processing of applications completed as soon as possible but in view of the nature and complexity of the scheme progress is as good as could be expected.
On 28 April 16,000 applicants had qualified. That figure is almost double at the moment. With regard to the jackboot tactics being adopted by financial institutions to many of the farmers who made applications, would the Minister use his influence to have extra staff to help to qualify the necessary applicants?
In the final analysis this is up to the lending institutions — the associated banks and the ACC — to decide on a person's eligibility.
(Limerick West): Do they have the final decision?
Yes, to qualify for the package in question one has to draw up a plan to show that the farm can return to viability. That requires extensive planning and discussion between the farmer and the lending institution. The drawing up of the plan can take a considerable length of time. I believe this is the major obstacle which is stopping people from qualifying for this scheme.
I have a copy of the application form here. There has been a certain amount of co-operation on the part of the ACC but many bank managers have been resisting——
A question please, Deputy.
I want to tell the Minister——
The Deputy may wish to tell the Minister something, but that is not proper to Question Time. The Deputy must confine himself to a question.
The Minister may not be aware that many bank managers have been resisting helping farmers to qualify. This is not a very cumbersome or complicated document to complete. I have made numerous representations on behalf of farmers and have been told by the financial institutions that these applications are in the hands of the Department. This means there is a faceless person in the Department who has some influence on that scheme.
I would not agree with that. My Department are as helpful as possible. In order to speed up the assessing of applications, there is a monitoring committee comprising officials of my Departciate ment, the financial institutions and the farming organisations, and the committee are doing everything they can to see that the scheme is speeded up.
I got a reply from the Minister on 9 June to say that he was looking into that possibility——
A question please, Deputy.
Will you allow me to develop the question a little? In reply to a question on 9 June the Minister said he would look into the matter of extending the scheme to the merchant banks which have a considerable amount of dealing with the farming community. Has he had an opportunity to do that?
I raised a query about this in my Department. The merchant banks were not included in the original scheme and they are not contributing to the financing of the scheme. The initial reply I got is that they could not be included but I will question further the possibility of their being included.
The Department are making a financial input into this, as is the EEC, and it should cover the whole range of financial institutions.
The Minister said there were 9,000 applicants for this scheme. How many applicants have been ruled out completely? Would the Minister agree that the banks and the ACC have been black guarding the farmers, whereas in 1978 they almost forced money on the same farmers. Now that inflation is down to almost 9 per cent, will the Government introduce a scheme to bring interest rates into line with the inflation rate?
I am sorry I do not have the figures to the first part of the Deputy's question, which I think I gave in an earlier debate, but the number is relatively small. I would not go along with the sentiment that the banks are blackguarding——
A very strong word.
Yes.
When one sees farms for sale in the papers it is not a bit strong.
It is hardly parliamentary language.
I do not think strong or intemperate language will help the cause of farmers in difficulty. We have to be prudent. The attitude of bank managers varies from bank to bank. During last week's Estimates debate I said I was very anxious that the banks give very sympathetic consideration to each applicant and I would like to see uniformity in the application of standards towards the individuals involved. The Deputy spoke about the reduction of interest rates because the inflation rate has come down considerably. It does not follow that interest rates will come down because interest rates are dictated almost entirely by external factors. It is not something we can do much about.
I would advise Deputies——
I asked if there were any proposals——
Deputy Byrne please do not shout down the Chair. I am advising Deputies in their own interest to pass to the next question. We have spent 15 minutes on three questions.
In view of the fact that the lending institutions make their decisions purely on commercial grounds with profit motivation and cutting their losses, will the Minister and his Department consider it suitable that they should have some input into appeals against decisions where farmers are being unfairly treated? In a situation where these lending institutions feel they will not get their money back, they leave the farm there and sell it later.
I am very anxious that that would not happen and my Department are entering into discussions with the lending institutions.
Will we have an appeals procedure?
I do not want to pre-empt any decisions reached at those talks. We are arranging for talks to see if we can reach a sympathetic understanding.
I advise Deputies to let me pass to the next question.
Is the failure of the monitoring committee to qualify people for this scheme the main reason for the delay——
The reason for the delay is as I outlined. This is a very complex scheme and requires very difficult and complicated plans to be drawn up. Sometimes there is a reluctance on the part of the farmer to agree to the type of viability plan needed——
That is not right.
This plan may involve selling portion of a farm or some other assets——
That is a banker's answer.
(Limerick West): Has the Minister the following information in his brief, and if he does not will he make it available later? What has been the Department's contribution to this scheme? Does the Minister see any hope for the farmers who, in the opinion of the monitoring committee, do not have a viable future? Has he any plans to help those farmers?
No, that is one of the reasons I am arranging for my Departments' officials to meet the lending institutions. In answer to the first part of the Deputy's question about the amount of money available——
(Limerick West): The amount of money contributed to the scheme.
The scheme is expected to cover borrowings amounting to £190 million and the cost to the State is expected to be about £30 million over five years. As the Deputy knows, the State is contributing half and the lending institutions the other half.
May I——
Do you not think it would be better if we moved to the next question?
Is the Minister aware of the very heavy collateral security being demanded by the financial institutions where farmers have restructural loans? Is he further aware that there is a specific number of farmers who, due to the high cost of land, of money and of livestock over the past few years are in very severe difficulties and no amount of restructuring, reduced interest rates or rescue packages can take them out of their difficulties? I appeal to the Minister to set up a special committee or to second an officer from his Department to negotiate with the lending institutions and the farmers' organisations to ensure that these people will not be lost to agriculture and, in particular, that the farming family will be preserved?
I am so aware. The monitoring committee fulfils the functions about which the Deputy is talking. There are, however, all sorts of individual problems, no two cases being alike. This is a most complex situation and one would want the wisdom of Solomon, and probably more, to solve the overall problem. We are doing our best, but there is a whole scale of hardships involved. Some are not as genuine as others, but each case has to be judged on its merits.
