Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 6 Nov 1985

Vol. 361 No. 6

European Communities (Amendment) Bill, 1985: Second Stage (Resumed): and Subsequent Stages.

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

I take this opportunity in replying to the debate to add my céad míle fáilte to the 50 million new citizens of the EC from Spain and Portugal.

The support of the Opposition for the enlargement of the Community to include Spain and Portugal is very welcome. It was important that we had the opportunity to analyse the full implications of enlargement but whether that opportunity was fully grasped in the course of the debate is a moot point. Many of the Opposition speeches, while dealing with general European issues, failed to focus on the central issue of the consequences of enlargement. I say that as a statement of fact rather than a critical comment. In replying to the debate I intend to concentrate on the points raised in relation to enlargement rather than on the broader European issues as there will be an opportunity to debate those issues when this House discusses the reports on developments in the EC.

When the subject of enlargement was addressed, to a large degree critical comment on our negotiating strategy was uninformed and unsupported by the facts. In effect, it was a load of "old codswallop". At times one had the impression that the Opposition wanted to have their cake and to eat it, or to be more apt, to have their fish. Mention of fish brings me to the heart of the matter. If terms regarding enlargement were to be agreed, clearly a solution had to be found to this problem. It goes without saying that fisheries was one of the most difficult areas of negotiation for the Community as a whole and was the most difficult area so far as Ireland was concerned. Despite these problems, or perhaps because of them, a major part of our negotiating strategy was devoted towards ensuring that our fishery interests would be protected in an enlarged Community and that there would be continued scope for further development.

By a combination of patient negotiations and, to some extent, political brinkmanship, we pushed our concerns to the wire and the outcome was an agreement that represented the best possible solution that could have been obtained in our interests without going over the boundary and preventing enlargement. I do not think anyone on the Opposition side has gone so far as to suggest we should have taken that course.

The suggestion that we will face a Spanish fishing armada after enlargement is totally unfounded. Such wild accusations are easily made and perhaps they make good copy but they bear no relationship to the facts.

The Minister's colleagues and his own party have admitted today that this danger exists. Deputy Sheehan is on the record of this House as stating that fact.

Will the Minister of State say what happened at the Council meeting two days ago? There was confusion about what was agreed.

I will come to that later. I was here when Deputy Sheehan spoke. Anything I have to say will not conflict with his rather colourful speech.

Will the Minister of State admit to writing Deputy Sheehan's speech for him?

I am afraid that would be beyond my competence.

What about the confusion at the Council meeting the other day when they did not know what was agreed?

I must insist that Deputies allow the Minister of State to continue without interruption.

The Minister of State has made accusations.

I must insist on getting a hearing for the Minister and for every Deputy.

Wild assertions regarding the possibility of a Spanish fishing armada are totally unrelated to the facts.

They are coming in every day of the week.

I ask Deputy Daly to restrain himself.

Spanish access to waters and fish stocks around Ireland will be absolutely and strictly limited. There was much talk about the size of the Spanish fleet. It is correct that that fleet numbers 17,500 vessels. Obviously if the impression is created that a flotilla of 17,500 boats is ready to descend on our waters one could assume that a fishing armada is on the way. However, that is not the case and any such impression is utterly ludicrous. None of the 17,500 vessels of the Spanish fishing fleet will be permitted to fish in the Irish box, the 50-mile zone around our coast, for ten years.

They are fishing there every day of the week.

Even from 1996, at the most 93 vessels of standard 700 hp size — that is, approximately half of 1 per cent of the Spanish fleet — will be allowed to fish within the 50-mile zone. Furthermore, this overall number of 93 will not be concentrated in the waters adjacent to our shores but will be spread over the entire Community area.

How many equivalent Irish vessels have we got?

We were able to secure a commitment from Spain to negotiate an orderly and phased access to the Irish box after 1996. These provisions regarding access to our waters will be reinforced by very tight controls, including quotas. Mention has been made of illegal fishing by Spanish vessels. On that point I share the concern expressed by speakers on both sides of this House. Certainly the figures are alarming. At the moment arrests are running at the rate of about one per week and the total number of Spanish registered vessels arrested since 1980 is 233. In the context of illegal fishing, it is important to note the situation that will apply after 1 January. After that date Spanish vessels will be subject to inspection in Spanish ports by Community inspectors and, in addition, Spanish vessels entering present Community waters will have to notify coastal member states on entry and exit and report their catches. We have been able to secure a regime that will involve a much tighter control system after enlargement and this will put us in a much stronger position to deal with illegal fishing.

