Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 11 Dec 1984

Vol. 354 No. 10

EUMETSAT: Motion.

Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism (Mr. J. Bruton)

I move:

That Dáil Éireann approves the terms of the Convention and its two Annexes establishing the European Meteorological Satellite Organisation: EUMETSAT.

The primary objective of this new organisation is to establish, maintain and exploit European systems of operational meteorological satellites. No such specifically European organisation has existed hitherto.

EUMETSAT is being set up under the aegis of the European Space Agency, Europe's primary organisation for space and related high technology activities. Ireland's membership of the space agency and our participation in its activities fall within my area of responsibility.

On 24 May 1983, at a Conference of Plenipotentiaries held in Geneva the convention establishing EUMETSAT was formally adopted and opened for signature. The conference was attended by representatives of 16 countries, 15 of which have to date signed the convention.

The convention will enter into force 60 days after the date on which countries whose contributions to EUMETSAT amount to more than 85 per cent of the total budget, have ratified the convention. Of the 15 signatories, two have thus far ratified the convention.

By reason of Article 29.5 of the Constitution, the convention must be approved by Dáil Éireann before the State can be bound by it. Approval of the present motion will allow the formalities for ratification by Ireland to be completed in the near future.

In simplest terms, meteorology is the science of weather forecasting. Its benefits impinge on a number of key economic sectors and, in particular, on agriculture, shipping, air transport and fisheries.

Meteorological information has traditionally been provided by observation stations on land and on board ships of various kinds. The data thus collected is collated and exchanged among national meteorological services co-operating within the framework of the World Meteorological Organisation.

For a number of years now information obtained from ground based observers has been supplemented by data from American and Russian meteorological satellites. This information, and in particular the satellite photographs showing cloud cover and frontal activity, has considerably improved the accuracy of weather forecasting. It has been felt, however, and this country shares this feeling, that there should be an adequate availability of information from other than just these two sources, namely, the Russian and American sources.

With the spread of advanced space technology, therefore, countries other than America and the USSR have embarked on programmes of space meteorology, such as Japan and India. Indeed Europe itself, acting through its own European Space Agency (ESA), has also placed satellites in orbit. Ireland is, of course, a full member of ESA.

ESA has launched two satellites as part of its meteosat programme. This experimental project was funded by a limited number of ESA's more developed member states. While the meteosat programme provided a sound base for European satellite meteorology, it was obvious that once the programme ended with the expiry of the life terms of the original satellites, a more permanent structure would be required to ensure that Europe's needs in this vital area would continue to be met under a system which is under its own direct control in Europe.

For this reason, EUMETSAT has been established as an international organisation capable of procuring, launching and maintaining a system of European meteorological satellites.

As I have mentioned, the organisation is being set up under the aegis of ESA and indeed, out of ESA, meaning that the personnel etc., are initially being provided by the space agency. In a few years, as early as is practicable, ESA will hive off EUMETSAT which will then become a completely separate organisation. In order to provide continuity in the meantime ESA's meteosat programme will be maintained until EUMETSAT is fully operational.

Annex 1 of the convention describes the technical details of the satellite system which EUMETSAT will operate. The satellites will be of the meteosat type developed by ESA and will operate in what is known as "geostationary orbit". This entails placing the satellites in an orbit 36,000 km above the earth. At this altitude the satellite's orbital speed is equal to the speed of the earth's rotation and the satellite, therefore, has a fixed position relative to the earth's surface. This allows earth stations and the satellite to remain in contact "around the clock". As a result, pictures from the satellite can be available every 30 minutes. In case of weather satellites in low earth orbit, the meteorological service could only receive their signals as they pass over Ireland, six times daily.

Because of this frequency of transmissions and because of being specifically positioned to serve Europe, the latest data can be uniquely valuable in the formulation of short-term weather forecasts. Furthermore, the science of meteorology and the related broader science of climatology can be progressed by enabling the formulation of more accurate models which demonstrate theoretically how weather systems operate.

In the initial phase, which lasts for 12 years, Ireland under a special arrangement, will contribute to EUMETSAT at a rate of £25,000 per annum which is equal to approximately 0.1 per cent of the total financial envelope. On the date of signing, this percentage figure was inserted in annex II of the convention, which is lodged with the depositing authority in Geneva.

