Deputy Noonan (Limerick West) and Deputy H. Byrne have been given permission to put a question on Private Notice to the Minister for Agriculture.
Private Notice Question. - Pig Disease Outbreak.
Mr. Noonan
(Limerick West) and Mr. H. Byrne asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware of the dangers to the national pig herd posed by the outbreak of transmissible gastroenteritis in a large pig unit; if he is aware that TGE is regarded as a class A disease; that it is highly contagious; that it has caused the discontinuation of pig production in areas of some countries; and if he will consider, as a matter of urgency, a slaughter policy, to eliminate the possibility of any spread of the disease to the national herd.
An outbreak of transmissible gastroenteritis (TGE) was confirmed in a pig breeding unit at Newtowngore, County Leitrim on 12 March. The premises were immediately restricted and control imposed on the movement of pigs. It was confirmed earlier today that a second breeding unit located six miles away at Ballyheady, County Cavan, and under the same ownership, is also infected. Similar control measures have been taken at this unit.
Since the first confirmation veterinary officers of my Department have maintained continuous monitoring of the situation and close liaison with the owner of the units. The question of what further measures may be necessary is now being considered particularly in the light of today's confirmation of the presence of the disease in a second unit.
TGE is a highly transmissible virus disease, particularly during the winter months, and causes mortality mainly in very young pigs. While it is a class A disease under the Diseases of Animals Act, 1966, this applies only for the purposes of compulsory notification of outbreaks and regulation of movement of animals. The compulsory slaughter and compensation provisions of the Act do not apply to it.
(Limerick West): Did I hear the Minister of State correctly, that it was today that another outbreak was detected?
Yes, today.
(Limerick West): In view of the farm gate value of pig production in this country which is in the region of £150 million, does the Minister of State consider it necessary to take immediate action to ensure that there will be no further spread of the disease to any other units in this country? It is highly contagious, as the Minister of State is fully aware.
I have stated in my reply that we are at present considering this very closely and we have taken steps to confine this problem to the units involved.
(Limerick West): Would the Minister of State outline to the House what steps have been taken to control it? If steps had been taken to control it, certainly you would not have an outbreak in the second unit as was detected today.
The entire property is confined at the moment in so far as there are no movements of pigs in or out of that unit. We have to treat it as one ownership so basically it is one complex. I may add that we are getting very good co-operation from the people involved. We have some positive indications that there is nothing wrong with the piglets in unit No. 2 except that there was some positive reaction to some tests being undertaken by our Department. We are constantly monitoring on a day-to-day basis the pigs in the three units.
(Limerick West): Is the Minister aware that the advice from the veterinary section of his Department is complete liquidation of those herds? Will he give the necessary directions, therefore, to the owners of these units to liquidate these herds in order to prevent the spread of this disease?
Liquidating or getting rid of the piglets is one approach which certainly would be very useful in this case, but it is not one where we can offer compensation to the owners under the Act.
(Limerick West): Surely because of the importance of the pig industry to this country, if there is a further outbreak of this disease in other herds, adjoining herds, the only way of avoiding a further spread is to liquidate the herd and compensate, as I have just stated. I think that is sensible.
Certainly it is one answer, but at the moment we believe we have contained this problem to this herd which is at present in three separate units. There is no movement into or out of the units. Strictly speaking there should be no problems if everybody adheres to the discipline we are insisting on.
Deputy Byrne's name is on the question.
(Limerick West): If the Minister of State fails to contain the disease and there is another outbreak in another herd, will he then take the necessary action to liquidate the herds and compensate the owners?
As I have already pointed out, the veterinary people in our Department are studying this problem very carefully, as they always do.
(Limerick West): The Minister of State should take advice from his people.
The advice from the people in my Department is that their action is adequate at present and they are monitoring the situation carefully. In the light of what happened today and what may happen tomorrow we may have to take different action.
Would the Minister accept even at this stage that the action taken to date has been a complete failure in that this disease has now spread? Therefore, he should accept the advice of his own people and also the advice of a Ministry vet from Norwich who suggested that if this was the first and only outbreak slaughter was the best remedy. The Minister has been very hesitant in his answers. The pig industry constitutes 10 per cent of total agricultural output. Does the Minister not accept this industry is under serious threat and if this situation is allowed to develop further the whole pig industry may be eliminated? Did the Minister never hear the old adage "a stitch in time saves nine"?
That is not a question.
It is a question.
The Deputy does not appreciate what is a question.
In reply to the Deputy, we appreciate the seriousness of the problem. As I stated in my reply, the compulsory slaughter and compensation provisions of the Act do not apply.
(Limerick West): That is irrelevant.
It is relevant in that we have to justify every pound spent.
(Limerick West): The Minister also has to protect the pig industry.
Of course. In respect of diseases where slaughtering is compulsory, you slaughter and you pay.
(Limerick West): It is a question of priorities.
Is the Minister aware that the total number of pig farmers in 1960 was 112,000 but today there are only about 12,000——
That does not arise. The Deputy is making a speech and he is out of order. This is a Private Notice Question dealing with a specific matter but the Deputy now wants to have a discussion on the pig industry.
I am entitled to ask a question——
I am too familiar with the Deputy's long preambles.
That is the way I speak. It is special to me. I will not be denied the right to speak.
Every man has the right to speak his own language.
I wish to ask the Minister of State a question——
I ask the Deputy to be orderly.
If what the Chair has said about me is a reflection on me I take exception to it.
I would like the Deputy to read Standing Orders.
I have asked a question. I am on my feet and I am entitled to ask a question.
Yes, if it is in order.
It is about pigs. If that is not in order I do not know what is in order.
I will rule on the matter when the Deputy asks a question.
Is the Minister aware that last year our pig exports were worth £100 million——
I am ruling that that kind of question is out of order.
It is relevant.
Of course it is out of order. It is not relevant.
If we do not save the pig industry there will be nothing left.
(Interruptions.)
Order. I ask Deputy Treacy to resume his seat. The Deputy gets to his feet, makes long statements and then asks some question at the end of it all. That is an abuse of Question Time according to any standards and I so rule.
Can Deputy Treacy tell the House how many blades of grass there are in the country?
I take exception to that. That man does not know anything about grass. Will the Minister not agree that an investment of £1 million to terminate this diseased pig herd would be better spent now in order to save an industry that is worth £100 million? That should be done for the sake of the country.
As I have already pointed out, this is the action we have taken to date. Not only are we monitoring the situation on the farms but we are monitoring the neighbouring farms. We will be guided by the advice we get on an hourly basis.
(Limerick West): Will the Minister state——
Three people are on their feet after 15 minutes. I am moving to the next business. Deputies are being most disorderly.
I ask for permission to put a short supplementary question. Will the Minister confirm that this disease was notified to his Department on 24 February 1984 and confirmed on 12 March 1984? Will he tell the House if we have a laboratory to carry out the necessary diagnosis?
We had to go overseas for the necessary diagnosis because we did not have this problem before and we have not the facilities to carry out the necessary diagnosis.
If the Department accepted the facilities they should also have accepted the advice.
(Limerick West): If it is necessary to liquidate and to compensate, will this be done? I ask the Minister to say yes or no to that question.
When that situation arises we will make the correct decision.