Deputy Tunney has sought and has been granted permission to raise on the Adjournment the reasons a lady imprisoned in Mountjoy was not allowed to speak to a visitor in the Irish language. He has nine minutes and the Minister has four.
Adjournment Debate. - Use of Irish Language in Mountjoy Prison.
There is an Irish proverb which says: Dá fhad an lá, tagann an óiche. It is applicable to the circumstances which obtain in the matter of having a question raised on the Adjournment. I suppose it is also applicable in respect of any person so unfortunate as to have to spend some time in prison. In the minutes available to me, I hope to get the Chair's understanding and the Minister's sympathy in respect of a situation which existed in Mountjoy Prison after a lady, a Mrs. Cáit Coyne, had been sent there because she had refused to pay a television licence based on the objection that RTE at the moment do not satisfy the requirements of the Act or, indeed, the normal requirements of any native Irish speaker in the matter of programmes in the Irish language, programmes relating to Irish life generally. This lady, who has never come under notice up to that point for even the most minor misdemeanour, having, in pursuit of that principle, refused to pay the licence fee, was consigned to Mountjoy Prison — a prison which we understand is very overtaxed and cannot accommodate people who have been convicted of very serious crimes.
I do not have to remind the House that our Constitution regards the Irish language as the first language and the English language as being second. I do not have to remind the House that all political parties — Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael, Labour and the Workers' Party — have, as an objective, the restoration of the Irish language, indeed for very good reasons. We all know, too, that in deference to that policy there are certain areas in the country where Irish is the spoken language and because of that and the contribution which they are making to the preservation and restoration of the language they are accredited certain preferential treatment.
This lady was born in the Gaeltacht. From the time that she married into a family carrying that illustrious name of Coyne — she is the sister-in-law of the late Mairtin Coyne, the greatest Irish writer of all time — she has continued to speak Irish. After she was sent to Mountjoy Prison, I went up to see her with a friend of mine and I must say that in respect of the welcome which I got I would have no objection. I was greeted there by the Deputy Governor, who spoke to me in the Irish language. I met subsequently a wardress who spoke to me in the Irish language and I was allowed have with Mrs. Coyne a conversation lasting a quarter of an hour or so. That was on the Monday night. On the Wednesday, Mrs. Coyne was visited by a relation of hers, again a man who carries that proud name. When her visitor had arrived, the wardress who notified her of his arrival, while bringing her to meet him, said that she was sorry but that she had to remind her that she would not be allowed to speak to her visitor in the Irish language. That is not hearsay, it is fact. I believe absolutely what Mrs. Coyne has told me. She is not a lady who, in my acquaintance with her, has ever told a lie. She would not tell a lie. She now finds herself in a position where in deference to her pursuit of the implementation of the policy that every political party here claims to honour and in deference to the requirement of the Constitution, and in deference to what appears in the Standing Orders of this House she is obliged to change into what is regarded as the second language and has been told she may not converse with her visitor in the Irish language.
I do not know the reason why this was done. I could, in helping the Minister towards justification of it, say that in the times we live in, maybe there are occasion when it is felt that a prisoner and a visitor might use language to circumvent the prison regulations. It would have been known to the prison authorities and the Department of Justice that there would not be any such fears regarding this lady. One would have expected that, bearing in mind the work force that are there, it would have been possible to find a warder or wardress who would be able to sit in on whatever conversation was taking place and know what was said from his or her knowledge of the Irish language. If it is not it should be a requirement of people entering that service that they have a knowledge of it.
I do not want to say that this was a plot and somebody did that to thwart Mrs. Coyne but one could, on the evidence, ask if it was not. I am disturbed that in the minds of the public, in the mind of that lady and all of the people on whom we rely to promote this great treasure we have which, in times of depression and difficulty, is a jewel, which does not get its full recognition, the institutions should make so little of themselves as to say to any Irish citizen, in times when we are so concerned about the fundamental rights of other people who have murdered and killed, to remain silent and not say anything about it, in times when there are rights of this, that and the other in relation to people who break the law in every unwelcome fashion, that she cannot converse in the Irish language. The only thing this lady was guilty of was that in the opinion of a certain judge she should be sent to Mountjoy for a specified period because she believed RTE programmes do not do what is required of them under the Act. That is the only fault anybody could attribute to this lady.
