Vol. 359 No. 7
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he is aware that the 40-strong incursion of British army troops into this State on Friday, 31 May, were carrying arms at the time of the incursion; the action he proposes to take to ensure that no such offence against this State recurs; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
14.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he has protested in the strongest possible terms to the British Prime Minister about the recent incursion into the territory of this State by members of the British Army at Hackballscross, County Louth, and, if so, with what result; and whether arising from the release of diesel oil into a nearby river resulting in the pollution of the water supply to the town of Dundalk by British Army personnel, a claim for adequate compensation for this incident has been lodged with the British Government.
On the evening of Friday 31 May, the Department of foreign Affairs were informed by the Garda authorities that an incursion by five British soldiers took place earlier that day near Hackballscross, County Louth. My Department protested the incursion immediately to the British authorities. At that time it was also indicated that if initial concern that the leakage of fuel had been brought about by the activity of the British soldiers was confirmed, a yet more serious view of the incident would be taken.
We have learned from subsequent Garda investigations that ten British soldiers were in fact involved in the incursion.
During the course of the weekend following the incident, the British authorities were further requested, on the instructions of the Taoiseach, to give their full co-operation so that a thorough investigation of the incident involving the oil spillage could be made. The Government were given an assurance to this effect from the British authorities. The British authorities have since indicated in statements to the press, which were confirmed to my Department, that having made inquiries into the matter they have found nothing to suggest that British soldiers were responsible for the leaking of the fuel. Investigations are continuing and we will await the conclusion before we take any further action on the matter. In so far as the incursion itself is concerned, the British authorities have admitted that this indeed took place. They state that it was a result of a map reading error by the troops involved. The British authorities have expressed regret for the incursion.
I am advised that preliminary notice of a claim for compensation of £25,000 under the malicious injuries code has been lodged against Louth County Council by the owner of the storage tank. If the allegations that the spillage was brought about by the activities of the British soldiers are confirmed, my Department will consider the situation with a view to taking appropriate further action on compensation and other issues. In the meantime, Deputies can rest assured that the Government take an extremely grave view of this incursion and that this view has been forcefully conveyed to the British authorities.
Is the Minister aware——
A Government Deputy has his own way of dealing with matters——
As far as I am concerned, Deputy McGahon has a question on the Order Paper and he is allowed to ask supplementaries.
I am concerned that by allowing supplementaries from Deputy McGahon you are breaching a precedent——
I am not.
You are.
The Minister is aware that I do not accept the figures——
A question, please.
A British patrol of five foot soldiers does not travel 500 yards ahead of the main regiment. They are covered on every side and, in this case, they were covered by at least 40 to 50 soldiers. Does the Minister agree that if the law is to be upheld or to mean anything, British soldiers carrying arms on Irish soil should be detained, arrested and tried in an Irish court of law? Does he further agree that if this deterrent were used, there would be no more "map reading errors"? It is an insult to say that this invasion was due to a map reading error. In relation to Deputy Haughey's question——
The Deputy should confine himself to his own question.
I am taking the figures furnished to my Department by the Garda authorities. On the question of the map reading error, the British authorities stated that it was as a result of a map reading error that this incursion took place. They followed that with an expression of regret in regard to the number of such incursions. The figures indicate that the number of incursions has fallen considerably in recent years but any such incursion has been the subject of a protest by the Government and I will be happy only when there are no incursions at all.
May I first of all ask the Minister — I am adverting now to the fact that in his reply he seemed to me to speak exclusively of British explanations of the matter — if any investigation of this incident was carried out by our own authorities, Army or Garda? In particular, has the question of the release of diesel oil into the water supply to the town of Dundalk been fully and thoroughly investigated by the Garda and or the Army? May I ask the Minister if he seriously accepts this hoary old chestnut of errors of map reading? Will he not agree with me that in that sort of situation there are so many other indicators available to any body of soldiers as to exactly where they are that the excuse of a map reading error does not wash?
On the question of the investigation I should like to say, yes, the matter was and continues to be investigated by the Garda Síochána. The figures I quoted in my reply to Deputy McGahon were based on a report from the Garda Síochána and their investigations are continuing. They are also investigating the fact that the oil spillage took place and the various allegations made in respect of it.
