While I am pleased to see the creation of the new authorities in Dublin county I am sorry to see that an increased population is contained within the city boundaries and that the ratio of population to member will remain as high as 10,500 to one. On the other hand in County Leitrim it will be approximately 1.100 to one. I can understand the problems in County Leitrim and I know they need additional representation but the problem in Dublin is that local authority areas will be almost the same size as a three seat Dáil constituency. As I pointed out on the previous day, many people who are not interested in local government will seek election to the new Dublin city authority purely as a springboard into the Dáil. All of us who have been interested in membership of this House have had that in mind. However, we should use the opportunity of reform to try to create two streams of government. We should have a local government stream that has governmental powers at a local level and that also contains the local element. This is not the case at the moment. We are encouraging people to use the local authority merely as a vehicle to get to this House.
As practising politicians we realise the importance of the local authority to Deputies because of the size of the local electoral areas, leaving aside the point of Deputies having an interest in local affairs. Now we are encouraging people who have no interest in local affairs to get on to the local authority to keep their seat in the Dáil or to secure a seat here. I am sorry to say that the city boundaries are so large that it will facilitate these people. Many people say Deputies should not be councillors but I think an argument can be put forward in this connection. The same could be said about doctors, barristers or carpenters not being councillors. If a person has an interest in being a councillor he should be allowed to pursue that interest.
If we are seriously interested in supporting the functions of local government and central government it is not good enough just to say that TDs should not be councillors. Councillors should not simply go into local authorities of the size of the Dublin city local authorities simply as an access to the Dáil. If we are serious about trying to avoid two roles we have to make the Dublin city arrangements much more local so that it will really be a local government operation.
Presumably a further Bill will be necessary to set up the authorities in the Dublin region. I do not know the precise position of the Dublin metropolitan council as there are no legislative functions spelt out for it. Does the Minister have in mind a loose arrangement similar to that which pertains at the moment in the local authorities where they set up committees to deal with certain issues? It would be interesting to see the plans for the metropolitan authority.
In drafting this Bill we have not set up urban district councils for the areas of Tallaght, Clondalkin, Crumlin and Drimnagh where large numbers of people live. These areas should have urban district councils as there are more people in them than in most of the larger cities and they should have a measure of self-government. Without major expense we could have provided urban district councils in those areas and these councils could tackle, for instance, the problem of crime in formal co-operation with the chief superintendent in the area. In that way the elected people would deal at local level with the problems in communities and they would not have to depend on the knee-cappers or others to sort out their problems. In order to make society a better place in which to live we should involve the community in solving local problems. There should be statutory powers for the creation of councils in large conurbations around Dublin. I regret that this Bill does not cater for this situation.
These councils do not yet exist. It would be a good idea to pass this legislation and introduce the second Bill quickly. Until the authorities are set up there is not much point in holding local elections based on the new boundaries. If the elections go ahead it will be possible for people whose present constituencies straddle the new boundaries to opt to serve on one authority or another. It is ridiculous to elect people to authorities which do not exist and to give the elected representatives the option as to which authority they will serve. That element of this legislation is very unprofessional. If this legislation must pass we should ensure that at least in the local elections in June we can elect people to authorities that exist. If we must elect people to authorities which do not exist we should at least ensure that the second Bill is passed to set up those authorities before the summer recess.
I am concerned about a problem which will undoubtedly be exacerbated by the size of the local authorities in the Dublin city area. The problem I refer to is impersonation. Under this Bill there is a ratio of 10,500 people to one member. In this situation it it easy for impersonation to take place. For instance in the south inner city electoral area where there are large flat complexes and a huge turnover of population it is very easy for impersonation to take place. The small turnout that we usually have for local elections also make it easier for impersonation to take place. Because of the size of the electoral areas I have no doubt that with impersonated votes people will be elected to these authorities. I have no doubt that impersonation will be organised and it will involve blocks of flats with a high turnover of population and where people usually do not vote at local elections and we all know to what party the votes will go. From 50 to 150 votes can make all the difference in the local elections. The city is wide open for impersonation and people will be deprived of their rightful representatives because of this. I know the Minister and Opposition spokesmen are also concerned about this. I implore the Minister to try to work out a system to beat impersonation in Dublin city. In Northern Ireland they have introduced a system of identification. I do not advocate that but we could at least ensure in Dublin city that the tables are properly manned even if it means paying people from State funds. Those manning the tables could challenge people coming in to vote.
