Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 21 Feb 1984

Vol. 348 No. 2

Private Members' Business. - Border Areas Development Plan: Motion.

Mr. G. Collins

I move:

That Dáil Éireann welcomes the report of the Economic and Social Committee of the European Communities on a development plan for the Irish Border areas, and calls on the Government to take all the necessary steps to ensure its early and successful implementation.

We welcome this report. I met the group involved when I was Minister for Foreign Affairs. Naturally there is a general welcome in the House for this report because we have at last seen the end result of the committees's deliberations. I am not going into detail but the committee set out to ascertain what the Community could do to assist the areas in question which, being amongst the least economically and socially developed in Europe, have the additional disadvantage of being cut in half by a frontier that hampers normal economic development. It is a fact that this area needs special help and I am glad the committee are recommending that a sum of IR£125 million will be made available from EEC funds to get this scheme under way.

At the outset I want to say that I welcome that move but I know the difficulties that are still ahead because this report has to go to the Commission for approval. If there is a sum of £125 million to be given to implement this plan, I ask the Minister for Finance to ensure that all the money be spent implementing the plan and that none of it will be siphoned off, or that not too much will be lost through administrative costs or anything else. There is a general belief that whatever funds are coming to us from whatever scheme, so much is lost along the way that by the time it filters to the ground the benefits expected never materialise.

I am also happy with this report because it confirms that there has to be cross-Border co-operation. Unless we have that cross-Border co-operation we may scrap this report. It is my belief that it is the intention of the people governing this part of the country to provide the co-operation necessary and essential for the implementation of this plan and for many other reasons, but I am very sceptical, worried and gravely concerned that the Northern Ireland administration and the United Kingdom authorities will not give the co-operation required to ensure that this plan can be implemented successfully for the benefit of the people in these disadvantaged areas.

There has been strong evidence of this in recent times. Only last week more roads were closed. This is not the way to show that there is co-operation between the two communities, that they can exist and help each other. Unless there is a change of attitude by the Northern Ireland Office and the British authorities this scheme will never get off the ground. There is a very serious obligation on our Government to ensure that there is that change in attitude which is essential not just for this plan but for normal everyday living between the two parts of this country.

Experience must have shown everybody that the blocking of roads does not lessen the dangers of terrorism as we know it. On a number of occasions as Minister for Justice and Minister for Foreign Affairs I took the opportunity to explain to those United Kingdom Government representatives the foolhardiness of their idealism in believing that by placing a barrier across the road they will prevent terrorism. This has never worked, as has been proved in the past. I am amazed that the thinking of the British Government at the present time is that this will work.

I expected the Minister for Foreign Affairs to be here tonight but I hope the Minister for Finance will convey to him my belief that he has been sadly lacking in his departmental responsibilities because he was not aware of what was going on, or if he was, that he did nothing about it. I have read reports of different statements made by the Minister for Foreign Affairs. In a private briefing to the political correspondents, as quoted in The Irish Times, 18 February, he said he was aware a review was taking place but he only communicated with Mr. Prior, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, on the day the roads were being blocked. Yet the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Barry, was aware for a considerable time of time — his phrase — that this review was taking place and he did nothing about it.

On a number of occasions in this House we discussed meetings that took place, some impromptu, some totally accidental, mar ea, between our Minister for Foreign Affairs and Mr. Prior, particularly the meeting in Brussels where they had a lengthy unscheduled meeting. I would like to know why our Minister did not take advantage of these many meetings to discuss this problem. It is a little late in the day to expect that a letter which would be delivered on Mr. Prior's desk the day the roads were being blocked would have any effect. There was another meeting between the Minister for Justice and the Minister of State for Northern Ireland — a new concept, one of which I do not entirely approve but I will deal with that on another occasion because I doubt I will have the time to do it tonight — but I wonder why there was not a discussion on road closures and potential road closures at that meeting which was called for the sole purpose of discussing security. If there was such a discussion, why was not our Minister for Justice able to convince Mr. Prior that it was a foolhardy exercise on his part to believe that he would lessen the dangers of terrorism and that he would have a safer community by closing roads when experience showed that the only effect it had was pushing the population further from those whose job it is to maintain law and order?

It was very bad form on the part of Mr. Prior not to consult with the Minister for Foreign Affairs specifically, and this is something I would be extremely worried about. There is one thing — and I am not blaming the Minister altogether for this — but the Department of Foreign Affairs knew this review was going on and I am sure the Department of Justice knew too. Why then were the Ministers not alerted to what was involved in the review of this type of arrangement? If the Ministers were not alerted we would like to know, but if they were alerted and did nothing until it was too late, then we have got ourselves into a very serious mess.

I resent the fact that a member of this Government went hiding behind the coat of an unnamed Garda local chief in the division concerned. He said the garda had agreed to it but the following day there was a denial, an unofficial denial, by the Garda authorities that they were consulted or gave permission for these roads to be closed. There has been a big slip-up here. There has been an effort to try to cover it up, which is one we must expose for what it is. A bad mistake was made. The Department of Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Foreign Affairs knew this review was taking place and did nothing about it. The Minister for Foreign Affairs had many meetings with Mr. Prior. We were told all about it here, in fact chided that they had more meetings than we had. That is fine, but I would like to know why he did not avail of the opportunity to express our total objection to any more closing of roads.

I should also like to know why the Minister for Justice, who had this very special meeting to discuss security matters, did not even know what Mr. Prior had planned or, if he did, he did nothing about it. Having done nothing about it, one must pose the question: was he prepared to go along with it, or is it only now that he has become aware of it?

