asked the Minister for the Environment if he will ensure that the environmental improvement schemes capital contributions to local authorities will be increased this year.
8.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Environmental Improvement Works.
7.
asked the Minister for the Environment the reason the Government have not made money available to Laois County Council under the environmental works scheme; and if, in view of the critical financial situation resulting in unemployment and a serious cut back in services, he will now reverse that decision.
9.
asked the Minister for the Environment if he will make the necessary finance available to Dublin Corporation to enable them to retain in employment the existing workforce of approximately 200 on the environmental works scheme.
10.
asked the Minister for the Environment if he will clarify the position regarding the continuation of the environmental works scheme under Dublin Corporation; the funds that have been provided for the scheme for 1984; if it is intended that the scheme should be continued; and if so, the steps that are being taken to guarantee the funds necessary for it to survive.
11.
asked the Minister for the Environment if, as a matter of urgency, he will clarify the position on the jobs of the workers at Dublin Corporation environmental works section.
I propose to take Question Nos. 7 to 11, inclusive together.
The Government decided when settling the Estimates for 1984 to make a sum of £5.6 million available for environment improvement works. This sum was sufficient to meet commitments on special projects approved in 1983 and to make a special grant of £1.6 million to Dublin Corporation towards the labour costs arising from the retention by the corporation of workers who had been employed on a temporary basis on environmental works.
This grant was designed to facilitate the phased transfer of the workers to other areas of the corporation in assuming full responsibility for the costs involved. It has been made clear to the corporation on a number of occasions during the past year that my Department could not be expected to finance, indefinitely, the retention by one local authority of workers who had been engaged on a temporary basis and that appropriate provision should be made by the corporation to regularise the situation. The special grant of £1.6 million already allocated to the corporation is the full amount available in my Department's Vote for environment works schemes and there are no further funds available to me for allocation to Dublin Corporation. I am concerned that every effort should be made to resolve the problem of the workers' future as smoothly as possible and I have conveyed this concern to the corporation in whose hands responsibility now lies.
The provision made in 1984 for special projects relates only to those projects approved in 1983 under the Environment Works (Special Projects) Scheme. Laois County Council did not submit any projects last year for consideration under this scheme and accordingly I cannot make an allocation to the council this year.
The total amount provided by Government this year in the Labour Vote for the training and employment of young persons amounts to £84 million, compared with an expenditure of about £75.8 million last year and, while the environment improvement scheme has been discontinued, local authorities may participate in other youth employment schemes, details of which were sent to them on 4 April 1984.
I am referring to Question No. 9 which is specifically about the situation in Dublin where approximately 270 men are threatened with unemployment. The Minister stated that the——
The Deputy will have to ask a question.
I am leading into a question, a Cheann Comhairle.
I know, but the Deputy will remember that on the last day he was here my latitude to him brought the Chair into controversy with other Deputies. On that occasion the Deputy was making a short speech instead of asking a question. I must confine him to a question. I am sorry.
I want to ask the Minister, as he has stated that the responsibility lies with the corporation, given that the Government set up the environmental improvement scheme and that over 200 men are now threatened with unemployment in Dublin city alone——
How the Deputy can bring that within the category of a question is beyond me.
If you gave me the time, a Cheann Comhairle, I am sure that I would ask a question in much less time than our inter-change has taken. Does the Minister accept the responsibility, as the scheme was set up by the Government, of ensuring that the men are not put on the dole queue this year? There are more than 250 jobs at stake and this is a very important issue. That is why I was trying to explain the matter.
Question Time does not lend itself to that, Deputy, I am sorry.
The Government saw that they had a responsibility because they allocated £1.6 million this year. They originated a temporary environment employment scheme, with the emphasis on temporary. This scheme has been discontinued by other local authorities but continued by Dublin Corporation. To allow an orderly assimilation of workers into the workforce, this £1.6 million was made available. Taking into account that in any organisation as large as Dublin Corporation there would be wastage, with the wastage and people taken on and the retaining of people we felt that that sum would be a help. The responsibility, of course, rests with the local authorities, as they are the employers.
Is it Government policy on the day before the European elections — and I am sure that people will be interested in Government policy——
That is not a question, Deputy.
—— is it Government policy to put these men on the dole queue? There is no likelihood of Dublin Corporation assimilating them, as suggested by the Minister. He is trying to create a diversion.
A question, please.
Is it Government policy to put these men on the dole queue?