In relation to vacancies on the new authorities there is no reference in this Bill to co-options in the event of a vacancy. I presume the present system will continue where the councils just coopt somebody in the case of a vacancy. I would ask the Minister to consider including in this legislation or in the next legislation provisions whereby local communities would have an input in filling a vacancy on a corporation or a council. Since we are now creating in the Dublin area four new authorities I would ask the Minister to look at the powers of the chairmen of these authorities. The powers of the Lord Mayor in the city are pretty well enshrined not just in law but by tradition but chairmen of authorities should have specific powers. The Minister should consider giving such people powers so that the elected representatives will have some executive input into the running of local authorities.
When in Opposition I was spokesman on health board reform and I received a lot of correspondence and representations on the matter. Many people expressed the view that there was a lot to be done in the area of health board reform. I accept that view. It is an extra layer of Government which I question the need for. In the process of trying to sort out the local government mess which has been created, particularly in the Dublin area with one authority circling the city authority, we have gone some way towards sorting out that difficulty. However, on a regional basis we have a health board which covers the whole of Dublin and takes in parts of Wicklow, Kildare and Louth. I would like to see some local input and representation on those health boards. I would like to see greater representation on the district health committees which relate to these local authorities. More power should be returned to those health committees. The question of relating health boards directly to the new authorities should be considered.
Many local problems could be dealt with at a local level. For instance, dental problems for children, when they reach 15, or married women — I accept that there is a commitment to assist such people — could be dealt with at a local level. We should have a greater local input on health boards, which should work and operate on a local authority basis. I am referring in particular to the Dublin region. We should get our health services more streamlined and responsive to the needs of the community. It is possible that if we had more married women on such committees they would not have been left so long without the same opportunity as their spouse to avail of dental facilities. If local authorities and local government are to be local then health and other facilities should be on a local level. It should be possible to tackle the crime problem on a local level. The local authorities we are creating should be given power to deal with such matters.
With regard to the question of rates which will apply in this city and county, Deputy Molloy pointed out that there will be a problem because of the variation in valuations as between the city and the county. Parts of the city are being transferred into the county and parts of the county are being transferred to the city. The rate in the county is much higher than the rate in the city but the valuations in the county are lower than those in the city. When one multiplies one by the other one will see that there is a great equalisation. However, if one brings in higher valuations from the county to the city and multiply the valuation by the city rate there will be an enormous disproportionate rate of assessment. That will apply, in particular, to business properties unless at the same time that the Minister is redrawing the boundaries there is a revaluation of the existing rateable valuation on those premises.
That matter should be dealt with. If it is not the rateable properties within existing local authority areas will continue to be assessed at the rate struck by the old authority until there is a change in valuations. Indeed, it can work in reverse with the lower rate in the pound being multiplied by the lower valuation giving somebody a windfall in their rates bill. However, the problem of the difference in valuations and in the rate in the pound for the city and county will have to be dealt with in conjunction with the change in boundaries. The consequences of the change need to be spelled out so that we do not find ourselves with people suddenly being asked to pay enormously higher rates simply because the Dublin county valuation is being multiplied by the Dublin city rate in the pound. Nobody intended that or wants to see it happen.
I hope that when the next piece of legislation on local government reform is introduced it will be a reforming measure rather than a reorganisation Bill. The Bill before us changes the boundaries and reduces representation in the county of Dublin but it does not do very much to reorganise the city of Dublin. I am looking forward to the next piece of legislation to see what powers and financial arrangements there will be for the new authorities. I will be able to judge by that the reform that is proposed. Dublin is badly in need of reform as well as reorganisation.