Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 4 Apr 1984

Vol. 349 No. 7

Adjournment Debate. - Knocklyon (Dublin) New Community School.

Mr. S. Brennan

On 10 February 1984 the greatest turnabout by the Department of Education in many years was perpetrated on the people of Knocklyon and Ballyboden. There was anger and frustration at the news given to the people of Knocklyon on 10 February that the community school would not now be in existence until 1988. It came as a shock and a tremendous surprise to the people of that area. There is a long litany going back to 1977 of pledges from Ministers for Education. Successive Ministers have said that Knocklyon would have this community school and then, out of the blue, comes this notice that it is being put off until 1988. It is not good enough.

I am disappointed that the Minister for Education has not come into the House to answer this. That is no disrespect to the Minister of State, but the Minister should be here to deal with this important issue. Thousands of people are depending on this school and it is not good enough that the Minister for Education herself has not come in to answer this. It is the greatest turnabout perpetrated on the people in any area in many a long year. I do not want to take up all the time. My colleague, Deputy Andrews and, I am sure, Deputies from the other side of the House want to get in, and we have got only a few minutes.

I will not go through all the details. In 1981 Deputy Boland said he would have the school opened in 1983 if he had a site. A couple of weeks later he had a site and there was still no sign of a schools opening. On the contrary, it was postponed, and now we are told it will not be open till 1988. Will this go into the 1985 Estimates? Clearly it is not in the 1984 Estimates. Will the Minister change the 1984 Estimates and see that it is put in there? What are we to say to the people of Knocklyon and Ballyboden and that area? Where are they to send their families to school in the coming years while they are waiting for this school?

What is the Minister's answer to that question? Does he know this is one of the fastest growing areas in Dublin with little or no public services, bad lighting and poor roads? It has had a population explosion. The Department of Education have cheek to say to this huge population in a cavalier letter that the school will not open in 1986 after all, and that it will be 1988 before it opens. That is not good enough. The people of Knocklyon are not accepting that. As the public representatives for that area we are not accepting it either.

I am trying to convey to the Minister the anger and frustration felt by the people of Knocklyon and by their public representatives. Can the people of Ireland be blamed if they are cynical about politicians? Year after year a specific promise was given about the opening of the school and then lo and behold, the Estimates are revised and there is no school. What does the word of the Department of Education mean? What does the word of a politician mean if a decision can be changed by the stroke of a ministerial pen?

I am trying to convey to the Minister the anger felt by these people. There is a litany of broken promises in the Department of Education in regard to this school. We are not taking no for an answer. We have reached a crisis. I am asking the Minister to tell us that he will put this into the 1985 Estimate, if not the 1984 Estimate, and that he will commit his Government here this evening to a firm opening date for this school for which a site has been bought for many years. Have the Government and the Department got the guts to give all politicians the credibility which they deserve by living up to the promise they made to the people of Knocklyon? Give us our community school.

An Ceann Comhairle

I should like to remind people in the Gallery that, while they are very welcome, in accordance with the rules applause from the Gallery is not permitted or, indeed, the contrary.

Mr. Wilson

Intelligent anticipation, a Cheann Comhairle.

Mr. N. Andrews

A Cheann Comhairle, I am sure you will forgive the people of Knocklyon for expressing some emotion in view of the seriousness of the situation which has arisen. This school has been promised by successive Ministers, and some were Fianna Fáil Ministers. Deputy Brennan referred to the Department of Education. The officials of the Department are merely the servants of the Minister. I lay the blame directly on the Minister's doorstep. The case has been made by the community for a community school as an extension of the very successful primary school development there, and the very successful development of the community as a whole.

Even if the school is to be approved in 1988, judging by the Minister's attitude it is very unlikely that if she is in office she will approve of it at that time. Judging by the correspondence read at a meeting in Knocklyon yesterday it appears to me that the Minister has no intention whatsoever of opening the school in Knocklyon or Ballyboden. All these things have been put aside. This is regrettable.

The roads in the area are rural roads and they are being used by very heavy traffic. There is no possibility of young children getting up on a bicycle and travelling on dark winter mornings to the neighbouring schools which the Department suggest are available. It has also been suggested by the Department that the fee-paying schools in the catchment area, as they call it, might provide extra places. Some years ago I recall dealing with a similar situation in the Balally school in Dundrum. I am glad to say the parish priest in Knocklyon is the same man——

An Ceann Comhairle

I must now call on the Minister to reply.

Mr. N. Andrews

The parish priest who is now helping in the campaign in Knocklyon is the same man who succeeded in getting the Minister of that day to change his mind and build the school in Balally. We have the support of the community. I deeply regret that we cannot call a vote on this issue tonight and call the bluff of the Government Deputies who are telling the people they will fight for them in their parties and do this and that. Let them fight in their parties and let them come in here and vote with their feet for the school in Knocklyon. The community are angry. Deputies on this side of the House will not stand back from this issue. We want a school in Knocklyon and we will get it.

Minister of State at the Department of Education (Mr. Creed)

I want to give a few minutes of my time to Deputy Shatter.

Mr. N. Andrews

I hope we will get a satisfactory reply.

