asked the Minister for Finance the amount lost in revenue from County Donegal as a result of the more attractive prices in Northern Ireland.
Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers - Cross-Border Shopping.
17.
It is not possible to say how much has been lost from County Donegal because of purchases in Northern Ireland.
Would the Minister accept that there is a loss of revenue from County Donegal? Would he accept that the law of diminishing returns prevails in County Donegal as a result of the numerous increases — to mention just one, the 49 per cent on petrol since his Government came into office — in taxation which are much higher in the Twenty-six Counties? Is the Minister aware of this?
A Deputy could read today's paper and ask a Minister did he understand it all or something like that.
Does the Minister accept that this arises as a result of the more attractive prices prevailing in the Six Counties?
Yes.
The Minister does accept that.
I am afraid he is not worried about it though.
Is the Minister not in a position——
The Deputy asked if I was aware of it. I said I am aware of it, if the Deputy wants to make something about that. I have been aware of it for some time past.
Now that the Minister is aware, short and naive as his reply may have been——
The Deputy should not enter into argument.
It is the question that is naive, not the reply.
What steps does the Minister propose taking to reverse this trend and ensure that the people of Donegal and other Border counties are not discriminated against as a result of these unjust taxation increases?
This is merely a statistical question——
It is not a statistical one.
It does not even ask the Minister to make a statement.
I would appreciate you ruling me out of order, Sir, if I received the reply in tabular form but I did not get that type of reply.
Does the Minister accept that the drop in sales of petrol from 291 million gallons in 1982 to 270 million gallons in 1983 is not a direct result of reduced consumption but rather of 21 million gallons-plus being purchased in the Six Counties and used in the Twenty-six Counties?
The Deputy has posed a whole series of questions there. On the last one, in terms of the consumption of petrol, I do not agree that the difference between consumption in the two years as indicated by the Deputy is due only to the fact that people from this country are purchasing petrol in Northern Ireland. There are other factors at work there.
Would the Minister qualify that?
The Deputy asked why he did not get a reply in tabular form——
I did not ask that.
He did. He objected to the fact that the reply was not in tabular form. Had I been in a position to put figures on the reply I would have given them in tabular form, had that been appropriate——
Had they been attractive the Minister would have.
I have said very clearly in my reply that it is not possible to say how much revenue has been lost. As to what I propose to do about it, there is very little secret about the fact — and I think there is agreement on all sides about this — that one of the most productive things that could be done to solve that problem, and indeed others, would be to take measures that would permit us to bring tax levels here down to the kind of levels prevailing in Northern Ireland. How exactly we go about that warrants a longer discussion which, in line with your previous ruling, a Cheann Comhairle, would not be appropriate here.
Arising out of the fact that the Minister said he could not give the exact figure, might I ask him if he would give the House his departmental estimate of the amount of revenue lost because of this trade?
I do not have such an estimate.
Surely the Minister must have some estimate of the amount of revenue lost through cross-Border trade arising out of the beneficial tax rates on the other side?
As I said, I do not have an estimate of the amount lost in revenue in County Donegal, as was asked for by Deputy P. Gallagher.
Would the Minister have an estimate for the border counties, an overall figure?
For Border counties——
Has the Minister any estimates to give any lead to the House as to what is the loss in this area?
I think Deputy O'Kennedy, as the senior Member here should——
I am here nearly as long as yourself.
Well, Deputy O'Kennedy is in charge of finance. I think he should co-operate with the Chair in having some order restored.
Is the Chair suggesting that I have no entitlement to ask a supplementary question?
I want to make it perfectly clear that 80 per cent of what has gone on here today is out of order and is more appropriate to the budget debate.
A Ceann Comhairle, are you suggesting that I am out of order in asking a supplementary question? I have asked only one or two supplementary questions today.
Every Member of the House is not entitled to a supplementary question. The Deputy should not reduce Question Time to an absurdity.
Is the Chair to decide who may or may not ask a supplementary question?
Yes.
So the Chair may decide that some deputies are not entitled to ask a supplementary question? Would the Chair not consider that that would be acting in a very biased fashion?
There is a Standing Order. The Chair is being fair.
I want to know the Minister's reaction. I am asking the Minister for Finance his reaction to the proposal.
Question No. 18.
(Interruptions.)
Have you changed your mind?
I am going to restore order here.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Wallace rose.
I am calling Question No. 18, the Deputy will please resume his seat.