EUMETSAT will be governed by a council composed of not more than two members from each member state, each delegation having one vote. Thus, each member state will have an equal say in the running of the organisation, irrespective of the size of its contribution. One member of each delegation must be drawn from their country's meteorological service.

The council will have the powers to adopt those measures necessary for the implementation of the convention. The council will also be responsible for governing the conditions of accession to the convention, adopting the annual budget, and appointing the director of EUMETSAT. The director of EUMETSAT will be responsible for the implementation of the decisions taken by council and as the legal representative of EUMETSAT will have the power to sign agreements and contracts approved by the council.

Membership of EUMETSAT will guarantee this country greater range, accuracy and quality in weather forecasts as part of a continuing system into the indefinite future. This will result in a substantial and continuing improvement in the weather forecasting services provided for a number of key economic sectors.

I commend this motion for the approval of the House.

Mr. Flynn

I thank the Minister for his outline of the new organisation known as EUMETSAT. There are some aspects to which I should like to draw attention. Perhaps the Minister might be good enough to elaborate on some points raised in his introductory remarks. He might give us some further details as to what is involved here, seeing that there is quite a considerable contribution to be made annually by the State.

It is interesting that the Minister states that there was no specific European organisation in existence heretofore dealing with this matter. I was always of the opinion that our meteorological service has had quite a large tie-in with the ECMWF since 1975. In fact, that organisation was ratified by 12 countries and, I believe was also subscribed to by 19 outer European countries. Our meteorological service was an integral part of that organisation, as I understand it.

The Minister does not say how many satellites there will be, or give any details in the annexe as to the schedule of launching of these satellites and, in effect, whether we will be asked for more money subsequent to the decisions being taken by the new organisation as to the number of satellites which they will require at any one time. I take it that this new satellite is purely a picture taking satellite and that its job of work will be to transmit pictures to earth, where they can be adequately stored by way of computer and made available to the various subscribing countries so as to enable them to make better forecasts in the future. The present position is reasonably reliable and quite good weather forecasting can be made some five or six days in advance. The Minister does not indicate this, but I take it that there will be an advance on this because of the new technology and that we may expect to have up to some ten days weather forecasting in advance with greater accuracy and that there will be increased information available to all bodies that have use of this service.

So far as the European Space Agency are concerned and the number of satellites that they have been maintaining, perhaps the Minister might indicate if we were contributors to that scheme over the past number of years? We have certainly been beneficiaries to quite a large degree. Perhaps there is some way by which we could continue our participation without the necessity for the contribution now requested for us.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is the Deputy asking if we contribute to the European Space Agency?

Mr. Flynn

They have maintained a satellite in position for some time and we have been benefiting from it.

Mr. J. Bruton

We contribute every year.

Mr. Flynn

But not to any great degree of expenditure — nothing to what is being asked for here?

Mr. J. Bruton

There is provision in the Estimates for a contribution each year.

Mr. Flynn

I take it that the whole point in setting up this new agency is that Europe will have a new independent meteorological service of their own. There are very many organisations which benefit from a good weather forecasting system. I take it that the facility exists at present for our meteorological headquarters at Glasnevin to participate in the transmission of this information from the satellite — that we will not incur further capital expenditure other than the payment of £25,000 per annum which will be necessary. The Minister might clear that matter up.

There are very many uses to which this type of information can be put, not least of which concerns safety, but also in the area of farming, fishing, industry, air transport, surface transport — in particular, shipping — and offshore exploration. All these areas benefit to quite a large degree from the information and statistical data which come from the use of these satellites. Of course, there is always the question of the military uses to which such a satellite might or could be put. This is the area which I would like clarified. In particular, I am anxious to know if Plymouth Polytechnic were in any way involved in the financing of the arrangements for this new satellite. They are funded by the British Military Research Unit and would have a direct link into——

Mr. J. Bruton

Could the Deputy just repeat that, please?

