asked the Minister for Industry and Energy the progress that has been made to date in the arrangements to bring Clondalkin Paper Mills back into production; and when and in what manner paper production at the plant will be undertaken.
23.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Clondalkin Paper Mills.
22.
asked the Minister for Industry and Energy when Clondalkin Paper Mills will be reopened.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 22 and 23 together.
The Government will support the reopening of Clondalkin Paper Mills only on the basis of a totally viable project. No proposal has emerged so far which satisfies that condition. The IDA will continue to endeavour, on behalf of the Government, to secure proposals for a viable project.
Would the Minister agree that the Clondalkin Paper Mills would be a viable operation if the energy costs applicable in Ireland, which are controlled by the Government, were not the highest in Europe? Is the Minister aware of the statement issued today by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions which regards the recent statement by the Minister on Clondalkin Paper Mills as a breach of faith on their commitment to reopen the mills? Will the Minister agree to set up the public sworn inquiry asked for by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions? Does the Minister not agree that there is a commitment by the Government, taken over from the previous Government, to reopen the mills, which commitment is specified in a letter sent by Deputy Albert Reynolds, the former Minister for Industry and Energy?
I do not have any information which would suggest to me that if the Government were to arrange for electricity costs for Clondalkin to be reduced, that would necessarily mean that this project would become viable. Such a course of action would, of course, raise the question of precedent in that if one were to reduce electricity prices for one industrial consumer one would have other consumers, for whom electricity is just as large a proportion of their costs, making similar requests. I am sure the Deputy will appreciate that the creation of precedents of such a kind are very dangerous indeed. However, as he is aware, my ambition is to secure a long-term reduction in electricity prices generally and I have taken a number of steps in that direction. As far as the Congress of Trade Unions is concerned I am aware of the statement that was made. The commitment given by the Government in this regard to the congress — I am speaking now of the present Government — was solely to the purchase of the assets of Clondalkin Paper Mills.
That is a U turn.
We did that with a view to trying to secure a viable project in papermaking in the mills. Indeed, I have a number of quotations here from Ministers of the previous Government which indicate that that Government had it clearly in mind that the mills would be opened only on a viable basis. I replied in the Dáil on 21 June 1983 to a question raised by Deputy Taylor in the course of the debate on the Estimate for my Department.
(Interruptions.)
The question was a multiple question and I will quote what I said on 21 June last which was as follows:
The aim I have in regard to this mill is to provide an attractive opportunity for the recommencement of paper making on an entirely viable and economical basis.
I can quote statements made along similar lines by the previous Government on this matter.
It is not in order to give quotations at Question Time.
As far as the public sworn inquiry is concerned, there is no intention to have such an inquiry because there is no need for it. However, I stress that I am anxious to create the conditions in which it might be possible for the mills to be opened on a viable basis. I am asking the Industrial Development Authority to continue their efforts in this regard.
That is a lot of waffle.
Is the Minister telling us now that Clondalkin Paper Mills is bought, paid for by the Government and closed down on a permanent basis? When he says there are no proposals for reopening Clondalkin Paper Mills on a viable basis, does he mean that other private firms have not come forward with such proposals? Has there been any proposal by the Government or the IDA for reopening the mills with the work force who are available and waiting to work in the mills? Has any proposal been put before the Minister? There have been suggestions of a figure of £8 million or £12 million being required over X number of years. Was this in relation to a specific proposal for reopening the mills? Could the Minister compare whatever the particular figure was with the figure which would be paid out over a similar number of years by the Government to the unemployed workers, added to the lack of revenue to the Exchequer from those workers if they were employed, and give us some indication of what the difference would be? Does the Minister realise now the total lack of credibility which the Government now have particularly from the organised work force in the country, the workers in Clondalkin and the public in general?
That is a long speech.
They are all questions which have got to be asked. They are questions which the public are asking because commitments have been given by two Governments.
Questions are permissible but long preambles are not.
They are all questions.
I am glad Deputy Mac Giolla asked all those questions and I will endeavour to answer them. A very great effort was made by the IDA to obtain a viable project for the mills. They circularised, or in some way contacted, approximately 120 firms throughout the world who had an involvement in papermaking. Out of this very extensive trawl, only one active, apparently viable project emerged. That was examined in detail by the Industrial Development Authority over the summer. To ensure that they examined it properly and took a very correct and informed decision on it, they commissioned international consultants, the Boston Consultancy Group, which had previously examined the situation with regard to the Clondalkin Paper Mills, to examine this new proposal. On foot of the most recent report of this consultancy group, the Industrial Development Authority decided against giving grant assistance in this case on the ground that there was only approximately a 20 per cent chance of this being viable — in other words, an 80 per cent likelihood of it not being viable. The House might be interested to know what had changed in the meantime. Between the two reports from the Boston Consultancy Group there had been a substantial deterioration in the world paper market. In real terms, the price fell by approximately 35 per cent over that period. There has also been a much higher level of integration of paper making in Europe and a number of rationalisation schemes in Europe——
We must recognise the fact——
I was asked a number of questions.
I know, but we must recognise the fact that Question Time is over and I want to allow one question to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition.
I have not finished my reply.
That is a peroration on foot of a reply to a question.
To justify the U-turn.
If the Deputy asks the question he has to wait for the answer.
What about the Congress of Trade Unions? Tell us about the inquiry.
Order, please. I am not stopping the Minister but this cannot continue indefinitely.
If the Ceann Comhairle does not wish me to complete my answer, I shall not do so.
I am very glad that we have a very sensible Ceann Comhairle because we have to restrain the influence of perorating Ministers.
If the Deputy wants to ask a question, he may ask it.
The Deputy is having a peregrination.
What proposals has the Minister for Industry and Energy to implement the expenditure by his Government of over £1½ million on the purchase of Clondalkin Paper Mills with a view to revitalising a basic national and strategic industry which is essential, not just for the welfare of the people involved in the area but of the country as a whole? Will he indicate the political will which his Government have in conjunction with the trade union movement——
That is argument.
——and whatever political will is there between the Fine Gael and Labour parties——
Who is doing the perorating now?
——to follow through the decision which has been taken on behalf of the Irish people to the tune of £1½ million to purchase this company for the very good reasons which I have just mentioned?
I shall allow the Minister to answer that and then we move from questions.
The Deputy must not have been listening to my reply.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I indicated quite clearly——
Nobody takes notice of the Minister any more.
——already the steps which the Government took subsequent to the purchase of the assets in question, with a view to getting papermaking established on a viable basis, as always had been the Government's intention in this regard. We contacted 120 firms world wide, arranged for three site visits and carried out a detailed consultancy study on the only serious proposal which emerged and we continue to make whatever efforts are available to us to have the mills opened on the basis of any proposals which may be received. Indeed, if any Member of the House has knowledge of private companies interested in becoming involved in this, I can assure the House that I shall ask the Industrial Development Authority to give these proposals the most serious consideration. However, I want to make it clear that I am not prepared to stand over a situation in which the Government put the taxpayers' money into an industrial project which they have been advised by independent advice and by the Industrial Development Authority has an 80 per cent chance of failure and only a 20 per cent chance of success. That sort of decision taken in the past——
Would the Minister indicate to the House what the Irish Congress of Trade Unions have done?
——by some previous Governments has caused many of the problems which we and the taxpayers now have.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Would the Minister indicate what steps the Irish Congress of Trade Unions have taken?
We are past Question Time now, five minutes past it.
Could I raise the subject matter of Question No. 21 on the Adjournment?
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy. The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.