An important aspect we were able to negotiate in the context of enlargement was the matter of adequate fishing surveillance capacity. That question looms very large. We were able to secure an agreement that consideration would be given to the grant of financial aid for appropriate surveillance measures necessitated by enlargement. I expect specific proposals in this regard from the Commission in the very near future.

These facts, rather than the flights of fancy indulged in by the Opposition, reinforce the point that the development of the Irish fishing industry will not be impeded by enlargement. There are, of course, other factors affecting fishing development, but if we fail to take advantage of present opportunities, we should not blame the Spaniards. The agreement we negotiated in the context of enlargement gives every possible protection in the context that we could not veto the enlargement. As I mentioned earlier, we pushed the situation to the wire to make sure that the best and most watertight arrangement would be put in place after enlargement.

A further point was raised in the course of the debate in relation to the grant-aid to Spain to enable her to restructure her fleet. What needs to be stressed in this regard is that when Spain takes advantage of this aid, Spanish vessels will be taken out of use and only half of them will be replaced. People may well say that they could put a super trawler in place of a rusty hulk, but they will be restricted in that any such replacement has to be of a similar category and engine size.

I expect that measures like this will go some way towards reducing the massive capacity of the Spanish fleet. I say that in the context of the obvious over-capacity of the Spanish fleet while, at the same time, recalling my earlier remarks on the limited access after ten years by one half of 1 per cent of that fleet to Irish waters.

Can the Minister give us the details of the equivalent Irish fleet? How many do we have in the same category?

The facts in relation to Irish boats are well known to the Deputy.

We are talking about percentages now. Let us compare the figures.

Bord Iascaigh Mhara provided £4.3 million in assistance in 1984 for structural measures, such as boat building and modernisation for sea fisheries to build up our own fleet so that they will be able to compete on an equal footing. Community finance from the guidance section of FEOGA is also available to both fishermen and fish processors.

At a meeting of the Council of Fishery Ministers on Monday a point was raised in relation to the length of time for which each periodic list was to be established. At that meeting my colleague, the Minister, Deputy O'Toole, stressed the importance of a regime which will provide for practical and effective control of the activities of the Spanish fishing vessels. The Minister was strongly supported by the French and British Ministers at that meeting. The House can be assured that we will continue to insist on an effective regime to ensure that access to Community waters by Spanish vessels included in the periodic lists can be effectively monitored.

They have already found a loophole in the negotiations.

They showed us up the other day in Brussels.

Some doubts have been expressed about the market possibilities open to us in Spain. What are the facts? Spain is one of the world's great fish markets and there is a constant demand for fish products. I am aware of that from my own constituency because there is a Spanish concern operating in Castletownbere. I believe this is a challenge facing our fishermen and fish processors and I want to see them taking up this challenge by supplying this market with the type and quality of products demanded. We can create the right environment but Deputy Carey put his finger on it when he said it was up the fishing industry to take advantage of this market opportunity.

The question of stock quotas was raised in the course of the debate. The accession agreement ensures for Ireland larger quotas of species such as hake, megrim and monkfish. These are species for which there is a very heavy demand on the Spanish market. Deputy Daly asserted that our future possibilities for blue whiting and horse mackerel will be minimised due to Spain's accession, but I do not agree with that. I accept that these two species have been little fished by our fishermen to date, but I believe our fishermen will respond to the opportunities that have presented themselves.

Applications for assistance towards conducting exploratory fishing to determine the extent of the possibilities that exist in relation to the species have already been made to the Commission. If these exploratory efforts are successful, then a whole new ball game will come into play because we will be fishing a species for which there are no current quotas. From that point of view I would see a further opportunity arising because of enlargement. Those fishermen who have taken the initiative by making these applications should be encouraged because that is the kind of spirit we should be displaying in response to the challenge of enlargement.

Many are being forced out of the industry. The Minister knows the Spaniards export more fish than we catch.