Mr. Flynn

The Plymouth Polytechnic have a very considerable military dimension and I should be anxious to know if they would be contributing in any way either to the technical work or the information that would emanate from this new satellite. Can this satellite, or these satellites, be used for military purposes and is there a dimension of a strategic nature attached to the placing of these satellites in permanent orbit, as suggested, at 36,000 km above the surface of the earth? In particular, does the Minister think this satellite could be used for submarine surveillance? Would it be available, taking a particular instance, if a Department other than the Department of Defence or any other Department requested or directed, if entitled to, that a certain picture be taken at a certain spot on the globe at any given time?

According to the information available to me, this satellite is not just an orbiting satellite passing over Ireland every few hours. It is in permanent location at 36,000 km above the earth's surface. Because of its fixed position, it would be capable at any time of making quite a considerable impact by way of surveillance on any particular object that would be requested of it. Does the convention specifically debar the use of the satellite by agencies or Departments for military use of any kind in that area?

The initial payment of £25,000, on the face of it, looks a reasonable price to pay for the amount of data which will be available to our meterological service, but if it is 0.1 of 1 per cent I take it that the initial capital cost would be in the region of £25 million. What information will our contribution, small as it is, entitle us to and what participation can we have in the use of the satellite? Will this figure fluctuate on a yearly basis, or is it a static figure? For how many years are we committed to the payment of £25,000? Does our passing of this law this evening enable the convention, after their formulation, to make other demands upon us to which we would have no alternative but to subscribe?

The Meteosat system is beginning to terminate its life span and I take it that this satellite will be of a similar kind. However, we are given no details as to the number of satellites or the broad range of uses to which they might very well be put. It is interesting to note that of the number of people who have shown a considerable interest in this arrangement, only two have so far ratified the convention. It would appear that quite a number of countries are failing to meet their obligations so far as the contribution is concerned. Do I take it that they are pinching the information being made available by having the necessary tracking equipment without paying their contributions? I support the point of view that if we are participating in some convention and having the benefit of statistical data we should pay our way, but it seems strange that some of the other countries who appear not to have complied with their obligations are better off than us. Is any effort being made to see that right?

The Minister said that we would benefit virtually indefinitely from these new arrangements, but as I understand it the budgetary envelope only applies for some 12 years. What budgetary structuring will we have to comply with in future years? I can see great benefit accruing from participation in this kind of international arrangement particularly in the area of agriculture where advance warnings of storms and inclement weather will enable farmers to plan their programme of farming. Now that we are guaranteed better forecasting things will also improve for the fishing industry.

It has been agreed by statisticians in the meteorological service that weather moves in a cycle. Computers are now in a position to identify small weather changes on an ongoing basis and they can pinpoint the similarities that have existed in meterological forecasting over a long number of years. This information is now stored in computers and it reinforces the attitude that there is a cycle. There will be great technological advances in this area in the next decade, and this will be of great benefit to everybody.

I take it that the service will have to provide weather forecasting for statistical information and scientific advice on the application of meteorology. Our existing network is involved in a very elaborate telecommunications system. Irish weather reports are fed into the system to an international network and data is fed in from the US and European countries, from the Atlantic and from the Mediterranean to build up a first class weather forecasting system. This involves considerable co-ordination and co-operation with the existing service in other countries. It is appropriate that we express our gratitude to the meteorological service for the good work they have performed over a long period.

Will the Minister tell us if our major airports are equipped with essential weather radar facilities? I would draw the Minister's attention to the fact that a lot of the necessary information required to build up a proper meteorological chart was gleaned from stations all over the country and from ships at sea. Many ships on the Irish register have equipment for taking weather observations at sea. I should like to know, with the demise of Irish Shipping, if any of those ships on the Irish register were involved in that business. If they were, will the Minister assure the House that the necessary steps will be taken to see that we are not at a loss in this area? I wish to know if the necessary equipment has been installed in all weather stations and if the necessary trained staff are available to enable us to benefit from our involvement in this new satellite arrangement. There is no point in our paying £25,000 a year if we cannot back it up by our own capacity by way of personnel and equipment. We must provide an efficient service for those in farming, fishing, shipping, offshore developments and for those involved in military manoeuvres who might need this kind of service.