I might read the following quotation from an article entitled "British army may block more roads near the border" which appeared in The Irish Press of Thursday, February 16 1984:

The NIO yesterday admitted there had been contact between police and at political level on both sides of the border, but their statement indicated that these contacts had taken place when the "application from the security forces to the Secretary of State" for the closure of the roads had been made. The statement added there had been discussions "in the normal way with Irish authorities at police and at political levels".

If that is so, then the Minister for Foreign Affairs is not giving us the full story; and, if the Minister for Foreign Affairs is giving us the full story, then the Northern Ireland Office are deliberately misleading us. There is the following interesting extract from the same article:

Rev. Ivan Foster, DUP Assembly man, claimed yesterday that work began on Tuesday but was stopped, as he understood it, following a phone call to the NIO by an Irish Government representative. Mr. Foster claimed that he made a telephone call to the NIO after which an order was given for work to be resumed.

It is worth commenting on that. It is my belief that Mr. Prior is playing politics with security, playing politics at the insistence of certain personnel in the Assembly in Northern Ireland. We have on many occasions pointed out that we believe the Northern Ireland Assembly will never work. We pointed that out from the very beginning when it was not popular to do so, but we have been proven right as of now. The Northern Ireland Assembly is not working. It appears to me that Mr. Prior is deliberately playing footsie with the security situation in an effort to placate those who still attend the Assembly forum.

The report we have here this evening of the Economic and Social Committee of the European Communities on a development plan for the Irish Border areas can be implemented successfully only if there is this co-operation that must exist right across the board. I know for a fact that Mr. Prior is afraid to take a political decision to re-open some of the roads that have been closed for a long time. I remember personally raising with him the opening of a road, national primary road, No. 3, which runs from Dublin to Enniskillen where it is blocked at Aghalane Bridge. If Mr. Prior and those responsible for security in Northern Ireland have not sufficient faith or at this stage are not convinced that the Irish security forces are doing their very best and successfully doing a very difficult job in trying to contain the subversives, trying to maintain law and order and security, then Mr. Prior is really doing harm to their input, which is a very great one, by saying that roads will be closed.

I do not know whether the Minister for Finance, who is present, was up as early as I was this morning. I was listening to Mr. Prior on the radio before 7 o'clock, when he was played live to us on a tape from a function he attended in London last evening. At this function he addressed over 100 businessmen from Northern Ireland and claimed that their job was to sell the financial stability of investment in Northern Ireland to industrialists in the United Kingdom. In an effort to boost Northern Ireland Mr. Prior said that they had 27 subsidiaries of USA companies in Northern Ireland but that it was unfortunate that much of the United Kingdom investment in Ireland was in the southern part of Ireland. He went on to say: "Mind you, they have many problems down there; God knows, they have many problems down there," which was a deliberate effort on his part to try to prevent United Kingdom investment in this part of the country. I would suggest to the Minister, in the interests of the Government, in the interests of the industrial promotional agencies we have, indeed in the interests of fair play, that Mr. Prior should not be allowed get away with that sort of snide remark. If we are to co-operate — and this development plan can be successfully implemented only if we do co-operate — then it is wrong for Mr. Prior to behave the way he is. I contend he is playing narrow politics with security by way of closing these roads for the purpose of trying to maintain existing support, which he has at a very limited level only, within the Northern Ireland Assembly.

We all want to see the contents of this report implemented. I hope its costs will be finally cleared by the EEC and that it will get under way. But that can be done only if there is proper, mutual understanding and co-operation between the two communities on this island.

Mr. Wilson

I welcome the interest of the Economic and Social Committee of the European Communities in this area. Any report, theoretical or practical, whatever it is, that focuses attention on that area and its problems, its economic and social problems, will be welcomed. This one goes a little further in that it goes into more detail and does some costing. Therefore, this House should welcome the report. This House should see to it also that its contents are implemented. It is a little only, but a little in this case would have more than the effect of the amount spent: it would have propagandistic value as well. The Scots have a proverb: many a mickle makes a muckle. If we could get development going with co-operation between North and South then the whole area North and South would benefit.

The objective is economic and social, as one might expect coming from that committee. It is a committee drawing its personnel from many countries, whose chairman is Signor Giancarlo Zoli of Italy. As well as the members from Ireland there are others from France, Germany and so on. Their whole objective is drawing the regions together. For that reason I endorse the remarks made by Deputy G. Collins in regretting that the Government are not more active in preventing such things happening as happened with the closing of Border roads again. As Deputy Collins said, it is a sop to hard-line Unionists in the Six Counties. It has had no effect except to exacerbate the feelings in the immediate area of the road blockages which in turn will counteract any attempt being made by politicians, economists or members of committees to draw the two areas together and to develop them.

Deputy Collins mentioned something about which I have been asking in this House now for some time — the bridge at Belturbet, the Aghalane Bridge between Cavan and Fermanagh which, if my memory serves me correctly, was restored by Cavan County Council, blown up again, and the authorities in Northern Ireland have never allowed it be reconstructed or have any type of ad hoc bridge erected there which would aid commerce in the area.