There is no point in putting on the poor mouth. A number of Deputies mentioned unemployment, which affects every member state. This Government are very concerned about our high level of unemployment, but what can be forgotten is the European context. I want to remind the House that at the European Council the Taoiseach has continually stressed the need for concerted European action to bring about recovery that would significantly improve the employment situation. Some of our colleagues in Europe assert the primacy of national effort in combating unemployment, yet we have consistently argued the need for a Community dimension. We continue to insist that only a coordinated and determined effort at Community level will assist in the resolution of this problem in all member states.

There are some interesting developments in that area. One of the conferences I attended recently was in relation to the Eureka proposal. That is the kind of proposal of which we must see more in the Community. In a rapidly changing world, with technological change all over the globe, and in particular with the advances made in the United States and Japan, it is essential that Europe combines and co-ordinates her efforts to compete effectively. It is an outrageous situation to have a Europe where member states' combined total expenditure on research and development is twice as much as that spent in Japan and the United States and yet the results in Europe are pathetic when compared with the results in those two countries.

In relation to the Regional and Social Funds our receipts from those Funds, inadequate though they are for the problems we face, are helping us to build an economic vocational and training infrastructure that can alleviate the problem in some ways. Much valuable work has been done to combat youth unemployment through the Social Fund. We are conscious of the enormous amount which remains to be done so we will continue to strongly support the creation of further Community instruments, programmes and measures designed to combat unemployment.

A point raised by Deputy Daly was the need for financing for the Regional Fund to help with the development of harbours. At the moment the Regional Fund is helping to finance all kinds of important job creation infrastructure including the development of harbours. Over the last couple of years harbours which received assistance included Rinroe harbour and Killala harbour in Mayo, Kilronan harbour in Galway, Port Devlin and Bunbeg in Donegal and Howth harbour. We have had an allocation from the Regional Fund which has proved helpful in harbour development. The House should be aware that because of how the Regional Fund works it will not be possible to make a specific provision for harbours. Like the other member states we submit projects based on the quality of the project concerned and its place in the overall national regional development effort. I accept that better harbours are one important aspect of our effort for job creation but in the context of the way the fund works they have to be seen and presented in the overall context.

Deputy Collins suggested that we might have used the occasion of enlargement to insist on some specific compensatory measures for Ireland. This would not have been appropriate. The Deputy referred to the integrated Mediterranean programmes as a precedent and an example. The IMPS were designed to help those areas of the Community which are likely to suffer directly as a consequence of enlargement. Some areas mentioned by my constituency colleague, Deputy Sheehan, which will be directly affected are, for instance, the farmers in the South of France, Italy and Greece. The IMPS were devised to assist these areas because the agricultural products they produce will go from short supply in the Community to over supply after enlargement, going into surplus. They need to restructure their agriculture and create alternative employment opportunities outside of Mediterranean agricultural production. We are not in that position. If we had been we would obviously have been looking for similar type compensation. An important aspect of the IMPS raised by Deputy MacSharry is their effect on the other structures in Government. We were able to get an assurance from the European Council at their meeting in Brussels in March that the financing of the IMPS would not adversely affect transfer from the Structural Fund to the less prosperous areas of the Community. This valuable safeguard was subsequently written into the Community legislation governing the IMPS.

The Government missed the opportunity to get additional funds. That is the point I am making.

The Deputy can be assured that any opportunity in the Community is fully availed of by the Government. I will not comment on the performance of the last Government and I will not deal with any analogous comments either.

Referring to the Regional Fund Deputy Collins said that we need a more effective regional policy for the Community including higher levels of funding. I fully agree. Consequently in any of the Councils in which I am involved in Brussels, whether General Affairs or the Budget Council, I constantly make that point. I assure the House that my colleagues at the other Council meetings also make every effort to present this point of view in Brussels.

Another point raised during the course of the debate related to the manner of the Minister's distribution of the funding. I appreciate that direct payment to local authorities could be beneficial in terms of an increased awareness of the great benefits derived from the Regional Fund. Receipts from the Regional Fund are used to increase the overall level of resources available to finance development projects under the public capital programme. In practice the payment of Regional Fund money directly to local authorities would entail a corresponding reduction in the level of Exchequer expenditure on the public capital programme.