This kind of advance weather forecasting is an essential requirement even for ordinary living. We have all learned to enjoy good weather more because of advance notice. We take it as an everyday phenomenon that we can be told in advance that we can expect one or two weeks of good weather. This sort of information helps people to plan their lives in a better way. Even in that mundane way, advance weather forecasting is of considerable advantage apart from the advantages that will apply to essential services. In that regard I would ask the Minister to consider having a special type of programme either on radio or on TV for an extended specialised weather forecast, because with our participation in this new satellite arrangement we will be able to make long term forecasts. The Minister might consider doing this as part of the existing transmission on our national channel and he might also favourably consider making certain post office lines available to the Glasnevin headquarters, perhaps even free of charge, to interested groups who could get information on an hourly or day to day basis for their strategy in relation to farming, fishing and so on. I see no reason why the House should not welcome our participation in this satellite arrangement and I would be grateful if the Minister in summing up would allay some of my fears.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I welcome the motion. It appears that this agency does not have the ability to do political forecasting. If it did it would probably forecast that it is going to be very wet and windy not just for the Government but for the Opposition. It is a good thing for us to be getting away from depending for information on a USSR and a USA source. The further we get away from dependence on the super powers, not just for meteorological information but for security type information, the better it will be for everybody. It is a good idea for smaller nations to band together to try to maintain their independent source of information. In this regard this is the main benefit of this arrangement that the Minister is proposing here today. I presume that there will be a certain amount of duplication with the sources of information already available and that the main objective is to ensure an independent source of information. In that regard this is very welcome.

The points about fishing and agriculture are well made and in those areas this could be turned to our advantage. Many lives are lost annually not just on the seas but on lakes also and if we could be more scientific in forecasting weather conditions that could well result in safer seas, lakes and rivers, and agriculture would benefit also.

Regarding security, I have no hangups about the use of an independent satellite for security purposes. There has been a great deal of speculation recently that perhaps satellites are being used to track gun running or whatever. If that is so and if we could not do that through the European Space Agency, then we would have to do it through the USSR and the USA. Through this facility probably we could track gun running operations ourselves. I hope that the facility will be used to the total advantage of the country and not just in the areas of agriculture, fishing and weather forecasting, and if possible — it is not possible now — that it can be extended into the whole area of security, gun running detection and so on. Recently a ship was found running guns. The amount of ammunition and weaponary being used not just in Northern Ireland, but as it was used yesterday in my constituency to shoot the legs of three or four individuals——

Mr. Leyden

Is that in order? On a point of order, the matter is before the court at the moment.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Continue, Deputy.

Mr. G. Mitchell

For the information of Deputy Leyden, the court gave a decision this morning. Deputy Leyden, as usual, is off course regarding the shooting in my constituency. Guns are being brought into this country in boatloads and are being used not just in Northern Ireland, which is shocking, but within Dublin by Provos pretending to uphold the law.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will allow a passing reference.

Mr. Leyden

The Deputy is talking about weather satellites. Stay with the weather.

Mr. G. Mitchell

This satellite could be used in the interests of State security as well as for weather forecasting, fishing and agriculture. We should not have any difficulty about extending our involvement in that regard.

It will be a matter for the council of this new agency to appoint a director. It seems to me that when such positions become available in Europe through whatever agency the Irish have not their hat in the ring for the top jobs. We have trained personnel here who would be quite capable of taking up the position of director in this new agency, and I hope that we are not going to be offered third, fourth, or fifth secretary status in this agency. We are at present playing a role in the Council of Ministers and a prestigious role in Europe generally. We should be pressing for the directorship of this agency for an Irishman or Irishwoman. I hope the Minister will bear that in mind and will not allow the bone to go elsewhere too easily. In the past we have taken a back seat in other agencies. We should seek a specific role in this, particularly as an island State where weather forecasting and the other areas I have mentioned are so important.

I commend the report and I am delighted that the Minister has brought it before the House.

Mr. Leyden

I would like to sound a note of protest. We as an Opposition party have not been given the full details of this convention before this House. I made efforts over the last few weeks when this was first placed on the Order Paper to make contact with our Library here in the House and with the Department of Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism, but to date I have not received the convention document. Today I received an outline document which is very vague, a mere one-page document in relation to this very important convention. Is there something sinister behind the fact that we as an Opposition party have not been acquainted fully with the details of this convention? Some 12 months ago we entered into a convention with the EUTELSAT operation, the establishment of the European Telecommunications Satellite Organisation which received full and detailed examination here in this House, and I was provided with a full convention document before the matter was debated in this House.

