asked the Minister for Communications if he will consider convening a meeting of CIE management and unions within the next 24 hours to try to resolve the current dispute affecting Dublin city bus services and seek a return of bus services; and in the event of a failure of these talks, if he will consider the immediate introduction of a full emergency transport service to ensure that Dubliners have access to the city at this important family and shopping season.
Private Notice Question. - CIE Bus Dispute.
asked the Minister for Communications the action he proposes to take to provide a full bus service for the people of Dublin.
asked the Minister for Communications if in view of the hardship caused by the withdrawal of a large number of CIE buses in Dublin and the likehood of the situation worsening in the run up to Christmas; he will say the measures the Government intend to take to ensure CIE comply with their responsibility to provide a bus service for the people of Dublin; in particular if he will request CIE to life the suspension of a number of their drivers to enable normal services to be restored; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Under the Transport Acts, matters such as employment and conditions of employment are the responsibility of the board of Córas Iompair Éireann. As I explained to the House in the course of the Adjournment debate on 4 December, 1985, it is not my policy to intervene in functions of CIE which are by statute day-to-day matters.
In view of Government policy outlined in the White Paper, to the effect that the Government would take control over the pay and statutory conditions and terms of employment of the staffs of semi-State bodies, and in view of the indications of people who attended yesterday's Labour Court hearing that the hands of CIE management were tied, obviously by officials of the Department of Communications and by the Minister, I am annoyed by the reply of the Minister. The reason for the difficulties is that the Department of Communications are pulling the strings and clearly are not allowing the management of CIE to take action that could avoid a serious situation. Surely the Minister for Communications has an obligation to provide transport for the people of Dublin, particularly at this time of the year when traders have millions of pounds worth of stock in their city centre premises——
I regret to see Deputy Ahern, every time there is a dispute, instituting himself as a substitute Labour Court. There is ample machinery laid down and I have no intention of intervening in any way. I will draw the attention of the House to my policy since I became Minister, three years ago this week, as a result of which industrial relations in CIE have been improved greatly. So far, 1985 has been the first year since 1972 when there has not been one man day lost in CIE due to industrial action.
Since the present round of talks clearly has failed and seeing that the dispute is at a time when greatest hardship will be caused to ordinary people in the city, can the Minister not see his way to intervene? Can the Minister indicate whether reports in the newspapers last week are true that provision for an emergency service has been made? Will this go into operation if the dispute continues?
I and the Government are greatly concerned about the distress being caused to the travelling public. We will keep under active consideration ways and means of alleviating difficulties being experienced by the travelling public.
The Minister has commended CIE for the absence of strikes in the past year, but is he aware that the problem on this occasion has arisen as a result of the management's highhanded action in their attempts to introduce a feeder bus service for the DART system? Is the Minister aware also that the first people to be left without a bus service are the Tallaght-Clondalkin-Ballyfermot commuters who use the 76 bus and also those who use the 17A service to Finglas and Ballymun, neither of which services is associated in any way with the DART system? These people have been without a bus service since Sunday last. What steps does the Minister intend taking to ensure that they will have a bus service through the Christmas period?
I am aware also of the distress being caused to the travelling public especially in the Ballyfermot and Clondalkin areas but I must act in the overall and long term interest of the public. My policies to date have achieved the required results, not only in terms of the reduction in man days lost because of industrial disputes within the company, but also in terms of financial returns from CIE in the past three years after 15 years of escalating losses. I should be most surprised if Deputy Mac Giolla, of all people, did not support the Labour Court in their recommendations.
There is no question of not supporting the Labour Court. The position is that one in ten of the city buses is out of action. Before the dispute escalates further, would the Minister consider dealing directly with the representatives of the bus workers so as to explain his policy to them? This should be done as a matter of urgency so as to avoid the kind of confrontation that is likely to occur within the next few days.
As I explained to the Deputy before, I have no intention of intervening in this dispute. I consider that to be the right policy. For too long down through the years Ministers interferred in the day to day affairs of semi-State companies with disastrous results. Deputies on all sides should recognise the turn around that has been effected throughout the State sector in the past three years. As I said in a speech the other day, this is one of the great unheralded achievements of this Government. A policy which clearly is working should be continued and I intend to continue it.
The Minister intervened in everything in sight — in RTE, in Irish Shipping, in the B & I and so on.
Would the Minister accept that he has a responsibility, too, to the paying passengers who use the city bus services and can he say what action he proposes to take to fulfil that responsibility?
I have a responsibility to ensure that there is the maximum peace possible and also that the best service possible is available. All the evidence of the years is that constant intervention by Ministers is inappropriate and instead of bettering a situation only worsens it. I trust that this dispute can be settle very quickly and settled on a basis that will be satisfactory to the taxpayer, to the travelling public and to those who work in CIE as well as those who run the company.
The Minister makes great play of not intervening in semi-State companies but that is nonsense since Ministers intervene regularly in this area. Is it not the responsibility of the Minister to provide transport for working class people, people who do not have cars? How are they expected, for instance, to visit their parents or any family members who may be in hospital during the Christmas period? Does the Minister not recognise that this dispute is not a question of money but a question of security and working conditions? He should endeavour to bring the management of CIE to an understanding of these factors so that the matter may be resolved quickly.
I am somewhat puzzled at the line being adopted by Deputy Mac Giolla. Surely The Workers' Party support the labour relations machinery set up by Statute for resolving industrial disputes.
The suspensions are a different matter. They have nothing to do with the Labour Court.
Is the Deputy suggesting that I should seek to subvert Labour Court recommendations? What would the position be if the opposite were the case, if management were not accepting a Labour Court recommendation? Would the Deputy be urging me then to force the unions to accept the management line?
I recognise that the Minister appreciates that the people who will be affected most directly by this dispute are working class people who depend on public transport to go into the city, whether to work or for any of the reasons associated with Christmas. Would the Minister consider facilitating an immediate resumption of talks between the two sides so as to bring them to the table quickly with a view to arriving at a decision and then in the event of a solution not being found, to make provision for the introduction of the Government emergency services? I am not suggesting that the Minister should interfere in regard to any of the recommendations, but he might act through his own office as I suggest. The Minister for Labour to whom my question is addressed also might be able to facilitate in bringing the two sides together.
I appreciate the concern of Deputies in this matter but I must warn against being pressured into interference which can have bad effects both in the long term and in the short term. There has been a significant improvement in the past 18 months in terms of industrial relations as they affect Dublin city transport services. I suggest that this has been due to our policy of not intervening and not second guessing the procedures provided for the resolution of those disputes. I repeat that it is because of my concern for the long term welfare of those who must use public transport that I will not intervene in this dispute.