There is a view in response to this which suggests that direct payment to the local authorities would not bring a national financial gain. Indeed, an argument suggests that it would lead to a fragmentation of the administrative arrangements for dealing with the Regional Fund which could result in reduced efficiency. This could make it difficult for us to maintain our excellent record of drawing down promptly and in full the money available to us from the Regional Fund.

It has been claimed that there are substantial additional sums of money available from the fund which we are not taking up. This is not the case. In recent years, Ireland has been able to extract its optimum share of benefits from the fund. The most recently published reports from the European Commission for 1984 show that Ireland received more per head of population than any other member state of the Community from that fund. The amount of the funding overall is insufficient, but we must bear in mind the fact that in 1984 we received that level of support from the Community.

Deputy O'Hanlon mentioned the 1980 Special Border Areas Programme due to expire at the end of this year. It is proposed that the programme will be replaced by another Community programme for the Border areas. This is the Commission's proposal to assist us in the extension of the gas pipeline to the Border areas. This proposal which would involve increased Community aid over the 1980 level is at its final stage of discussion in Brussels. The Government are confident that the measure will be adopted by the Council in the very near future, hopefully within the next few months.

Deputy O'Donnell referred to the possibility of a programme similar to the IMPS which would be specifically designed for the north-western peripheral area of the Community. We have not seen as yet how the IMPS will operate in practice, but we will be monitoring their implementation closely to see whether they provide any lessons in the field of regional development of the future.

I am aware of and understand Deputy O'Donnell's strong interest in that aspect of Community policy. No doubt, wearing his other hat in the European Parliament, he will also follow the developments there closely. However, I make the point that in devising a programme of this kind the availability of additional financing is necessary if the operation of the programme is not simply to amount to a coordination of what is there already. That point must be borne in mind. Simple coordination of funding from existing structural funds would not really lead to any great additional advantage overall for the country.

I would like to thank Deputy Durkan for his very useful contribution last week. I checked one point which he raised, that is, the availability of funding to assist with drainage projects. I am glad to be able to confirm to him that assistance of this kind is available through the Department of Agriculture.

Deputies on both sides of the House referred to the CAP. Let me once more re-state the Government's commitment to ensuring that in any discussions on the future of the CAP in the context of both enlargement and the Commission's Green Paper on reform of the CAP, full account has been taken of our dependence on agriculture and the importance of its role in our economy. In the preliminary discussions on the Commission's Green Paper, my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, has already apprised his Community counterparts of our view that any revision of the CAP must recognise that that is a fundamental policy of the Community, one of whose objects is the maintenance of a viable rural community based on the family farm.

Deputy Treacy raised the point about our take-up of grants under Regulation 35/77 for projects relating to processing and marketing. Over the period 1978-84 grants amounting to £67.6 million have been awarded, £36 million of these have been claimed, claims for a further £7 million are with the IDA, and FEOGA aid grants amounting to £4 million have been renounced or under-claimed. This leaves approximately £20 million or 30 per cent of total grants awarded to be claimed and most of this relates to grants awarded in 1983 and 1984.

It must be said that the take-up of funds is not entirely satisfactory but it can also be said that it has improved significantly in recent years. However, it should be appreciated that many of the projects aided involve significant investment and take several years to complete. Work has commenced on most of the projects and it is expected that any outstanding grants will be claimed over the next couple of years.

During the course of the debate a number of Deputies expressed disappointment at the lack of a comprehensive Community forestry policy. There are a number of reasons why the Community has not been able to develop a common forestry policy, the primary one being that, unlike agriculture, forestry is not within the scope of the Treaty of Rome. The absence of a treaty base is compounded by the fact that a number of the larger member states are opposed to the creation of a common forestry policy.

Notwithstanding the absence of a common forestry policy, there are many individual Community action programmes and measures affecting the forestry sector. Various forestry measures have been initiated by the Commission on an ad hoc basis, for example, the forestry element of the western package in Council Regulation 1820/80 aimed at encouraging afforestation by farmers in the west. More recently discussions have taken place in the Community on proposed measures to provide forests in the Community with increased protection against fire and acid rain.