Mr. J. Bruton

Let me ask the Deputy if he will give some indication as to whom he rang.

Mr. Leyden

I was in touch with the Minister of State's office.

Mr. J. Bruton

Which one?

Mr. Leyden

How many have you?

Mr. J. Bruton

Two.

Mr. Leyden

I presume it was Deputy Collins's office.

Mr. J. Bruton

Presumably the Deputy rang up somebody.

Mr. Leyden

I rang the Minister of State's office in the Department of Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism and it was Deputy Collins's office.

Mr. J. Bruton

When?

Mr. Leyden

In the last fortnight, and I sought the information. I was dealing with a car importation case, and I mentioned to the official there that I was seeking information on this convention and said that I would appreciate a copy of the document. Also I was in touch with the Library. Is a copy of this convention document at present in the Library? Is this convention document laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas? Twelve months ago the convention document was laid before the House and I obtained a copy before I came into the House to debate on it. We are joining another organisation called EUMETSAT and we have not got the convention document here to go through it in detail.

There are quite a number of advantages in obtaining the services of a meteorological satellite and also possibly there are advantages in joining the European Meteorological Satellite Organisation. Instead of entering into another European organisation which has satellite potential we could have obtained the services on a fee basis and, I am sure, we could have obtained exactly the same information without entering into another convention. It seems that we as a nation are entering on a regular basis into European organisations, and we have no guarantee that these organisations will not be used with some regard for military purposes. I appeal to the Minister today to reassure this House that on our entry into this convention, which I presume Dáil Éireann will ratify, we will get a guaranteed statement in relation to that.

We have now been handed a copy of the convention document and I thank the Minister for it, although it is at the eleventh hour. I do not know whether the Minister is responsible for this.

Mr. J. Bruton

I do not know either.

Mr Leyden

Is a copy of this convention document now before the Oireachtas in the Library? I sought a copy from the Library two weeks ago and I still did not get one.

Mr. J. Bruton

I am quite surprised that if my Department were asked for a copy they would not supply it. It is possible that the Deputy's query to the Minister of State's office, as it was in association with a constituency matter, may not have been transmitted. I do not know. I will have to inquire into it, but I am quite sure that if the Library were to ask for a copy of this convention document there is no reason why that should not be supplied to the Library on request. The formal requirement to lodge the convention document does not arise until after it is ratified, but I would expect that if in anticipation of this motion Deputies had requested a copy from my Department either directly or by the Library, they should have been supplied with it. I assure the Deputy that I will investigate thoroughly what he has said as I would be as concerned as he is that Deputies should receive full information to enable them to contribute in a matter as important as this.

Mr. Leyden

I thank the Minister for his comment, and I appreciate that he, being a very busy man, may not be aware of all the details but I assure the House that on two occasions, once from the Dáil Library and once from the Department of Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism, I sought a copy of this document.

Mr. J. Bruton

We shall follow that up.

Mr. Leyden

Yesterday Deputy Vincent Brady telephoned me at my home to inform me that this convention would be before the House today. I was aware that the matter would be before us at some stage since it had been on the Order Paper for the past two to three weeks. I inquired of the Minister for Communications whether he would be dealing with the issue, having regard to the communications element of it, but he informed me that another Minister would be dealing with it. I do not wish to labour that point but it is relevant so far as the House is concerned. I appreciate that the Minister who is also the Leader of the House would be the last person to try to deprive any Deputy, especially an Opposition Deputy, of the opportunity of participating in a more detailed way in this debate. However, we are at a handicap in the sense of not having had the opportunity of discussing the convention at a parliamentary party meeting.

Deputy Flynn seeks an assurance also in relation to the military aspects of this satellite. Any satellite has military potential because when in orbit it can be used for bouncing off communications signals. We should be well aware of the difficulties that could arise for us as a neutral nation in the context of the new satellites. That is why we should emphasise at all times our clear neutrality and especially when we enter into negotiations with other European members who are members of NATO. We should emphasise that not only will we not use the new satellites for any military surveillance purposes but that we expect all other subscribers to this convention to behave in the same way in this respect. It should be stated clearly by our representatives who are attending meetings of the organisation in question that in no circumstances can the question of military potential or military use be discussed in so far as the satellite is concerned.