The Deputy is now repeating himself on his feet.
The answer to that question is no.
The Minister may be aware that the Irish Municipal Employees' Trade Union are seeking a meeting of the various interested parties——
A question, Deputy.
—— the Department, the Corporation and themselves to discuss the proposed redundancies. Has he agreed or will he agree to such a meeting?
Yes. We shall be meeting the unions later in the month.
The Minister of State when answering Deputy Gregory said that it is not Government policy to put these men on the dole. If he does not provide the money necessary to keep them employed, and as it has been made clear that there is not a possibility of assimilating them into the workforce of Dublin Corporation, what else is the Minister doing except putting them on the dole?
That is argument.
One cannot ask a question here.
I suggest that the Deputy read Standing Orders. He will find a way of asking questions.
If it is an awkward question I can understand that the Minister of State might not like to answer it, but what would he recommend the corporation to do to preserve these men in their employment if the Government fail to give the money as it was given by their predecessors?
That is no awkward question and I have no fear of answering awkward questions. That is what we are here for.
That is nice to know.
We have made £1.6 million available.
The money has run out.
It has not run out. If he knew how it was being allocated the Deputy would not make that statement. It is being issued on a quarterly basis so the money has not run out. Money is available and it is a question of the corporation sitting down and doing their sums.
Doing their sums?
If Deputies encouraged people to pay charges to get more revenue in there might be money available to pay now.
Dublin Corporation have done their sums. They require £800,000 to keep these men in employment for the remainder of the year.
I am sorry, Deputy——
Will the Minister make that money available to keep these men in employment for the remainder of the year? If the answer is no, then the Government are putting these men on the dole queues.
Precisely.
Will the Minister make that money available? The sums have been done.
Once is enough to ask a question.
Not here.
I do not accept the Deputy's assertion that the sums have been done. We have made money available.
Not enough.
I have indicated that it can be done through assimilation and wastage. I arranged meetings with senior officials of my Department and the corporation recently and we are meeting the unions at the end of this month. There is no lack of will.
But there is a lack of money.
We are endeavouring to resolve this problem.
Is the Minister prepared to consider making the environmental work scheme permanent for the Dublin area? It is completely unsatisfactory that this crisis should arise every six to eight months. There is a clear need for such a permanent scheme in that area. In his discussions with the trade union and the corporation, will the Minister consider that option?
As I mentioned earlier, these schemes were discontinued by many local authorities and it would seem unfair if one local authority scored over the others. We have been trying to ensure that the workforce is assimilated in and we are working towards that end.
The Youth Employment Scheme is available. We have advised local authorities to apply for funds for environmental work schemes and there is an opportunity there. This is a good way of using the Youth Unemployment Agency expertise and money to give young people an opportunity to develop their environment.
May I ask the Minister the question which I have asked several times already but have not got an answer to?
If the Deputy does it will be repetition.
Will the Minister make available whatever finance may be necessary to Dublin Corporation to keep these men in employment for the remainder of the year?
I have indicated to the Deputy on a couple of occasions that we have made money available. There is an onus on the corporation, who are the employers of these people, to find money within their allocation. That is why we are having ongoing discussions on this matter. We are not dismissing it or ruling it out. We are very anxious to have this matter resolved so that these people may be kept on.
There is an onus on the Minister to answer the question I asked.
Question No. 12.
This is Question time and I expect an answer to my question.
Will Deputy Gregory please resume his seat?
The Minister of State has been deliberately misleading the House by his answer.
The Deputy is being disorderly. The Deputy will resume his seat.
I am simply asking the Minister of State to answer my question.
The Deputy will leave the House.
I will leave the House in protest. I expect answers to questions I ask.
The Deputy has refused to resume his seat.
I have never been disorderly in the House without very great pressure put on me.
That is a matter for the Chair to decide. The Deputy is being disorderly now.
The Minister of State is misleading the House.
The Deputy will leave the House. I name the Deputy and I ask the Minister to move his suspension.
I move:
That Deputy Gregory be suspended from the service of the Dáil.
Can the Minister of State do that?
Yes, and the Deputy could do it if he liked.
Deputy Gregory withdrew from the Chamber.
Before I call the next question I wish to refer to the suspension of Deputy Gregory. Deputy Gregory withdrew from the House after his suspension had been moved but before I could put the question. I am, accordingly, taking it that he withdrew from the House in accordance with the order of the Chair and is suspended for one day only.