asked the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism if he has any plans to regulate the price and quality of soft drinks sold as "mixers" in public houses, and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Soft Drink Prices.
1.
I have decided to defer, for the present, a decision on the recommendation of the National Prices Commission to introduce maximum prices for soft drinks sold in public houses. I believe that the trade should be afforded an opportunity to curb excessive prices themselves and I understand that some initiative in this regard has recently been taken by one of the vintners' associations.
I have not received any complaints about the quality of soft drinks sold in these establishments and considering the wide variety of soft drinks generally available I do not see a need for regulation in this area.
I presume the Minister is referring to the suggestion by some publicans of reducing the price by 2p to bring the total price reduction of a half one and a mixer to 10p. Is the Minister aware of the enormity of the profit margin in the mixer area and that the small bottles which can be purchased at 9p per bottle are sold at 40p, 45p or 50p per bottle? Is the Minister also aware that the dash — or the splash — which is the latest implement in the publican's repertoire, costs 20p to the customer whereas the cost to the publican is approximately 2p? Is he satisfied that any effort is being made to reduce this enormous rip-off by the publican?
I am referring, among other things, to the proposed reduction of 2p. As far as the levels of profit quoted by the Deputy are concerned, the figures he gave in respect of the bought in cost compared with the sales cost do not reflect the true profit margin in the sense that these, as well as other goods, have to carry a share of the overheads and general running costs of the public house. My information from the National Prices Commission indicate that margins were not in the region of 500 to 600 per cent but between 53 per cent and 56 per cent which, I agree, is very high. The mixers and soft drinks are probably bearing a disproportionate share of the cost of the overheads and profit element in public houses because of the existence of more rigid controls on alcoholic drinks.
I considered the question of introducing retail price control for soft drinks but this would have involved setting prices across the board and also setting a differential between bar and lounge prices of approximately 2p. I felt that it would be better to try to achieve these reductions by greater price display, price information and competition between outlets selling these products. I have been putting some pressure on the licensed vintners in the course of discussions I have had with them to recognise that there is public disquiet about the level of charges for these products which are nonalcoholic and that the publicans have a social as well as a business responsibility to try to price them at a more realistic level than at present.
My discussions in this area are continuing and I am glad to have the opportunity of availing of this forum to draw to the attention both of the customers for soft drinks in public houses and of those who are selling them that price levels are perhaps higher than they ought to be, in the hope that public pressure and competition — which will be assisted by the Government's decision to grant licences to restaurants in some places — may, generally speaking, bring to those in the licensing trade a consciousness that they must be price competitive and consumer orientated if they wish to retain their share of the business. That is the best approach at present but I do not rule out the possibility of introducing retail price control. However, competition and public pressure should be given an opportunity to operate first.
I am glad the Minister is obviously paying attention to this area but I contest his figure of 56 per cent profit. A publican who buys a very small quantity of these bottles will get them at 18p per bottle but if he buys 100 dozen or more, which is a very small quantity for a medium size public house, he will get them at 9p. If the Minister can tell me of anywhere that sells them at less than 40p I will be delighted to publicise it. In relation to quality, the Minister does not seem to be aware that to provide the "splash", the publican gets a concentrate to which he adds water to dilute it and make his own mixer. There is no control over the quality or the amount of water put into the mixture. It is a complete rip-off because the customers are not getting what they think they are getting — manufactured red lemonade and so on. They are getting a make up of the publican's own manufacture.
I wish to draw the attention of the House to the fact that we are having a speech and a reply on this question. I do not think this is in the best interests of an expeditious despatch of Question Time in a reasonable way.
Is the Minister aware of the quality of mixers?
I am aware that the use of the mechanised gun system of dispensing has become common in some parts of the country. These are reasonably priced and there have been allegations that they are inferior in quality to the others. I am prepared to examine this allegation to see if there is any substance in it.
Would the Minister agree that his duty and responsibility demand that he intervenes to try to impose a reasonable price control in this area? Would he also agree that it is a very good opportunity to do so and that it would be applauded by the public?
That is argument. I am not picking on anyone in particular but that is an example of the way questions are put. An argument is developed on each question.
I should like to ask the Minister if he agrees that his duty and responsibility demand that he should intervene in the scandalous area of price control? It is an opportunity to do something that would be applauded by the public. Depending on goodwill has not worked in the past and never will.
I accept that I have a responsibility in this area and I have intervened. I do not accept that the only way the Minister can intervene is by the introduction of a costly and rigid system of retail price control which requires significant numbers of officials paid for by the taxpayer to police it and which does not always take account of the circumstances of individual retailers. If every problem required a system of centralised control to solve it our tax level would be doubled.
I am calling the next question. We have spent over ten minutes on this question.
It is a rare opportunity to——
It is a rare way of dealing with questions. I have called Question No. 2.