Mr. Shatter

I regret that Deputy Andrews did not give me an opportunity to get in within the time allocated originally, because it is only fair to put it on record that Deputy Brennan, Deputy Andrews and I sought to raise this matter on the Adjournment. I will be brief. I want to make a number of points. I share the disappointment expressed by Deputies opposite at the postponement of the building of the school. I share the anger and distress clearly expressed last night by the vast majority of the parents who live in Knocklyon.

An Ceann Comhairle

There are only three minutes left. The debate will have to conclude at 9 o'clock.

Mr. Shatter

There are unprecedented numbers of people in the gallery here this evening. I have never seen such numbers in the House for an Adjournment Debate. I want to make two brief points.

An Ceann Comhairle

I will have to close the debate at 9 o'clock.

Mr. Shatter

Deputy Andrews has already attempted to muzzle me. I would appreciate it if you would allow me to get a word in. I ask the Minister and her Department to reconsider the decision made and to reinstate September 1986 as the opening date for the school. I ask the Minister and the Department to reiterate the commitment previously given to provide the school in September 1986.

Mr. Creed

I want to apologise for the absence of the Minister. I am sure Deputies who made their case here tonight will be making representations to the Minister. I should like to be given a few minutes to put the case before the House and to reply to some of the points made.

I have listened carefully to the contributions by the speakers to this debate. I am aware, of course, of what has happened in recent years and of the request of the parents that the new community school at Knocklyon be opened as early as possible and not later than September 1985. I am also aware, and I want to make the point clearly, that during the former Government's tenure of office, there was no specific commitment as to when building of the new school would be commenced or what year it would be opened.

Mr. Wilson

That is not so, and it is on the records of this House. I will not sit here and allow lies to be told. I am on record about that school.

Mr. Creed

In reply to a Dáil question on 15 July 1982 by Deputy Shatter the then Minister for Education stated:

A decision will be taken shortly on the opening date and pupil capacity of the new community school at Scholarstown Road which will cater for pupils from Knocklyon. The architectural planning will then be initiated. It is not possible to say at this early stage of planning when building will commence.

At that stage, the then Minister appeared to have a problem in being specific, presumably because of the growing availability of post-primary places in the general area.

Mr. Wilson

My promise is on the record of the House and I delivered on that promise.

An Ceann Comhairle

Order.

Mr. Creed

In drawing attention to this, I do so not to score a debating point but to emphasise that the question of when this new school would be provided has been under constant review for the past few years in the light of the declining enrolments in the area generally. It has been so reviewed some time ago and the conclusion was that it would not be needed before 1988. In this, Knocklyon is not the only developing area where because of the existence of schools in neighbouring areas and in the light of the most recent enrolments the provision of a post-primary school was deferred.

The output of the primary schools in Knocklyon and Ballyboden is expected to increase from 106 to 161 between 1984 and 1987. The two secondary schools in Ballyroan, Coláiste Eanna CBS and Sancta Maria Convent, and Firhouse Community College, will have a combined intake capacity of around 500 pupils per year and will have a substantial number of surplus intake places each year over the next three or four years. In addition, Templeogue College is expected to have places each year which would be available to pupils leaving primary school in Knocklyon. This would be apart from places which undeniably will also be available in well established schools slightly further away at Willington, De La Salle, Churchtown and others.

The case of Knocklyon is an excellent example of what the Minister for Education is trying to achieve in the context of getting the best value from the available financial resources. Everyone in this House is well aware of the financial problems not alone in financing the demand for extended educational services but in financing the overall requirements of the State.

The House will also be aware from the recent debate initiated on the Minister's Programme for Action of the need to determine priorities in education and to make the system more cost-efficient and cost-effective.

Mr. S. Brennan

In other words, no school.

Mr. Creed

Now it seems to me we either "grasp the nettle" in particular cases or we abandon all thoughts of making the system more cost-effective and more cost-effecient.

What the present Minister and her predecessors have guaranteed is that any child from the Knocklyon area seeking post-primary education will be accommodated. That guarantee stands. Every pupil leaving primary school in Knocklyon will get a place in a neighbouring post-primary school.

Mrs. O'Rourke

Where?

Mr. Creed

I mentioned earlier that the issue was under continuous review. In other words, I want to say on my own behalf and on behalf of the Minister for Education that the door to an earlier opening of the school is not closed. The case will be reviewed in September next in the light of the then projected primary school leavers and the enrolments in neighbouring post-primary schools.

I might add for the information of the House that the architectural planning of the new school is progressing. The working drawings were received in my Department this very day. When cleared, the consultants will be authorised to prepare a bill of quantities — the final stage of the planning process preparatory to the invitation of tenders.

It is necessary to have a review of the needs in this area before expending over £2 million of the taxpayers' money. As a result of the Programme for Action in Education every area is being subjected to a review. This is necessary if we are serious about cost efficiency and cost effectiveness.

Mr. S. Brennan

What does a promise from the Department of Education mean?

Mr. Creed

The door is not closed on this school.

Mrs. O'Rourke

The action plan means no action.

The Dáil adjourned at 9.05 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 5 April 1984.