Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 23 Jan 1986

Vol. 363 No. 2

Joint Committee on Co-operation with Developing Countries: Motion.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Mr. J. O'Keeffe)

I move:

That the Joint Committee on Co-operation with Developing Countries shall be empowered to take evidence in public and to include with any report which it may make minutes of such evidence.

The House will be aware that the existing order in regard to the terms of reference imposes a serious impediment to the full and fruitful execution of the committee's labours — we are talking about giving powers to the committee to take evidence in public. Consequently, the joint committee are unable effectively to carry on their very useful work. As Minister concerned with international co-operation matters, I am concerned, naturally, that the committee should be facilitated in this respect.

I am delighted to see that the work of the committee so far has borne fruit. Their work has been outstanding and their recommendations have been on an all-party basis. The committee's activities have contributed to a much greater understanding of the issues. I have considered carefully the committee's proposals to end the existing order of reference so that they will have greater powers in regard to public evidence and the reporting thereof. Their views are consistent with mine that there should be a more realistic and balanced reporting of their views.

Mr. Lenihan

I have been critical of the proliferation of committees in recent years. I believe some of them are not working effectively, but I am glad to say the committee now being discussed fill a gap because we did not have a body with a bi-partisan approach to the development needs of disadvantaged countries. Purely for home consumption, in the past the matter of co-operation between developing countries has been thought of in mercenary terms. This issue is too big and too wide to be dealt with in that way, although there are strict economic advantages flowing from this sort of co-operation through the contacts established between donor and recipient countries: the donor country can get itself involved in projects, all of which are excellent from the economic point of view. However, the primary motivation must be wider and more idealistic. It is very important that all parties should be brought together in a committee such as this.

I am very glad that, mainly through the great efforts of the Minister, this committee are working effectively. Now that we have all Oireachtas parties working together on this committee we must do our utmost to get general public awareness of the problems facing developing countries, of the importance of aid and co-operation between countries. Recently we saw how Bob Geldof was able to trap the interest of a world audience in the huge regions and populations where circumstances are so shocking but the world in general did not have knowledge of their enormity.

Therefore, it is most important that there should be public awareness here of this. We fully support the thinking behind the Minister's purpose to extend the terms of reference of the committee. If their hearings of evidence and submissions are held in public the people of the country will appreciate the terrible problems of developing countries. The public should know that it is not a matter of giving aid per se, that there are priorities, different ways of giving aid and of promoting co-operation, different regions that require aid.

A number of decisions based on priority assessment must be made. The most important one is the type of aid to be given. I have always felt that the advice area is most helpful particularly from a country such as Ireland that does not have the financial resources to give to developing countries. We have the expertise and technical know how particularly in regard to agriculture. Traditionally we have co-operated in the area of teaching but we must now consider aid in the area of agriculture particularly in view of the fact that newly emerging countries in Africa are falling down in a disastrous way in agriculture. One of the great tragedies of newly emerging countries in the Third World is that they have opted for rapid industrialisation to the neglect of their agricultural potential. Such development depends on expertise in basic matters such as drainage, irrigation, seeding, fencing, methods of husbandry, cultivation, breeding policies and so on. In the whole area of agriculture we have an enormous amount of information and the personnel available to help those developing countries. We welcome the motion and we agree with the thrust of the Minister's comments.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I welcome the extension of the terms of reference announced by the Minister of State. This will help to highlight the problem of hunger that exists in developing countries. I do not think it has been possible to publicise the scale of the problem through our Parliament up to now. Voluntary bodies and individuals have been ahead of the Parliament in highlighting the scandalous problem that exists only a plane journey from our country. This move is welcome given the recent obscenity of the announcement of more imports of beef to the EC while there are huge mountains of beef in intervention. At the same time vast numbers of children with distended stomachs and bulging eyes go without food in other parts of the world.

I am aware of the commitment of the Minister of State to developing countries. It is good that he has come to the House to extend the terms of reference of the committee. I would like to see from that committee pressure on the Executive of the day on an all-party basis to meet UN aid targets for developing countries. We have fallen far behind in our target and even the initial target set in the Programme for Government between Fine Gael and Labour was revised downwards in the policy document, Building On Reality. That is sad, given the public support there is for aid to the Third World.

I hope that at some stage the Minister of State will find it possible to create a full-scale foreign affairs committee of the House because some of the issues to be considered by the joint committee under discussion have wider implications in other areas of foreign policy. If we do not take an interest in developing countries for altruistic reasons it would serve us well to take an interest in them for selfish reasons. We must remember that as those countries develop they have the option of either becoming open liberal type democracies such as ours or Marxist type regimes. The pressure is on a lot of them to opt for the rigid control which Marxist regimes bring. That is a terrible pity because from the beginning countries should be encouraged to develop along parliamentary lines. We have an interest in seeing the world develop in a democratic way and for selfish reasons we have an interest in ensuring the well-being of the inhabitants of developing countries. I support the motion and look forward to the public hearings of the committee.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Mr. J. O'Keeffe)

I should like to thank Members for their comments. As Deputy Lenihan pointed out, my approach is that there should be all-party consensus on development matters in the Oireachtas. That was one of my objectives when I proposed the establishment of a Joint Oireachtas committee. We are also ad idem on what should be our primary motivation for involving ourselves in assistance to Third World countries. Clearly that motivation must be humanitarian and idealistic but it is proper to point out that there are economic benefits and spin-offs. In fact, those benefits are far greater than many people realise. I am not one of those who say that we should shun such spin-offs, quite the contrary, provided we still retain the essential primary motivation for involvement as being humanitarian and idealistic.

It is important that the efforts which have improved over the years are maintained and improved further in the years ahead. In that regard the point made by Deputy Mitchell is on the button. In the years ahead, whatever Executive is in power, I can see the Joint Oireachtas Committee having a role to play.

The House will be aware that development co-operation has two main focuses, on relief and development. The relief aspect captures public attention most dramatically. The House, and the public, are aware of the grim spectre of famine stalking the lands of Africa last year. I would like to be in a position to report to the House that the position will be better in 1986 but already there are assessments from Ethiopia, the Sudan, Somalia and other countries that there could be a repetition. At official level, and on the part of the public, I will be seeking the same generous response as that given to the crisis which developed in Africa last year.

The area of activity which has a lower public profile but from the point of view of a long term solution is at least as important, is the development aspect. Essentially, we have to aim to help those countries to become self-sufficient. Ultimately, that is the solution to the problem. It is in that context that the development aspect of our programmes is of such great relevance. As Deputy Lenihan pointed out, there is a major concentration in the official effort on technical assistance and I envisage that emphasis continuing.

Deputy Mitchell mentioned the question of the UN target and I am glad to say that from a very low base progress has been made, continues to be made and, I hope, will continue in the years ahead. It is relevant to point out that in 1974, when the bilateral aid programme was first established, the entire development assistance funding at official level was £1.5 million. When I first came into office in 1981 the figure was £18 million. Under the national plan the figure this year will be in the order of £44 million and it is proposed to increase it to £50 million in 1987. While we must continue to seek to make progress in monetary terms and in relation to the percentage of GNP, we should realise that the last decade has shown an improvement and an increase virtually every year.

I am glad that this motion has received the support of all parties. I reiterate my compliments to the committee under the capable chairmanship of Deputy Nora Owen and I hope it will continue to make as effective a contribution in future under its expanded terms of reference.

Question put and agreed to.