Weather surveillance and forecasting is of vital importance to armies and military organisations. It can be of enormous importance to have satellites that can supply long term and detailed forecasts of weather conditions throughout the globe. However, this is an aspect which concerns us. We are anxious that when the Minister is replying he will state clearly the ideological position of the Government in relation to EUMETSAT. I sought and obtained a similar guarantee when EUTELSAT was debated here in November 1983. We have joined that organisation but one wonders why there is not a global organisation to deal with all satellite development in the area of communications and meteorological services. It seems to be very much a waste of resources and a duplication of purpose to have so many conventions in this area and so many organisations involved. I note that only two of the 15 signatories have already ratified this convention. When is it anticipated that the remaining parliaments will ratify the convention? I note, too, that within the terms of article 29.5 of the Constitution the convention must be approved by Dáil Éireann before the State can be bound by it. We must note also other provisions which relate clearly to our neutrality. Nothing can change our position in that regard other than a decision of this House but I should hope that the question of such a decision will never arise. We must have a clear and unambiguous approach to our position of neutrality.

So far as the use of these satellites is concerned perhaps we could have obtained agreement with the organisation to obtain for meteorological purposes the information we require without entering into another convention of this kind. Consequently, I should like the Minister to outline the benefits of membership as opposed to being subscribers to the organisation.

I consider the present system of weather forecasting by RTE to be inadequate. The process has not improved very much down through the years. However, with the advent of the EUMETSAT and the additional information that will be made available on a very regular basis, with perhaps photographs being taken at 30 minute intervals, RTE should have a much more up-to-date approach to weather forecasting. They should have a more up-market and professional approach so as to make the weather forecast section of the news much more interesting and more important. There could be for instance, a direct studio broadcast from the headquarters of the meteorological services instead of the present instudio approach.

I support strongly the views put forward by Deputy Flynn in relation to the availability of information by way of the new satellite and to having telephone services provided by Telefís Éireann to the meteorological services at a special rate thereby allowing people direct access to information regarding weather conditions. This sort of information can be invaluable to the farming community, to fishing interests and to many other interests, including the building trade. From my experience I am aware that access to such information could save this country countless millions of pounds especially in respect of crops which could be harvested before the advance of winds or storms. In addition, from a social point of view it would be of immense benefit to organisations to be able to obtain detailed information on weather prospects. Also, RTE should bring in the CEEFAX system which is now available in TV organisations in Britian. By the use of this procedure, up-to-date information and weather forecasting could be made available to the general public on a regular basis. It is a simple and straightforward procedure but RTE are lagging behind other organisations in making these facilities available. I recommend that with the advent of the EUMETSAT satellites they would have far more detailed information on a regular and consistent basis. In relation to the programme for launches and other detailed information——

Mr. J. Bruton

I will give that information.

Mr. Leyden

——I should like the Minister to keep us informed of the future launching periods and programmes. We are entering into an exciting era in relation to satellite communication generally. It is better to be in there and have a say. We could have associate membership but if I was in the Minister's position, on balance, I would probably support full membership and ratify the convention.

We support this because we will be involved in direct satellite broadcasting in the next two or three years. That is an area which is the responsibility of the Minister for Communications. We will have a lot to say about it in the months ahead. We will have direct control of satellites. There is the El Dorado of the future and an area where we can create many jobs.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is moving away from the weather satellite.

Mr. Leyden

As is the case with all these organisations we tend to be bypassed as far as the location of headquarters is concerned. We should put our case forward for as many jobs as possible to be created here as a result of membership of these organisations. I appreciate our contribution is small relevant to other nations but as a member of the EC we are in a position to provide the necessary facilities for such organisations. We support the ratification of this convention.

Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism (Mr. J. Bruton)

To deal with the military aspect, Switzerland and Sweden, both countries with a long standing policy of neutrality, are also signatories to this convention. The House can be assured that this does not compromise us in relation to our military stance. The information is to be received in real time from the satellite, in other words simultaneously. As the information is received in the satellite it can be transmitted direct to earth to the receiving stations.

