asked the Minister for Health the progress that has been made in the provision of Tallaght hospital, County Dublin; and if, in view of the urgent need for this facility there, he will expedite its provision.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Tallaght (County Dublin) Hospital.
8.
The Tallaght Hospital Board, which was appointed to plan and build the new hospital, is expected to complete the planning brief for the hospital before Christmas.
On submission of the brief to me, I will have it examined in my Department as quickly as possible. It would then be my intention to allow the further stages of planning to proceed on the development as resources allow.
Could the Minister give some indication to the House as to when we may see construction work commencing on this hospital which is so urgently needed? Secondly, would the Minister be prepared to use existing plans based on other hospitals of comparable size to save time, in view of the urgency? Finally, can the Minister confirm that the site for the hospital is under the control and in the possession of his Department?
The board are now well advanced into Stage 1 of formal planning, that is the preparation of the planning brief. As the Deputy knows, there are no less than six separate stages. After that, there is the development and control plan, then the sketch design, the construction and drawings, the bill of quantities and the invitation to tenders. I am not as yet in a position to give the precise date but the completion of these remaining stages in a project costing some £60 million would take, on planning alone, perhaps up to three years. Dublin Corporation have agreed to the transfer to the Department of a 38-acre site in Tallaght for the new hospital, in exchange for 39 acres of land at Cabra which belongs to the Department of Health. We have made the exchange and the Chief State Solicitors' office are working on the legal formalities of the transfer at present. However, I assure the Deputy that in advance of the construction of the hospital, a proposal from the Meath, the Adelaide and the National Children's Hospitals to establish consultant-staffed, out-patients clinics in Tallaght in advance of the provision of the hospital has been accepted. Discussions are going on between the three hospitals, the Eastern Health Board and my Department about the type and number of clinics to be provided and the type of accommodation required for them, so that we will have an integration of those hospitals into the Tallaght area.
When will they be in operation?
I am very anxious to have them on stream as quickly as possible. I have had consultations with the hospitals concerned and am receiving excellent co-operation from them. The consultants will go to Tallaght and become involved and the hospital will go ahead in the meantime.
When it was agreed to build a hospital in Tallaght, what was the projected date of completion and will the hospital be completed within that date? Secondly, could the Minister say if suitable premises are available for these out-patient clinics which he hopes to have there in the near future?
There are undoubted difficulties in terms of obtaining suitable interim accommodation in Tallaght. I have had great difficulty with relation to an employment exchange, not to mention out-patients' clinics. My Department and the hospitals concerned are working actively on that issue. There was no time scale in terms of the Tallaght major hospital development. The board were appointed in March 1981; the planning takes a number of years and the construction will take another three to four years. This is a very major project involving £60 million in current costs.
I just want to ask the Minister two general questions.
I would point out to the Deputy that he has told me that he is going to ask general questions and this is about a specific hospital.
They are on this issue. Is it the private consultants who decide on the hospitals?
No. The Tallaght Hospital Board have accepted a proposition that the appointment of architects which is of considerable importance to this hospital should be by competition. The board are discussing the terms of the competition with the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland. I expect to get the agreed terms in the near future. This will be a public hospital. I have advised the board that I am not prepared to sanction any private hospital on the campus of this hospital.
Usually architects' fees and consultants' fees for the design of public buildings such as schools and hospitals are 12¾ per cent. In times of high unemployment and low recruitment in the public sector, it cost £7.2 million to design this hospital which cost £60 million.
That is giving and not requesting information.
Will the Minister appoint the design team when he receives the planning brief when it is completed by the board? Does he envisage any difficulty in getting the necessary £60 million in the present economic situation?
That seems to be a separate question.
Stage 1 has not come to me yet. The next stage is the development of the control plan for the 39 acres and the layout. Stage 3 will be the sketch design. I will be in very close touch with the hospital board in that regard. I hope some public representatives will serve on the board. There is none on it at present.
Can the Minister tell us why he will not allow private hospital facilities to be built on the campus since many people would like to pay for their own private health care to relieve the Exchequer which appears to be very hard pressed?
Basically it is a matter of the control of resources. I hold the view that if hospital consultants wish to cater for private patients it is their privilege to do so. In relation to Beaumont where seven acres were sought, or Tallaght where a slice of the campus site was also sought, I do not believe public money should be used. A major public hospital should be on a public, integrated and unified basis for the people at large. That will be generally accepted.
Surely the Minister must accept that it is in the interests of good health care and healthy economics that, if consultants want to build their own private hospital on a campus, they should be allowed to do so?
Not in terms of availing of public funds. That is the issue.
In terms of good health care.