Another example is the Commission's proposal currently being considered by Council for a Community action programme regarding forestry and forest based industry. From these three examples Deputies will see that, while the Community has not yet developed a common forestry policy akin to the CAP or the Common Fisheries Policy, it is nontheless active in the forestry sector. The Government will for their part continue to encourage extension of Community activity in the area of forestry.

I take the opportunity to remind the House that in the forestry area the present Community is less than 50 per cent self-sufficient in its forestry needs. It seems to me in the context of restrictions in other areas from the point of view of land usage that there must be more usage in the forestry sector in the years to come. Certainly the grant aspects at this stage are very attractive indeed, running up to 85 per cent of the cost of developing plantations. I add my voice to those who are advocating strongly that those with surplus or marginal land should consider actively the attractiveness of these grants and join in the development of private forestry. It is sad to see us with forestry covering only about 5 per cent of our land area as opposed to over 22 per cent in Europe, and even that small proportion is made up almost totally of State forests; the figure is about 85 per cent. I see a great opening here for developments in the private area and I encourage strongly the developments in that sector and the usage of Community and national support for the development of private forests.

During his wideranging contribution Deputy McCartin took a very broad view, as one would expect from an MEP, and talked about the need for more effective decision making procedures in the enlarged Community. It is necessary for us to stand back and realise that the present decision making process was designed for a Community of six whereas we will be talking shortly about a Community of 12. The inter-governmental conference launched at the Milan Summit last June is at present considering some aspects of this complex issue. These principally are the use of qualified majority voting where this could facilitate the achievement of a single internal market, the enhancing of the role of the European Parliament and increasing the executive and management powers of the Commission.

It would not be appropriate for me to go into the question in detail now. This conference is going on and it will be resumed in Luxembourg on Monday next. However, I can tell the House that the Government are taking a positive overall approach to the work of the conference while seeking, of course, to have account taken of our reservations in certain areas of particular sensitivity to us.

A number of Deputies raised the question of the need for an adequate level of own resources in the Community. At the beginning of the debate my colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, pointed to the fact that enlargement and the increase in the Community's own resources level from 1 per cent to 1.4 per cent of the VAT base were matters that were inextricably linked. He emphasised again the Government's commitment to secure a further increase in own resources at an early date on top of the 1.4 per cent in January next. There can be no doubt about the Government's position on this. Indeed, last June, in the course of the debate on the Dooge Report, the Taoiseach clearly stated that an own resources level of 1.6 per cent of the VAT rate would itself be only a fraction of that needed to make European union a reality. Increased own resources are the key to more effective Community action in those policy areas which Deputies have highlighted, regional development and the major area of unemployment. It also applies to the development of new policies.

From the beginning of the enlargement negotiations, various Irish Governments have shared a strong political commitment in favour of the accession of Spain and Portugal. My colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in introducing the Bill said that the fundamental ideal of the Community was the enhancement of peace and liberty in Europe. Consequently, the Community's charter affirms an openness towards other European countries who wish to join it in pursuit of its objectives. The day to day economic activities of the Community with member states protecting their interests and advancing their own views often appear banal and at times, unappealing. However, we must never forget the historical context in which the Community was established and the generous and conciliatory principle which inspired its birth.

When we as a relatively underdeveloped country applied for membership of the Community, our present partners did not view this application in the narrow perspective of economic profit or loss. On the contrary, a generous response was determined by the ideals enshrined in the Treaty. It is partly as a consequence of this generosity that we now in turn extend a welcome hand to Spain and Portugal. After an aberration in their history when they were somewhat isolated and inward looking, Spain and Portugal have now resumed their rightful place in Europe. The fact that these negotiations lasted more than six years is evidence of the complex and difficult problems which had to be overcome before the integration of the economies of the member and acceding states could begin.

During this process each State negotiated in a hard-headed and determined manner for the protection of its legitimate national interests. At times, it should be said, these issues seemed intractible. However, the force of the Treaty ideal and the long term interests of the Community alway seems to be a guiding hand pointing towards a resolution. We can derive considerable satisfaction from the fact that, during these long and difficult negotiations, Irish interests were successfully protected. We can derive even more satisfaction, however, from the knowledge that the end of the process brings Spain and Portugal within the European Community.

Question put and agreed to.
Bill put through Committee, reported without amendment and passed.
Barr
Roinn