The very fact of the Economic and Social Committee's interest is of help to us who are trying to solve this very difficult, intractable problem. These people came and saw the scene on the ground. I have not time to go over their report in detail. They saw the situation, they visited the areas and met representative groups, North and South. They decided that the region needs this development and said that this was a suggestion as to how it should begin. There will be people who will be very critical of areas of it, that it did not cover enough ground. We know, and they tell us in the report, that the Border stretches for 343 kilometres from Dundalk to Donegal, that is 1,697,000 hectares of land covered by the area which is dealt with in this report, and that there are 747,000 people. That is a substantial percentage of the population of the two areas.

The Government have a special responsibility to undertake to implement this report. It may be a sop in ionad na scuaibe but it has the values mentioned already and there is a responsibility on this Government, and particularly on the Minister for Finance, because they have for some time hardened their hearts against that region in their taxation policies. We who represent the constituencies of that area are tired of telling this House the commercial hardship which is being suffered in that area because of the wet decisions taken by the Government. The traders and people involved in commerce and industry there have made representations time and again to the Minister. Unfortunately, these have not had the slightest effect.

This House listened to an argument about decentralisation. The area from Dundalk — and I am dealing with the southern portion now — through Cavan to Letterkenny also were scheduled for measures of decentralisation by a Fianna Fáil Government. That policy was scrapped, discarded, stuck in a pigeon-hole by this Government, again to the detriment of the region. This House has heard me frequently talking about a long overdue development in my county town, the building of a general hospital. That, too, has been scrapped. One hates the tendency to become paranoic but if one were to examine the scene as a result of Government action or inaction, one would tend to become paranoic and to believe that there is some kind of persecution of the area.

The Government would have to fund this project one-third, the UK Government one-third and the European Economic Community one-third, if my understanding of the scheme is correct. What we are asking this House to do is to back us up, to insist that the Government will now give a firm undertaking, make a firm decision to implement this policy. The whole costing would be 179 million ECUs, as far as I remember.

It is important to read into the report of the House the following paragraph:

Statistics indicate that the area is particularly handicapped and has a special claim on Community assistance.

This is not Fianna Fáil political propaganda. This is the view of the Economic and Social Committee of the EEC. The quotation continues:

Farming is the lynchpin of the economy — particularly in the south — and there is relatively little industrial employment. Very low incomes, acute unemployment, outward migration and in some parts, falling population, are further features. Small farms, poor soil, population structure and inheritance and marriage patterns combine to impede the introduction of modern farming methods.

Others will deal with their own specific areas. The area in which I have a special representative interest is the central area as described in this report. As early as 1930 a report was published on drainage for that area — the Report upon Remedial Measures to Alleviate Flooding. It went to 285 pages and 36 pages of maps. From that time to this, the people of that area — which is the central area and carries the highest recommendation for expenditure in this report — have been crying out for that Erne drainage scheme.

The report also gives a summary on page 10 of the recommendations and the House will see that arterial drainage of the Erne catchment area is recommended at 50 million ECUs. That would give employment in the short term to a large number of people, both skilled and unskilled, from ordinary workers to engineers, both north and south of the Border. As a long-term benefit, for Fermanagh and for Cavan and Leitrim — and even north Longford, because the Erne starts in Lough Gowna in Longford — all that area which as of now suffers severely from flooding would gain considerably by this scheme.

One of the economists involved in the preparation of the report indicated that there would be a greater advantage to Cavan, Leitrim and Longford than to Fermanagh. I am not convinced that the advantage is that great. Of course, the nearer to equilibrium, the better the chance that we would have agreement from both North and South to get that scheme under way and without delay. The people have waited a very long time for that scheme to be implemented and the Minister for Finance here present has a glorious opportunity of sharing its cost with the EEC and the UK Government. If he did that, on a cost-benefit analysis alone, he would be benefiting the country economically and all of us politically.

One area which was partly neglected in the report is Killeshandra, a thriving little place mainly due to the co-operative movement. The people of that town feel that they are somehow being cold-shouldered in the proposals, not merely of the Department of Fisheries and Forestry but also in this report. There is a wonderful expanse of water, taking the area from the south, of Lough Gowna, Lough Oughter and Upper and Lower Lough Erne — something unique in this country. That brings me to the next recommendation on which I would like to comment, because I shall not have time to comment on everything. That is the matter of an inland waterways canal at a cost of 5 million ECUs. This is a great area for fishermen from the UK and wonderful promotions are made. However, there is a whole area for development in boating on the two Lough Ernes, Lough Oughter and Lough Gowna, as well as establishing a link between Enniskillen and Athlone. The Chairman of the Chamber of Commerce in Athlone came to see me here some time ago in this regard and with the Woodford Canal-Ballinamore link-up it would be very easy to establish a free waterway from Enniskillen at the very least — and one could go further north-west — right down to Athlone.

The Norfolk Broads are a great attraction for boating enthusiasts in Britain. I was there once and cannot see how people, except those who are very highly urbanised and very seldom see either water or the sky, could get enjoyment out of a place so crowded with boats, where the prow of one boat was practically touching the stern of another.

I am speaking here of a great expanse of waterway on which not a great deal of money would have to be spent to make a big link-up between the Erne and the Shannon. Indeed, there is an airport near Enniskillen which could be utilised for bringing people in. The people in this area have shown great initiative and the tourist boards, both North and South, have shown that they can co-operate and can develop their respective industries to the mutual advantage of both parts of the country.

Many projects are mentioned. There are other aspects of what are recommended for the central region but I have not time to mention them. However, I appeal strongly to the Minister for Finance who is present in the House to make a commitment here tonight to this expenditure which is relatively light, even though he has developed the reputation of being as hard as nails. He will have the UK Government and the EEC sharing the burden with him and he will be advancing a political, social and economic cause.

