asked the Minister for Agriculture if new criteria have been agreed on to allow extra areas of the 12 western counties into the severely handicapped areas.
15.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Disadvantaged and Severely Handicapped Areas.
14.
asked the Minister for Agriculture the reasons for the delay in allocating the remaining parts of the 12 western counties into the severely handicapped area; the date on which the last submission was made to Brussels on this matter; the areas recommended; the date on which they will be accepted; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
16.
asked the Minister for Agriculture the reason for the delay in having additional lands in disadvantaged areas designated as severely handicapped.
17.
asked the Minister for Agriculture the progress that has been made in having disadvantaged areas, details of which have been submitted to his Department included under the disadvantaged areas scheme; when it is expected that approval will be issued by the EEC to have these areas included; if it is his intention to have additional submissions accepted by his Department from areas throughout the country; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 to 17, inclusive, together. I would refer the Deputies to the answer given to questions on the disadvantaged areas on 14 December 1983. The current review has involved an examination of the local situation on a townland rather than on a district electoral division basis, and has covered in excess of 10,000 townlands. A very full opportunity has already been given to local bodies and individuals to make submissions for changes and I doubt whether any further submissions at this late stage of the review would serve any useful purpose. I am not, however, able to indicate at this stage how soon the matter will be finalised by the Government and eventually by the EEC authorities.
Is it a fact, as has been circulating in Kerry through Fine Gael, that many areas outside the severely handicapped areas will be included?
The matter is being finalised at the moment. I am not receiving any further submissions. The extent of the scheme is known only to me, to my junior Ministers and Departmental officials. It will be going to the Government for approval shortly.
It is being said in Kerry that certain parts of the country have been brought into the severely handicapped areas. Apparently the review has been released.
There has not been any such release.
Will the Minister tell the House when the review will be issued?
I have not got the date.
Could the Minister make a guess — 12 months, 18 months?
I would not care to make a guess. I do not have even an approximate idea.
Would I be right in saying 18 months?
It would be approximately that time.
Can the Minister indicate whether the proposed areas will all be townlands.
I said the review involved an examination on a townland rather than a district electoral division basis.
When was the last time traditional areas were included in the severely handicapped areas? Is it true that other countries in the EEC have completed their reviews and that they are known already?
Reviews are carried out periodically. In the past six months three countries have issued schemes — Italy, Holland and Britain.
And Northern Ireland.
Britain and Northern Ireland.
So we are behind Northern Ireland?
The schemes of those other countries were well advanced.
(Limerick West): The Minister has said the scheme will be made known shortly. Can he tell us when the new areas are likely to be submitted to the Commission in Brussels?
That depends on a decision by the Government on the review.
All members states are sending in submissions. Some states have already made their submissions but our review has not been cleared by the Government. Is the Minister aware that in our case it will be difficult to get extensions because we are not using the scheme to the maximum?
I am fully aware of the situation. I have told Deputies that the current review was carried out based on townlands, and there are 10,000 townlands to be considered. Previously the review was based on district electoral divisions which were far less clumsy and involved far less work. I have also said that only three of the ten member states have submitted revised schemes and that seven have not. We hope to have this scheme ready in the present year.
Can the Minister give an indication of whether he will include all existing areas in the arrangement?
I would hope that the total acreage involved will be much greater.
Is the Minister sorry he did not make an application in advance of the other countries? Will he consider including large areas of Cavan and Monaghan as being severely handicapped?
We have the same story in almost every county in Ireland, including my own.
This is very important. The Minister has taken four questions together and, based on what he has told us, it is now too late to make submissions to local bodies. From a submission by Deputy Connaughton last autumn and statements he has been making in the west, it seems that a submission was to be made to Brussels last autumn and that the review would be completed by last spring. When can we positively expect the review?
The Deputy must have misunderstood the statements of the Minister of State. The Government have not even considered the scheme.
In view of the fact that a number of schemes of assistance for farmers generally have been curtailed or abolished and in view of the threat of the super-levy, would the Minister not consider having the entire country declared a disadvantaged area?
This is a matter for the Government.
It is a matter for the Minister for Agriculture first.
I do not think the country as a whole would stand a chance. I got no answer.
That is not the Chair's fault.
I am trying to get the maximum information. Can the Minister tell the House whether the submission has been made to Brussels?
I said it had not been made.
Why then did the Minister of State tell us last autumn that the submission would be made shortly? It is not made, submissions are closed and the Minister's colleague, the Minister of State, said last autumn that it was being made.