In regard to the map reading remarks made by Deputy Haughey, I should like to say that, as I mentioned in my reply, this was the excuse given by the British authorities. As to whether one accepts map reading excuse or not I should like to point out that our approach has been that we are a sovereign State and that any incursion for any reason whatever is not acceptable to us. On that basis, referring to a map reading problem may provide an explanation but does not provide an excuse. I do not believe there should be any incursions whatever.
On the latter point, I should like to know if the Minister has made it clear, as he is now saying to the House, to the British authorities that incursions are not acceptable and that the alleged excuse of a map reading error is not acceptable either. On the basis of those two principles has the Minister asked for some apology from the British authorities or some categoric assurance as to the future behaviour of their troops? Will the Minister, in dealing with this matter, point out to the British Government, and ask them to convey it to their military commanders, that the post boxes on this side of the Border are painted green and the ones on the far side of the Border are painted red and if they cannot find any other clear indication as to their whereabouts they, perhaps, might be of some guidance to them?
In regard to the investigation the Minister mentioned, I should like to say that surely at this stage gardaí on this side of this artificial boundary should be in a position to say whether this pollution of the water supply can be attributable to the British soldiers or, if not, who is to be held responsible for it? I know well that if it was some youngster in my constituency in Coolock who was accused of some incident of this kind the Garda would quickly be able to decide who was responsible. Will the Minister tell us exactly what is the status of the investigation on our side? Have any reports been received by him and, if so, what is the content of those reports? When do the Garda propose to give from their point of view, never mind the British point of view, an assessment as to exactly who was responsible for this criminal act?
In relation to the general question about incursions, I should like to state that the Government take an extremely grave view of all incursions. Deputies may be aware that the standing instructions of the British authorities forbid the Northern security forces to operate south of the Border. Our Government are determined to ensure that these instructions are complied with. Any time any incursion is reported, and confirmed, my Department lodge an official protest with the British Government with a request that an explanation be given. The British Government at a high political level are aware of the views of the Irish Government on this incident. They are aware that incursions are regarded here as gravely injurious to our joint co-operation on security and other matters and that they are counter-productive in that they provide propaganda to subversive organisations.
In this instance a protest was made and the British authorities expressed regret for the incursion. In regard to the oil spillage, I should like to state that the Garda investigations have not yet been completed. The Garda have confirmed that there was a spillage at Conway's Quarry but so far they are unable to say who was responsible for that spillage. The latest indication I have from the Garda is that their investigations are continuing in that regard.
Is the Minister aware that the Border is clearly identifiable in this area where this, the most serious of all incursions, took place, by the Court-bane river? There was no question of post boxes because the soldiers did not come up the road. The incident occurred at 11 a.m. a few fields across from the barracks in Crossmaglen. I agree with Deputy Haughey who said that not enough diplomatic push was used in this case. I request the Minister to demand that no further incursions of this nature take place. Will the Minister agree that had the incursion not taken place in the first instance there would not be a claim for £25,000 against the ratepayers of County Louth? Will the Minister agree that because of this, and the position of the Border in this area, that the British Government should pay this claim?
I have a few more points to ask the Minister about.
I must point out to the Deputy that when we reach 3.30 p.m. no further supplementary questions will be allowed on this question, only questions from the Deputy.
In that event I will allow my colleague, Deputy Kirk, to ask a question.
That is a matter for the Deputy but it will have to be a quick question because I am going to enforce my ruling.
Is the Minister aware that incursions are taking place on a regular basis in Border areas and that people are living in fear and apprehension of the activities of the British Army and, indeed, the SAS in those areas? Having regard to this act of vandalism when diesel oil was released into the water supply for Dundalk will the Minister agree that it is time to take positive action, arrest those guilty of the offence and bring them before our courts, namely the British Army in this case?
I have already indicated the grave view the Government take of any incursion. I should, however, point out that the number of incursions has gone down in recent years. Records in my Department show that from 1973 to the end of 1982 there were an average of 64 incursions annually. In 1982 there were 49, in 1983 there were 22, a reduction of more than a half, in 1984 there were 27 and in 1985 to date there were 17. I believe these figures indicate that the protests made by successive Irish Governments in this regard have been having some effect, but I reiterate that I will not be happy until there are no incursions whatever.