Acting Chairman (Mr. Prendergast)

I am calling Deputy Leonard. He has ten minutes.

Mr. J. Leonard

Other speakers got 15 minutes.

Acting Chairman

It is ten minutes by agreement.

Mr. J. Leonard

I understood I would have 15 minutes to speak.

Acting Chairman

I beg the Deputy's pardon. He has 20 minutes.

Minister for Finance (Mr. Dukes)

On a point of order, I had been informed Deputy Leonard was to speak from 7.30 p.m. to 7.40 p.m. The only reason I rise now to establish the point is that I had intended to give my colleague, Deputy McGahan, ten minutes between 8 p.m. and 8.10 p.m. I understood that arrangement was worked out across the House.

Acting Chairman

I have a note here which indicates it was agreed with the Whips that Deputy Collins would speak from 7 p.m. to 7.15 p.m., Deputy Wilson from 7.15 p.m. to 7.30 p.m. and Deputy Leonard from 7.30 p.m. to 7.40 p.m. That is the agreement. The 40 minutes was to be divided between three speakers and then the Minister would speak. Perhaps the Deputy would like to commence his contribution.

Mr. J. Leonard

I wish to congratulate the committee, members of which are from six EEC countries, on the report. In their introduction to the report they said they were embarking on a study of the Border areas and that the Economic and Social Committee's intention was to ascertain what the Community could do to assist those areas which, besides being among the least economically and socially developed in Europe, have the additional disadvantage of being cut in half by the Border. Other speakers have dealt with the position regarding the Border and this matter has been highlighted in the past few days by the closure of Border roads.

There have been many reports in the past few years regarding cross-Border development. There has been the Erne study report and the regional development organisation report carried out by Louth, Cavan and Monaghan. Those reports mentioned a figure of £100 million. I made a submission on the Erne study, which I have with me now and I made all the points relating to agriculture and tourism that are included in this report. It appears to me that most of this report is compiled from information collected in previous reports.

However, there has been no specific action following the reports. On 22 June in this House I made the point to the Minister for Finance that the money available under the special fund relating to the Border was not being taken up. I contacted the Minister of State in Northern Ireland, Mr. Prior, following a speech he made in which he blamed us for the lack of cross-Border development. In a reply to me his secretary made the following comment:

You also referred to the monitoring group which played an important role on behalf of the councils on both sides of the Border during the consultant's study of the Erne catchment area. As you rightly say, the group fell into abeyance after the report of the study was published.

I wrote also to Commissioner Burke and I will quote one paragraph from his letter:

Speaking realistically, I agree that development activity in the regions in question is at a fairly low ebb. In proposing the present specific regional development measures for the Border areas of Ireland, the Commission attempted to stimulate this activity but, of course, the measure must be exploited to the full by the member states involved and this perhaps is where the major effort should be addressed.

It appears to me that cross-Border development is nobody's business. Ten years ago we tried to initiate cross-Border development in the mid-Ulster region. In January 1974 I contacted local authorities, county committees of agriculture and the newspapers, pointing out the benefits that should accrue from our membership of the EEC as a result of the Regional Fund. In the mid-seventies we set up monitoring groups of officials and members of local authorities. A steering committee was set up by civil servants from North and South but I felt they had the brake on all the time to ensure we did not make progress. There was a bad period during the H-Block campaign and since then we have not been able to regain the momentum that existed with regard to cross-Border development.

This report pinpoints a number of areas but there are others that must be considered. On 22 June I told the Minister that the Government agencies were not doing what they should and I asked him about establishing a co-ordinator-administrator in that area. He rejected that suggestion. Since that time Mr. Fanning has been appointed from Brussels for that job in the Munster region. The Border region has been the poor relation of the country, it has been under-developed and neglected. The 20 miles or 30 miles on each side of the Border is 20 per cent of the land area of the island and it has a population of 750,000, or about 15 per cent of the entire population of the island. If we do not get an administrator-co-ordinator for the area we will not be able to tackle the problems.

During meetings in the mid-seventies I stated continually that if we wanted to be serious about cross-Border co-operation and development all lines of communication would have to remain open, I said that every road, even those closed since the early seventies, should be opened. In this report they speak about machinery rings and pilot farms. My parish is divided by the Border and last week three roads were closed. When it was quiet last Sunday I visited the area when the large obstructions were removed. It is at the black spots in the region identified by Deputy Wilson and me that the Minister should be looking. They are stifling the economy and something realistic and positive will have to be done.

Minister for Finance (Mr. Dukes)

I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute

"notes the Report of the Economic and Social Committee of the European Communities on a development plan for the Irish border areas and urges the Government to have its recommendations fully considered".

I move the amendment not because I have any objection to what the Deputies opposite seek to bring about by the motion and not because I have any hesitation about taking up any positive projects that can help with the development of the Border region, but for a reason I will come to later.

I read the report with considerable interest although there are some elements in it which we have seen before but they have not been put together in quite the same way. If any work can be done to improve the situation on both sides of the Border to the benefit of the people of that area the Government will be more than ready to play a full part in bringing those measures into effect, in defining them and in seeking the greatest possible degree of co-operation from our neighbours in order to bring projects of that kind to fruition. The problem is to bring them to fruition. It is because I have some reservations about the financial aspects that I have proposed the amendment.

