asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he is satisfied with the situation which pertains in the UK whereby at certain times Irish citizens are required to fill in landing cards and if he will make a statement on the matter.
10.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - UK Pink Card System.
9.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the present position in relation to the pink card system on sea and air flights to Britain; and if any change has been made to the inconvenience of Irish citizens going to or through Britain.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9 and 10 together.
Under the British legislation on prevention of terrorism, any person who lands in Britain on the way to or from Ireland may be required to fill in an embarkation or a landing card. The measures to be taken against terrorism in Britain are a matter for the British Government. So far as the treatment of Irish citizens is concerned, I attach the highest priority to efforts to ensure that the legislation is applied in an equitable and sympathetic manner, consistent with established civil liberties and that abuses are avoided.
I can confirm that the specific issue of landing (`pink') cards has been raised with the British authorities on a number of occasions. My Department have been informed by the British authorities that the use of landing cards is discretionary to local police forces. That is why passengers may be asked to fill in cards at some ports or airports and not others, or at certain periods and not others.
The British authorities recently assured my Department that, whether or not all passengers on a particular flight or sailing are `carded', there is no question of discrimination against Irish citizens, and that British passport holders are as likely to be requested to fill in cards as anyone else.
My Department will continue to monitor the use of the landing card system and will raise any aspects of it which may have a discriminatory effect against Irish citizens or which may cause unnecessary inconvenience or embarrassment.
Is the Minister aware this question was on the Order Paper before the more recent abuses of the PTA? Does he agree that the use of the card system recently is in breach of the no-passport and free access agreement between us and Britain? Would he agree that Britain is treating the Republic as if we were a former minor colony?
This card system was introduced in an Act which originally related to Northern Ireland in 1974. The Act was changed last year and it is now applicable to anybody landing or leaving Britain. It is a matter for the British Government how they choose to protect themselves from terrorism. There is great concern about it and I have been watching events very carefully, particularly in the last six weeks in case the system is being used in an unfair or discriminatory manner or that it is being used against the civil liberties of those involved, Irish people.
Is the Minister aware that the British authorities do not ask passengers on other Euro flights to fill in the pink card? Does he not agree that, as Deputy Mitchell has said, it is treating the people of Ireland as colonials?
That charge has been made and I took it up last week with the British authorities. They assured me that it is a matter for the police in particular areas. Therefore, the fact that it would be used in one area and not in another has no significance. It is a matter for a police chief as to whether he wants people on ships or aircraft to fill in the card.
The Minister did not answer my question. In the case of a Euro flight, whether to Manchester, Birmingham, Heathrow or any other airport in Britain, carrying passengers from the mainland of Europe, those passengers are not asked to fill in the card. Therefore, there is discrimination against Irish citizens.
I do not know if that is correct. The information I have been given is that any chief of police in any area is free to ask the airline or the shipping company to have the cards filled in. It appears that since the Brighton bombing Irish people are being asked more frequently to fill in these cards.
I can assure the Minister that passengers on Euro flights are not so asked.
Can the Minister say if he is satisfied that the use of these cards——
I am afraid the Deputy is going into another matter.
Can the Minister tell the House that he has brought to the attention of the British Government that the IRA recruitment element involved in the abuse of the PTA in this way——
The House can be assured that on numerous occasions and at all levels particularly recently, I have been discussing the use of the PTA with the British authorities, here and in London.
I ask this question for the purpose of getting public information. Will the Minister indicate that in this whole area the situation is not entirely one-sided, that we have reciprocal arrangements with the British authorities whereby we operate a system which is of very considerable help to them in regard to the detention of international terrorists and subversives, and would he remind the British authorities that we make this contribution to the security of both these islands, and therefore, when they start to operate some procedure unilaterally which is prejudicial, inconvenient and unhelpful to our citizens, they should bear the other aspect of these arrangements in mind? Will the Minister advert to the fact that apparently when the B & I ship calls at the British port it is a matter of routine, for British security people to go on board and arrest two, three or four members of the crew, as Deputy Mitchell is inferring, almost capriciously, These matters are causing grave concern to Irish people generally.
The Deputy is getting into another area.
The Chair should be patient.
I have been very patient.
Will the Minister remind the British authorities of the reciprocal nature of this whole business of controlling undesirable entrants into these islands as a whole?
The United Kingdom authorities are well aware of that. They have been reminded of that fact on numerous occasions in contacts between the two Governments. I believe it is an exaggeration to say, as Deputy Haughey has stated, that they almost as a matter of routine raid Irish ships. They have done so twice in the last few weeks. On one of those occasions, the night before last, two people were detained and they were released last night. I am very concerned, and have conveyed that concern, as to the manner in which those two people were arrested or detained under the Act.
Reliable people tell me that this is almost a matter of daily routine.
I am referring to what I consider to be the insensitive manner in which the two people were detained the night before last and I have conveyed my concern to the British authorities.
I will allow one question each from Deputies Wilson and Gay Mitchell.
I will not ask any more questions, no doubt to the Chair's considerable relief.
The Deputy should put down questions.
As a matter of dealing with this in the practical every day sense, will the Minister ask that a telephone be made available where somebody is detained so that that person can contact somebody who will identify him, seeing that a number of people, including Deputy O'Kennedy, found themselves in a position of being stopped with no telephone being made available to them to facilitate them being identified?
I have already done that but they have pointed out to me that the Act specifically states that they need not make the names known or allow people to contact a solicitor, a doctor or relatives for 48 hours.
Will the Minister agree that that is a severe interference with the rights of citizens of this country travelling to Britain? Will the Minister indicate whether the soft-centred resolution brought before the European Parliament by Mrs. Banotti, as distinct from the tough, hard line, vigorous one brought by the British Labour Party, would be more in keeping with the attitude we should adopt towards the PTA?
The description by Deputy Wilson of what Mrs. Banotti did in the European Parliament is ungracious and inaccurate. I should like to point out to the Deputy that it was the British Labour Party who produced this Act.
I am aware of that.
The Deputy should not forget that. With regard to the other matter, what he sees as an infringement of the rights of people travelling if they are detained without an opportunity of contacting relations and so on, I should like to state that we have spoken to the British authorities about that. I hope we will not introduce legislation here whereby people will vanish off the streets without any contact with anybody for 48 hours. I must point out that this is an Act of another country and not an Act of this country. The Act was put through the parliament of another country.
Obviously it is geared towards the citizens of one country.
No, a number of people who were not Irish were arrested under this Act in the last 12 months.
Not as a result of the pink cards because people from Europe are not asked to fill them in.
Is this red card system applied to persons travelling on diplomatic passports, on Government or European business?
Deputy Andrews and former Deputy Ryan were stopped and they refused to fill in the card. Since then, and following our contact with the British, the authorities have said that people travelling to the European Parliament in future will not be asked to do this.