The Minister mentioned protests. Could I ask him to be a little more specific about that? In what way are protests made about these incursions, and in particular what way was the protest made on this occasion? Would the Minister agree that there is a suspicion around that when incidents of this kind take place officials of the Department of Foreign Affairs ring their counterparts in the Northern Ireland Office and in an apologetic manner say: "I am sorry old chap, but I have been asked to bring to your notice that your troops were across our Border again".
The Deputy should put a question.
I am asking the Minister if that was the form of protest made or if there was some other written protest made by the Department? I know the Taoiseach for his own personal reasons came in later and spoke about investigations and so on, but as regards departmental procedure, what exactly was the procedure followed? What action was taken? Was there a written note or was there a casual telephone call?
May I——
I am sorry Deputy but I cannot allow you any further questions. I wish Deputies on all sides would read the order of the House which they made.
I can assure the House and the Deputy that there is no question of a casual reaction on the part of my Department or the Government in relation to this incursion or to any incursion. I am not fully clear about the exact mechanics in any particular instance.
You are not?
That is a terrible admission.
An honest admission. I am not aware exactly what one official says to another in a particular instance. All I know is that——
It is no wonder they will not listen to the Minister.
They are not taking any interest in it.
I do not think these snide remarks are helpful. If the Deputy is seriously interested in examining the situation——
I am deeply interested but I know what happened.
Any time an incursion is reported and confirmed the Department lodge an official protest with the British Government with a demand that an explanation be given. That was done in this case and in addition, on the instructions of the Taoiseach, they were requested to give full co-operation so that a thorough investigation of the incident involving the oil spillage could be made. These investigations are continuing and the British authorities have confirmed that they have been giving, and will continue to give, full co-operation in these investigations.
Nonsense.
Deputy McGahon said "nonsense".
With regard to the last matter, may I ask the Minister if the Garda in the course of their investigations have interviewed the British troops concerned and taken statements from them in view of the fact that these incidents occurred on our national territory, and if not, why not? I am talking about the Garda investigations into the deliberate spilling of diesel oil into the water supply for Dundalk town.
The exact details as to how the Garda carry out their investigations are not available to me and, even if they were, I am not sure they should be disclosed to the House. The Garda have their own job to do. I have been assured by the Garda Síochána that they investigated the matter straight away, that their investigations are continuing and they will be furnishing a further report in due course. On the specific point of taking statements from those involved in the incursion, I do not have a note in my brief that this occurred — I believe it did not occur but this is very much a matter for the Garda Síochána.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I cannot take a question from you. We are in Priority Question Time now.
We changed the rules since the Deputy was last here.
The Deputy voted for this.
Deputies come in here and nod things through without a chirp and then they are in here ballyragging the Chair because he enforces it. I will not have that.
Do not tell us, tell your own side.
Would the Minister not agree that the information available to him on this matter is completely inadequate and that as a result his replies to this House on what my colleague, Deputy McGahon, quite rightly says is one of the most serious incursions of all time, are unsatisfactory? I think the Minister would agree that that is the position. Would the Minister of State or the Minister for Foreign Affairs personally pursue this matter to a satisfactory conclusion from the point of view of Deputies? May I ask the Minister if, in his own mind, he would not regard this particular incident as being in the same context as the impertinent attempt by the Chief Constable of Northern Ireland to summon the Garda Commissioner to attend on him? Does he not think that this general arrogant approach by the security forces in Northern Ireland emanates from numerous statements made by the Taoiseach in regard to security in Northern Ireland in which he says——
That is a separate question.
——that the British Government and himself have the same perception of the problem? In view of those statements, does he not think it follows that the British security forces in this and in similar incidents would be encouraged to take the high handed attitude they have been taking?
I am calling Question No. 15.
Am I given permission to reply?
If the Minister wants to make a statement he can but that is a totally different incident.
It has to do with the investigations.
We could go back over the last 50 years——
If you wish me to pass to the next question I will.
I reject entirely what the Deputy had to say.
Does the Minister reject what Deputy McGahon said when he described the Minister's statement as nonsense?
If the Minister wants to answer the statement made by Deputy Haughey he is at liberty to do so.
That is rather peculiar when you tried to stop me——
But I did not succeed.
As I said, I reject entirely what the Deputy had to say.
Deputies are finding it very hard to hear the Minister's answers.
An extension microphone is required for the Minister because of his height.
It is too far away from me.
If the Minister were in Clonakilty, he would be much more vociferous.
Let him come down to the common level, please.