There is a specific reason for tabling the amendment. Members will be aware that the Economic and Social Committee are a consultative body. On certain occasions the Council of Ministers must consult that committee. Since the foundation of the European Communities, a practice has evolved over a period to the point when the committee can make reports on various subjects on their own initiative. That is a relatively recent development and this is one of what is known as the own-initiative reports by the committee.

When putting forward these reports, the committee, operating at the very early stage of the decision-making process in the Community, understandably reflected their ideas. Some of these recommendations relate to matters we all agree should be done, but some relate to matters which I think need deep discussion and examination before we could say that is the way to go about things. It is interesting to note the way in which the suggestions are made and the way that the financial aspects are dealt with. I will quote from the report to illustrate the point I am making. Reference is made to the Newry-Dundalk road and I will quote from page 5 of the report:

At a rate of 1.5 million ECU per mile, the new Newry-Dundalk road would cost approximately 20 million. The European Investment Bank and the NCI could support this scheme by providing loans coupled with interest rebates. The European Regional Development Fund could also provide grants of up to 30 per cent from either quota or non-quota funds. Aid may also be available under the multiannual transport infrastructure programme proposed by the European Commission.

That has a series of conditional statements. The report identifies desirable projects and possible sources of financing and in this case seems to suggest — I think wrongly — that all of these different sources of finance could be accumulated in the financing of the project. In relation to the Erne Development Scheme the report states:

The EAGGF must provide substantial funding for all these projects. The European Regional Development Fund should also play its part. This would preferably entail a special quota-free programme (inland waterway projects to assist the tourist industry).

There, again, is a condition, funding being suggested from certain areas without the mechanism necessary being properly in place. The same is true in relation to the Industrial Triangle of the Western Zone: The European Fund could fund the agency's activities under a special quota-free programme. In the section in relation to the Industrial Triangle as a whole the report concludes with the sentence: "Of course the entire package has still to be costed since all factors are not available at the moment".

Similiar remarks apply to other suggestions in the report. On page 9, for example, dealing with development schemes generally, the reports states that a special instrument or a new line in the EEC budget could be helpful in tackling such wide and varied areas of action. That indicates that the whole plan or series of measures is at a very early stage of development in regard to finance and it is fair to say that the total on page 10 of the report setting out a sum of around £120 million is somewhat hypothetical and open to question because the report recognises that not all of the factors are known or have been taken into account.

Mr. Wilson

Is the Minister saying it is too low or too high?

Mr. Dukes

I would say the figure is too low, that the cost of carrying out all of these measures would be somewhat more. This has a lot to do with the politics of the Community as it is now, something that could have a particular bearing and pose a particular requirement for North-South co-operation. Deputies know that we are in the middle of very difficult negotiations on the overall financing of the EEC, that one of the difficulties is the British budgetary situation, the net contribution which the UK are making and the changes necessary to reduce it. Deputies also know that in terms of the overall financing — and Deputy Wilson may mutter into his fingers but it is a very real problem which has been building up for a number of years——

Mr. Wilson

The Minister can be assured that I know about the problem. She was not entitled to the paybacks if she followed the rules she accepted.

Mr. Dukes

The Deputy and I would agree on that, but we still have to persuade many other people to see it our way. One of the matters in contention is how much funding in total the Community will have at their disposal in future years. We already have budgetary difficulties this year. We want to make sure that the resources available to the Community are on a scale adequate to allow the Community to make a real contribution in areas like this, and in other areas, to build and change the face of those areas of the Community.

There is a very strong body of opinion, with which I agree, that until the overall Community budget goes above a certain critical level, it will have very little effect on the distribution of activities between the member states. That is part of our objective. We want to ensure that the Community have the funds. Part of the proposals for using what we hope will be an expanded level of funding in the European Community, and a proposal which has been put forward, is that we should have a 20 per cent increase per annum over five years in the amount of money available to the European Regional Development Fund. That is a proposal which I have supported very vigorously and I will continue to support it in the framework of the overall action we are taking in relation to the Community budget.

It is essential that we get agreement on that proposal in order to make room for the kind of funding being talked about here, in addition to the funding we already get from the Regional Development Fund. It is a very central point in our discussions on this report. I think all Deputies opposite would agree with me when I say the funding for a programme of this kind which we would like to see coming from Community sources should be additional to the funding we now receive.

We are now in receipt of our full quota of assistance from the European Regional Development Fund. If we want to put forward more projects in order to gain more assistance in volume terms from the fund, either our share of the fund has to be increased or the total fund itself has to be increased. It is more likely that the total fund would have to be increased. Those are considerations we must bear in mind in looking at this report. I do not think Deputies opposite want to divert funds from uses to which they are now being put in these areas. We would rather add to the total than redistribute in that way.

Mr. Wilson

A clever administrative ploy.

Mr. Dukes

It is not a clever ploy because, whatever the Deputy might think——

Mr. Wilson

It works in every Department.

Mr. Dukes

——and whatever the Deputy might say for the purpose of scoring a little political point, I firmly believe the European Community should expand the assistance they give to regions like this——

Mr. Wilson

We are in agreement.

Mr. Dukes

——and should expand the total amount of funding.

Mr. Wilson

The Departments say: "We cannot give you that because we would have to take it from something else". The longer you live the more you learn.

Mr. Dukes

The Deputy may feel a little bored and, if he wants to amuse himself with hair splitting of that kind, that is his privilege. I want to put it on record, so that we can make it clear to the Economic and Social Committee and to our partners in the European Community, that that is the way we want this matter to be handled.

