asked the Minister for Health if he will outline following the recent contamination from Windscale Nuclear Processing Plant into the Irish Sea and the undertaking given by the British Minister for the Environment that an investigation would be carried out; the action he proposes to take to ensure that there is no health risk to this country.
Private Notice Questions. - Nuclear Waste Disposal.
I would welcome the investigation announced recently by the British Junior Environment Minister, Mr. Waldegrave.
Indeed our concerns about the discharge of radioactive effluent and the dumping of radioactive waste at sea have been made known to Britain on several occasions in recent months as well as to other participating countries to the Paris Convention on the Prevention of Marine Pollution from Land Based Sources and the London Convention on the prevention of marine pollution by dumping of wastes and other matter.
Nonetheless, it is my intention to avail of every opportunity to make known Ireland's continuing concern in these matters to the British authorities. I will be taking up this question, through bilateral communication following the completion of consultations with other Government Departments concerned. I can assure the Deputy that this matter is being pursued at the highest level. Our concern about the discharge of radioactive waste from Windscale are to ensure that nothing is done that might cause a health or environmental hazard in the future.
In expressing my dissatisfaction with the Minister's reply, I might point out that my question was tabled to the Minister for Health. Therefore I find it curious, to say the least of it when I was talking about a health risk that the reply emanated from another Minister. I wonder has a mistake been made?
The Chair has no discretion or jurisdiction over a Minister or Ministers answering questions.
I appreciate that.
If the Deputy has a supplementary question he should ask it.
But then to whom should I address my question, a Cheann Comhairle?
To the Minister who answered the question.
But my supplementary question is on a matter of health; is it still in order?
The Chair will adjudicate on that when he hears the supplementary question.
In view of the Minister's unsatisfactory reply and the fact that the British Government have at last accepted the fact that they were not conforming to the standards set out for effluent discharged into the Irish Sea, would either Minister, the Minister for Health or the Minister for Industry and Energy, be prepared to send officials from his Department to Windscale on a fact-finding mission? In fact I find it confusing — because my question was tabled to the Minister for Health — but would the Minister be prepared to esbalish a research unit into the long-term effects of low dosage radiation?
That question sounds like a repeat of the Adjournment Debate last week.
Nonetheless you allowed it, Sir.
But there has been a catastrophic development since that Adjournment Debate.
The position here is that the Nuclear Energy Board, which is under the aegis of my Department, is concerned with safety in these areas within our jurisdiction. As to the long-term effects of radioactivity on human health, that is a matter I would be happy to discuss with my colleague, the Minister for Health, with a view to ascertaining whether the Nuclear Energy Board could usefully co-operate with the various authorities such as the Medico-Social Research Board operating under the aegis of the Minister for Health, with a view to carrying out the type of inquiry about which the Deputy is concerned.
I am glad that the Deputy is concerned about this matter, although he is not the first to raise it. I remember raising the subject when I was on his side of the House. I am glad that action is being taken by the authorities in the United Kingdom in regard to this matter. Perhaps the Deputy knows that a major effluent plant has already been installed at a cost of £80 million sterling at Windcale which will be fully operational next year. I understand that the level of discharge will be improved by a factor of ten as a result of this initiative. However, as I said in my original reply, I am concerned about the matter and I understand that the Minister of State, Deputy Eddie Collins, who has been dealing more directly with this matter, is communicating directly with the British authorities in the very near future after certain interdepartmental consultations have taken place so that the best possible case will be made.
Is the Minister aware that the British authorities will not permit the French to pollute the English Channel and yet we permit this to happen in the Irish Sea? We have been hoodwinked by the information which has come our way. Even with the best will in the world, the Government do not have accurate information and that is why I called for an on-the-spot inquiry. Shell fishermen——
A question, please, Deputy.
——are using geiger counters to determine whether or not their catches are safe.
I do not accept that Irish authorities, such as the Nuclear Energy Board are not competent to do the job. They are monitoring the situation on a daily basis. I understand that a survey is being carried out today on the Irish coast by the Nuclear Energy Board on the levels of contamination to see if there is cause for concern. This matter is being kept constantly under scrutiny by the competent Irish authorities.
In view of the fact that little or no progress has resulted from the many representations by Irish Governments to the British Government in respect of this matter and that a junior British Government Minister is reported as having admitted that British Nuclear Fuels Limited have not been meeting the standards laid down by the British Government, will the Minister reconsider my proposal made to him in a question recently that he request that an international body be set up to inquire specifically into the incidence of nuclear pollution at Windscale?
The Paris and London Conventions to which I referred already provide international means for examining marine pollution from Windscale or similar sites. I do not quite see the point in setting up a separate inquiry into this plant. The appropriate way to deal with it is through existing machinery.
Does the Minister agree that if the existing machinery is not effective within a reasonable time it might be appropriate to consider making a complaint and seeking an interdict from the European Court or from the International Court of Justice?
If it could be shown scientifically that we were suffering serious problems as a result of discharges from Windscale, I would be prepared to contemplate any course of action which would help in having the matter solved, including the one suggested by the Deputy. However, my information suggests that the discharge in the case most recently referred to would have no more than very local implications in the vicinity of the plant itself. The competent Irish authorities, the Nuclear Energy Board in particular, are already carefully monitoring the situation and we should have confidence in the authorities which this House has established for the purpose of ensuring safety in this area.
The Nuclear Energy Board have stated that there are emissions——
That is not a question. Deputy Haughey, please.
The Minister keeps talking about Windscale but is he aware that the British Nuclear Fuel Board have since changed the name of this nuclear plant, for what reason we can leave to the imagination? Has he complete confidence in the Nuclear Energy Board in this regard and is he aware that many people are of the opinion that the Nuclear Energy Board here take most of their information and judgments from their counterparts in London? Furthermore, is the Minister aware that after the Nuclear Energy Board told us that there was nothing in particular to worry about, an English beach had to be closed to the general public as the result of a discharge from what used to be called Windscale but which is now called something else?
Perhaps the Deputy would advise his colleague in the matter of nomenclature. I merely referred to this plant by the name used by Deputy Brady in his question. The Nuclear Energy Board discussed this matter with me today and advised me that the discharge in question, leading to the closure of a beach in England, would not have significant implications outside the area immediately affected. I have no reason to doubt——
I do not believe it.
I have no reason to doubt, as Deputy Haughey seems to have, the confidence of the Nuclear Energy Board which has worked under successive Governments to the apparent satisfaction of all of them. However, if Deputy Haughey has information about the Nuclear Energy Board which he now feels justifies taking a different approach, I would certainly be happy to receive that information from him.
I am allowing Deputy Faulkner to ask a question and then I am moving on to the next one.
The Minister mentioned a number of international bodies such as the Paris Convention, the Nuclear Energy Agency and the International Atomic Energy Agency. Would he state what input these international organisations have made into any investigation of the nuclear pollution at Windscale?
The agencies to which I referred were the Paris Convention and the London Convention. I did not refer to the other agencies named by the Deputy. I mentioned them as international agencies that are available for raising problems we might have in regard to discharges by other countries. That was in the context of a question from the Deputy where he suggested that we should set up an independent, separate international investigation process. I was pointing out to him that there is already machinery available to us.