Mr. Flynn

Of the 15 members who signed the convention only two have ratified it. Was Switzerland one of those?

Mr. J. Bruton

As far as the finality of the full operation of the convention following ratification is concerned which is what we are putting ourselves in a position to do, that has not been completed. There is no significance in the fact that only two countries have ratified it so far. As I understand it, all countries are proceeding to ratify it and there is no problem in any country.

As regards the use of the information, it will be received in real time directly in the countries concerned. The information does not have to be intermediated through any central organisation. There is no way in which we can be prevented from getting information which any other country gets. This arrangement will strengthen our independence as a country in overall terms in the sense that without this organisation we would be depending on the USSR or America. If, as is the case in America at present, the system was being privatised and if in the financial dispute over privatisation the system ceased we would have no system. As long as we have a European system we are proof against such a situation where for reasons outside our responsibility we could be cut off.

I endorse what Deputy Daly said that it is better to be in this organisation than to be outside it. The system is designed for the peaceful use of meteorology and satellites. It is not designed for other purposes. I understand that specifically militarily designed satellites would not be moving in this orbit. They would tend to move in a lower or higher orbit and would move over countries rather than remain geostationary. Once the information is received in a country there is no control over what use will be made of it. It comes directly into the country concerned. If information is broadcast within the country on the weather predictions, no one can say that the Army will not get that information, or that farmers will not get it. Anyone who wants it can get it. One cannot guarantee that the information will not be used for military purposes. As Deputy Mitchell said, it is in our interests to use it, if it is appropriate, for any purpose it may serve in the defence of the country. However, it is not designed for such purposes and the situations in which it might be used for such purposes will not be that significant.

Deputy Flynn asked a number of detailed questions. As regards the telephone service into the meteorological service here, I understand the office already have a special service where in addition to being able to ring them during working hours they have an answering service whereby one can ring for forecasts through the weekend. I will convey Deputy Flynn's views that this service be enhanced and improved in the light of the more sophisticated information that will be available. We have the facilities and the technical personnel to make full use of any information we will receive. What is involved is a metal dish which is in situ on the top of the headquarters——

Mr. Flynn

Will the Minister ask them to open their computer to home video viewers?

Mr. J. Bruton

That request will be conveyed to them. The Deputy asked questions about the Irish shipping weather reports. I have no specific responsibility for them but I understand that while they were available they were not of great significance as the ships were on the other side of the globe where the impact of local conditions on Irish weather was limited.

Deputy Flynn asked about the limit to our contribution. It is limited in cash terms to £25,000 in the annex to the convention. There would have to be renegotiation if that was to be raised. It is not a percentage figure but a cash limit.

Mr. Flynn

Will the Minister's office fill in the blank annex 2 for my benefit?

Mr. J. Bruton

We will provide that information as soon as possible. The Deputy asked about another organisation and asked why that was not sufficient for us and why we needed to be in EUMETSAT. That is a general meteorological organisation concerned with the transmission of meteorological information by all means whereas this is specifically a satellite organisation. We need to be in the satellite organisation to have access to the satellite information.

Mr. Flynn

The ECMWF was established at an international convention in 1975. The Minister said we were not involved.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister has about 25 seconds left.

Mr. J. Bruton

The headquarters will be in Paris. I agree that we should seek to have the headquarters of such organisations here and, as in the case of this organisation, we should seek to have Irish staff placed in as high and responsible a position as possible.

As regards the launch schedule, the first launch is expected to be in the first half of 1987, the next one in the second half of 1988 and the next in the second half of 1990. That is as far as advanced planning goes. I thank Members for the very detailed and searching examination given to this in such a short space of time. I appreciate the support of the House for what will be a very beneficial move for the country.

Mr. Flynn

Why were we deleted from the convention? In annex No. 2 the countries are listed and the total amount of accounting units to be provided are 400 million.

Mr. J. Bruton

Other countries are joining all the time and the figures change as new countries join. I will provide Deputies with an up to date list as of today showing countries who are members and the appropriate countries.

Question put and agreed to.