A number of the projects and a number of the areas identified in this report have already been and are the subject of action, in some cases with the assistance of European funding. In the short time available to me I should like to outline a few of them. I refer first to the Newry-Dundalk road. In that case some time ago the Irish and UK Governments agreed to the appointment of the Transport and Road Research Laboratory of Great Britain and An Foras Forbartha here to carry out a joint study in order to resolve differences in approach in the physical construction of that road. That study was approved for aid from the Regional Fund in November 1982. I am happy to say the study was completed recently. I have not yet seen it. It has been referred to a joint steering committee where we can assess the results and decide, in the light of the study, what is the best method to approach that project. The point is, we have already had some European assistance in relation to that study and work is going on and progressing.

The drainage of the Ulster Blackwater is another project mentioned in this report. A programme for drainage in that river catchment area was approved by the EEC Commission in March of last year. The total cost of the scheme is just over £30 million sterling, of which roughly £17 million will be borne by the authorities here. The European Agricultural Guidance and Guarantee Fund will be participating in the funding of that project. That is another one of these projects on which progress can already be seen. In relation to the Ballymore-Ballyconnell canal mentioned by Deputy Wilson, the Office of Public Works are currently engaged in a feasibility study on the restoration of that canal for navigation.

Mr. Wilson

How long is the study going on?

Mr. Dukes

The information we have obtained so far is now being examined and analysed. It is expected that all the outstanding survey work will be completed and a preliminary design put in hand so that we can have a full report on the feasibility of the restoration with an estimate of the cost ready in 1986.

In relation to roads generally in the Border counties, the total grant provisions for work on national roads in those areas in 1983 was £12½ million. Some of the projects are the Letterkenny to Derry route at Manorcunningham and Newtowncunningham and the N2 in County Monaghan at Castleshane and Donaghmoyne. An amount of work is already going on in infrastructure in the area which is relevant to the kind of programme suggested in this report.

Mr. J. Leonard

That is not additional.

Mr. Dukes

I am not suggesting they are additional. Already we have made progress in a number of areas which were picked out in this report as being ones which need attention. We could say the same in relation to the development of the sanitary services in the areas and the provision of cluster units and advance factories.

Reference is made in the report to the need for improved customs clearance facilities and the simplification of customs formalities particularly in the Dundalk-Newry area. I am happy to say the Revenue Commissioners are now planning a customs complex at Carrickarnon which will fulfil the functions at present carried out at the frontier post in Carrickarnon and the customs station in Dundalk. We will need some further study of the requirements in relation to the road projects I mentioned earlier.

Perhaps at a later date we could look in more detail at the final point I wish to make. I want to refer briefly to the industrial zone proposals set out in the report. The concept is an interesting one, but it would need more development than the authors of this report have been able to give it. There are different levels of incentives on the two sides of the Border. Unfortunately, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that there would be currency movements between the two sides of the Border. Those seem to be two reasons why it might not be as easy as suggested in this report to have one authority straddling the Border and responsible for industrial development.

Mr. Wilson

Use ECUs.

Mr. Dukes

If we were at the point where we could use ECUs nobody would be happier than I. Nothing makes my heart softer than the prospect that we might eventually get to that point.

I commend the Economic and Social Committee on having put together a report in the way they have. I emphasise the Government's commitment to having these recommendations properly examined. Above all, I emphasise our commitment to the kind of action required at European levels in order to make the proper amount of financing available for projects of this kind.

Mr. McGahon

I welcome the publication of this report, coming as I do from the deprived town of Dundalk which is probably at its lowest ebb for 25 years. I was heartened by the Minister's statement that he regards the ungrading of the Dundalk-Newry road as a priority. Dundalk has been devastated economically in recent years, not due to the fault of this Government but due to a combination of circumstances. In the seventies Fianna Fáil had three Deputies for the area and made no significant progress in any department.

Mr. Wilson

Nonsense.

Mr. McGahon

The area is at a low ebb and this report identifies the Border region as the most deprived area in western Europe. Some years ago the west of Ireland was a deprived area but the scene has shifted. There is real concern for the entire region. While there is no doubt that the Ulster problems are the main factor, successive Governments have failed to take compensatory measures. It must be said that Fianna Fáil were in Government during more recent years. Compensatory measures must now be taken and there must be increased capital spending in Border areas. The Minister is particularly interested in this region and I thank him for the interest he has displayed during the past year. Around the time of the previous budget I brought to his attention the enterprise zones which were created in Belfast in the early seventies and he came back to me on several occasions and made extensive inquiries into the practicalities or otherwise of such a project.

The major project in the Dundalk area must be the upgrading of the main road. Traffic in the area has been strangled for the past 15 years. Only last Saturday there was a major protest by the residents of the Newry road during which they blocked traffic. They did so as a protest against the endless wait to relocate the customs complex at the Border. Louth County Council have bought land at Carrickarnon and they have been waiting for the publication of the consultant's report which, as the Minister said, has now been finalised. I would exhort the Minister to make the findings public as soon as possible in order to allay concern in the Dundalk region.

I would bring to the Minister's attention the need for more money to make the Lough Muckno project feasible within the next five years. Dundalk cannot attract water-intensive industries and water is an absolute priority.