I hope the Minister or the prison authorities will send an apology to this lady for what happened. We should make sure that such a thing will not happen in this or any other institution ever again. We had a great ceremony last Saturday for the inauguration of the President. While we could say that the example we give is not the best, many of us claim to treasure out great language, which is the only key we have to our forebears. This language contains all the accumulated wisdom on an ethnic group that is Irish, as no other language does for us. Why should we so belittle it that we would say to two people, whose native language it is — I am not saying the acquired language in the way some have it — that they may not speak that language. That to me is a sign of things that have happened in this country which not alone saddens but frightens me about what our future will be.
, Limerick East): Ar an gcéad dul síos, ní mór dom a rá go gcreidim gur chlaoi na hoifigigh phríosúin a bhí i láthair ar an ocáid i gceist lena ndualgais mar a cheapadar iad a bheith. Creidim leis, áfach, gur ró-chúng i dtuiscint des na rialacha cuí agus gurbh fhearra dóibh gan chur isteach ar an gcomhrá a bhí ar siúl idir Bhean Uí Chadhain agus a nia, fiú má bhí an t-oifigeach a bhí i bhfeidhil na cuairte ar bheagán Gaeilge. Tá mé ag féachaint chuige go n-eiseófar treoir speisialta ina míneófar nach bhfuil sé de dhualgas ar oifigeach deireadh a chur le comhrá, fiú más do-thuighte dó é, nuair nach bhfuil aon chontúirt ann do shabháltacht an phríosúin nó dá dhea-threoir.
Tá ráfla amuigh nach bhfuil polasaí ag mo Roinn-se maidir le húsáid na Gaeilge le linn chuairteanna sna príosúin. Ní fíor san. Tá sé leagtha síos sna rialacha nach mór féachaint chuige, sa mhéid is féidir é, go mbeidh oifigeach le Gaeilge i láthair ar ocáid chuairte nuair is i nGaeilge atá an comhrá idir an príosúnach agus an cuairteoir. Agus bhí socrú dá réir déanta an lá roimh-ré nuair a bhí cuairteoir eile ag Bean Uí Chadhain. Tá fáilte roimh aon phríosúnach labhairt i nGaeilge lena chuairteoirí agus deintear gach is féidir chun oifigeach le Gaeilge a roghnú chun freastal orthu. Ach ní féidir bheith deimhin de go mbeidh a leithéid d'oifigeach ar fáil i gcónaí agus nuair a thagann sabháltacht i gceist ní foláir géilleadh do shochruithe eile. Ach ní raibh cúrsaí shlándála ná sábháltachta i gceist ar an ócáid seo.
Rud eile dhe, ní raibh udaráis an phríosúin faoi aon chomaoin an tarna cuairt a cheadú do Bhean Uí Chadhain le linn di bheith faoi choimeád ar feadh tréimhse ceithre lá. Cuairt amháin a bhí ag dul chuici d'réir na rialacha. Chuala mé an Teachta ag rá go raibh sé féin ann le cuairt freisin. Is dóigh liom gurb é sin an tríú cuairt a bhí aici. Mar fhocal scoir: Cé nach n-aontaím le daoine nach nglacann le horduithe na gCuirteanna agus a thógann príosúntacht orthu féin mar chomhartha bollscaireachta, creidim gurbh fhearr ar an ocáid seo dá ligfí don chúairt dul ar aghaidh agus an scéal mar a bhí, agus, mar a dúirt mé cheana, tá socrú á dhéanamh agam chun a tharla ar an ocáid seo a sheachaint san todhchaí. Ag deireadh ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis na Teachta gur thug sé an deis seo dom chun é seo a mhíniú don Teach.
Tuigim go ndúradh leis an gcailín seo roimhré nach raibh cead aici. Ghlac tú leis an clamhsán a rinne mé——
(Cur isteach.)
(Limerick East): ——an lá roimhe sin. Bhí an comhrá trí Ghaeilge. Sin a tharla.
Nuair a bhí sí ag dul chun cainte leis an bhfear seo dúradh léi roimhré nach mbeadh cead aici labhairt i nGaeilge.
(Limerick East): Ní dóigh liom go bhfuil sé sin ceart.
The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 8 December 1983.