Maybe the Deputy mistook what the Minister of State said, but there has been no submission.
(Interruptions.)
Ceist 18.
18.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will accept additional submissions in respect of inclusions in the disadvantaged areas scheme in County Kilkenny; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
19.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will make the necessary arrangements to include the entire constituency of South Kerry as a severely handicapped area, within the disadvantaged areas scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
20.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will consider including the whole of Cork North-West in the disadvantaged areas scheme.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 18 to 20, inclusive, together. The position in the areas mentioned in the questions has been examined in the course of the current review of the boundaries of the disadvantaged areas. This review is a prelude to consideration by the Government, and later by the EEC authorities, of the case for modification of the boundaries in this country.
Is the Minister aware that in the case of South Kerry a large area of very bad land has been left out and that this district is surrounded by far better land which was included in 1975 or 1976, and that no satisfactory explanation was ever given as to why this area was excluded and the better land which surrounds it included? Further, is he aware of a review which was initiated about two or three years ago as a result of visits by officials of his Department to South Kerry and can he say what the present position is regarding that review? Also, is he aware of the case that can be made to have the entire constituency included, having regard to what I have said?
I could not possible answer such a detailed question. Who knows, Deputy O'Leary's area might be lucky on this occasion. The question is far too detailed.
Is the Minister telling this House that he has not sufficient information in his brief to answer my supplementaries to Question No. 19, which are reasonable?
Certainly I have not. I would need a volume in front of me. If I had the information in front of me, obviously I could not divulge it to the Deputy.
This is most unsatisfactory. I have Question No. 19 on the Order Paper to the Minister and he admits now that he has not sufficient information in his brief to enable him to reply to a few simple supplementary questions.
This information is highly confidential.
Will the Minister say in respect of South Kerry whether the review is taking place on the basis of townlands, district electoral divisions, or the entire constituency?
For the third time, I tell the House I am basing it on the townland system.
Does the Minister know how many acres the EEC would allow us to have as severely handicapped areas?
That does not arise on the questions under reply.
I have not got that information.
(Limerick West): Could the Minister indicate to the House the criteria being used to decide whether the areas should be included in the disadvantaged as severely handicapped areas? Has he that information?
The three questions here are all very specific relating to areas in three different counties. I have not——
(Limerick West): The Minister has not got that information?
I have it, but not in this brief.
(Limerick West): Is the Minister prepared to indicate to the House the criteria used in deciding——
I have not been asked that question. It is not on the Order Paper.
The three questions on the Order Paper refer to three specific counties.
In view of what the Minister said, that the submission has not been made to the EEC, will he accept additional submissions?
No, I said the time for submissions is over.
Let me then ask the Minister to clarify the position in relation to his Minister of State who recently visited Kilkenny and indicated there that he was prepared to accept additional submissions.
Maybe at that time he was quite right in saying so. I am saying today the submissions have closed.
In view of the reply given by the Minister and what was said by his Minister of State in Kilkenny, it is obvious that people are being misled in this scheme and that a window-dressing job is being done.
Not at all. The question which was raised in Kilkenny with the Minister of State could well have been included since then.
(Limerick West): Will the Minister indicate to the House the date on which he decided to exclude any further submissions? Is it today, yesterday?
It was in recent days.
(Limerick West): Can he say exactly which date?
If I am asked such questions——
(Interruptions)
(Limerick West): Two Deputies from this side have indicated that the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture has stated that further submissions for inclusion in the disadvantaged areas can be made. The Minister here has said that no further submissions can be accepted. I cannot reconcile those two decisions.
That is comment.
(Limerick West): I want the Minister to indicate when it was decided to exclude further submissions. Was it yesterday, today, last week?
I said it was in the last few days. Incidentally, only one Deputy, Deputy Aylward, mentioned that matter.
Would the Minister when going to Brussels ask his officials to add a rider to the recommendation to pay particular attention to the Border areas in view of the severe depression in those areas, for obvious rerasons?
That is always of particular consideration.
I want to ask a question on the whole severely handicapped area.
Not on the whole area. On the last three questions perhaps.
Would the Minister agree that the areas we are trying to include in this are of prime importance to the small farmers in those areas? Due to the bad quality of the land and the topography of the area it is vital that we get the maximum areas included in the submission to Brussels. In view of this serious situation and that prevailing throughout Europe, would the Minister consider an extension for further submissions to, say, 1 May? He has stated clearly in the House that a detailed submission has not been made to Brussels already by this Government.
The questions relate to three specific parts of the country.