Another priority is the matter of forestry. North County Louth is particularly suitable for increased forestry plantation. The report recommends the planting of sitka spruce and identifies the wet, mild climate as being particularly suitable for this form of development. The entire country is crying out for afforestation and it could give gainful employment to thousands of young people. I would encourage the Government to devise some type of scheme which would involve participation by the State and by the landowner over a period of years. The potential benefits are enormous. It would give employment to thousands of young people and provide a return which would in many cases be above the level of agricultural output. I urge the Minister to encourage the Cabinet to produce a scheme for forestry, particularly in north County Louth.

I now refer to the blocking of Border roads. Much has been made of this tonight and in recent days by Fianna Fáil Deputies. As a Border Deputy I share their concern but I suggest that they have been engaged in gamesmanship and green flag waving. The blocking and spiking of Border roads is not a new phenomenon which has occurred only in the past few weeks.

Mr. J. Leonard

It is wrong to say it is gamesmanship. I resent that.

Mr. McGahon

The blocking of Border roads has been a common occurrence for the past ten or 12 years. We are having far more success in our representations to the British Government than Fianna Fáil Governments experienced. It is irresponsible yet again to wave the green flag.

Mr. J. Leonard

There was no waving of the green flag.

Mr. McGahon

Of course, there was. Deputy Leonard has been very prominent in his demands for cross-Border co-operation and I applaud him for it but I do not admire the suggestion made tonight and last week that the Government have been remiss in making representations to the British Government over the blocking of these roads. In the seventies there were as many as 50 or 60 roads blocked at one time when Fianna Fáil were in power. That is undeniable.

I thank the Minister for his interest in the Border areas. The real answer to our problem is the harmonisation of VAT rates in this country and in the Six Counties. The reason we cannot do this is that we are now paying the price for the profligate policies of the 1977 manifesto.

Mr. Wilson

Rubbish.

Mr. McGahon

The quicker the better we rid ourselves of that albatross.

Mr. Kirk

I am glad of the opportunity to speak on this motion. Quite a few of the Deputies who have spoken have been very much involved in various committees who have been addressing themselves to the question of cross-Border co-operation. This report by the Economic and Social Committee of the European Communities is the manifestation of their efforts over many years. All the Deputies involved with these committees have put a tremendous amount of work into them. It is unfortunate that the committees to date have not made the progress on the ground we would like to see them making. The concept of close Border co-operation has been gradually developed by the various committees which are straddling the Border. They have identified the various joint projects which can be undertaken which will be of mutual benefit to both sides of the unfortunate divide cutting across the country for far too long.

I have been involved with the committee on the east-Border region. This committee, which has been meeting regularly for quite a number of years, has identified many suitable projects. Many of them are in the report which was released within the last ten days. At the top of the list there is the question of the motorway from Dublin to Belfast. The Minister for Finance spent some time tonight speaking on this subject. While the benefit to our side and to the northern side of the Border is obvious to everybody who wishes to see it, the important aspect is the provision of the necessary finance to get on with the work on the development of this road. In and around Dundalk we have phases 1, 2 and 3 of the inner by-pass. If the necessary money is provided, the Dundalk Urban Council can push ahead with the development of the Dundalk by-pass.

Some of the speakers referred to the great difficulty which exists along the motorway because of the siting of the customs clearance station just north of Dundalk on the Newry road. Last weekend there was a protest by the residents who are dissatisfied with the progress on the removal of the customs clearance station from there to Carrickarnon. The site for the new customs station was acquired some years ago but unfortunately the progress on it is very slow. People in that area, because of the volume of traffic on the route from Belfast to Dublin, have had their rights as citizens of the State in that area very much infringed on by the number of lorries parking along that roadway.

I ask the Minister for Finance and the Minister of State in charge of the Office of Public Works to use their good offices to ensure that the new customs complex at Carrickarnon will proceed as quickly as possible. The fact that the land has been acquired and the report has recognised that the work on the customs clearance station there can proceed without a firm decision on where the motorways will meet at the Border is a recognition that the work on the customs complex can proceed immediately. I appeal to the Minister for Finance and the Minister of State in charge of the Office of Public Works to address themselves to the very serious problem which exists north of Dundalk on the Newry road.

Another matter with regard to the development of the Border regions which has not been touched on in the report is the supply of natural gas to Belfast. I believe the development of the natural pipeline to Belfast will open up the prospect of the development of a much enlarged horticultural industry in the country. Along the east coast from Dublin into the Cooley peninsula there is ideal terrain for the development of the glasshouse industry in general. The industry has been on the decline in recent years because of the increased cost of heating and is in serious danger of going to the wall.

The provision of spurs from the natural gas line going to Belfast could reawaken interest and could herald the creation of possibly thousands of jobs in the industry along the east coast. The Ministers with responsibility in this area should look into this immediately. It could be very relevant in relation to whether the route of the natural gas pipeline has been decided. The question of having spurs from that gas pipeline and making them available to small, medium and large horticulturalists along the coast with its natural terrain and adjacent to the sea could mean great expansion in the horticultural industry. It is very important that the people involved know exactly what will be bought in relation to it so that they can plan their future strategy. Natural gas going to Belfast for the towns of Drogheda, Dundalk, Ardee and other towns along the Border could herald a new beginning as far as industrial development is concerned.

Some of the other speakers referred to the serious economic difficulties in Dundalk at the moment. Those difficulties can be blamed to a large extent on the taxation measures pursued by the Minister for Finance. The level of VAT and excise duties has meant there has been a considerable leakage of money northwards because of the price differential between North and South. The Minister for Finance expressed concern about this. If he wanted to show real concern about this he should introduce some compensatory mechanism which will ensure that the economy in the constituency of Louth and in the other constituencies along the Border will not wither and die. If the Minister persists with the taxation measures which have been in operation for the last 12 months many people in industry and in commercial life generally will be in very serious trouble. They are already in serious trouble but the risk of those industries and businesses going to the wall is very real.

Reference was made in the report to the research going on regarding willow growing, the production of biomass and the fast growing wood crops which could do a lot for our energy needs. The Border areas are natural terrain for forestry and afforestation generally. I sincerely hope that research work going on will yield possibilities for an area where the small holding and the small farm is predominant. Many of those small farms have not been economically viable for many years. The inhabitants of those areas have to depend on part-time employment outside agriculture. I believe the research into and the production on different lands of these fast growing wood crops would do much for not alone the economy of the area but the country generally.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy, you have five minutes.

Mr. Kirk

The water supply scheme for the town of Dundalk is another cross-Border project which must go ahead immediately. Dundalk's prospects of getting a water-dependent industry have been blighted by the serious deficiency in the water supply system, which has been in operation in the town for many years. There is a possibility of getting water via the plain from the Muckno-Lough Ross catchment. If this scheme is to progress it is important that the money be provided for the work immediately. It could mean much to the industrial development of Dundalk in the immediate future. Because of the educational and industrial facilities which exist in Dundalk people have tended to gravitate there from the midlands and that has meant considerable growth in the population and many young families in the area will be looking for employment opportunities in the future. Therefore it is important that the industrial development of the region is given proper priority.

Another matter I refer to in the context of cross-Border development is tourism. The Newry and Mourne Council in conjunction with Louth County Council have produced a very useful holiday guide to the area from the Mournes to the Boyne. I hope that that is only a beginning. The area has often been described as the Killarney of the North. Unfortunately, because sufficient emphasis has not been put on its beauty and attraction, tourism there has suffered. The opportunity to promote tourism on a joint basis is real. Not much money will be involved in the promotion. It is a question of collective togetherness of effort in projecting the area properly. The fund referred to earlier is very important from the tourism point of view. Much valuable work has been done on tourist-related projects in County Louth under the ERDF non-quota fund and I hope that when this scheme ends in 1986 it will be renewed and perhaps expanded to bring in futher areas of expenditure in this region.

We should examine the possibility of providing a fund for the provision of recreational facilities. I had a question down in this Chamber a week or ten days ago and the Minister for Finance was not very forthcoming on the issue, but the matter could be pursued. In an area that has been recognised as deprived because of its location, it is inevitable that the necessary wherewithal is not there to provide proper recreational facilities. I asked the Minister for Finance if when the scheme is being renewed he will consider this area and endeavour to bring it under the umbrella of existing agencies.

I cannot let the occasion pass without making reference to two villages in the Cooley peninsula. Because of the levels of taxation that apply Omeath and Carlingford, two of the finest seaside villages in the country, are dead at the moment. As I said in relation to Dundalk and other towns, I appeal to the Minister to consider these places and perhaps decide to pay a visit to the area to see for himself at first hand the difficulties that exist for the people there.

Mr. P. Gallagher

Like all the other Deputies, I welcome this report in principle, but I am disappointed at what I heard from the Minister for Finance, who at the end of the day will decide whether the aspects of this report with which we agree can go ahead. He has not committed himself here tonight to agreeing in principle to make the moneys available together with the EEC and the UK Government to ensure that the aspects with which we all agree would at least work. The Minister has suggested that this is only a report, that decision will be premature, that it warrants deeper discussion and it contains only recommendations. Many aspects of this report we would all agree with, and the Minister and the Government should do what we have asked them to do: take all the steps necessary to ensure the early and successful implementation of this report. If the Minister cannot agree with this in its entirety surely he can agree with the aspects of it which warrant immediate attention.

Much has been said here tonight about Border roads and the difficulties which the closure of these Border roads has created, in particular a few days ago when three roads in Fermanagh were closed down without any prior consultation with this Government, we were told. If the Government were to come clean and tell us that there was consultation then we would understand that there is co-operation between the two Governments. The British Government tell us that there was discussion regarding these roads and our Minister for Foreign Affairs tells us that there was not. The British Government try to deceive us then by telling us what a Garda superintendent along the Border told them. If the British Government think that they are going to deal with a garda along the Border and that they and he are to decide what roads should be closed down, then we should think more seriously of the relationships which we are supposed to have, the relationship which the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Mr. Prior had when they were in Brussels and the relationships which the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Minister for Justice had when they were in Dublin. As was pointed out earlier tonight, obviously they did not discuss the serious problem borne out in this report, that of road closures.

I doubt if any other Border Deputy or any Deputy in this House would believe that this report or any other report that has come in here over the years since we joined the EEC will be successful until that Border is abolished. We must talk seriously about this. Then and not until then will we have a successful area along the so-called Border.

Mr. Harte

You blow that trumpet often enough.

Mr. P. Gallagher

The obvious step to be taken is to ensure that all these roads along the Border which are closed must be reopened and our Government must make the strongest possible representations in spite of the possibility of us breaking off some relationships with the British Government. We cannot allow them to close off our roads and divide families along the Border in Fermanagh, Donegal and other border counties. It was stated at the outset that this report covers 20-30 miles on both sides of the frontier. I want to put on the record of this House that all of County Donegal is included in this, but unfortunately all of the west coast and half of county Donegal are not included for any development, industrial or otherwise.

Debate adjourned.