asked the Minister for Agriculture if it is proposed to increase the maximum threshold from off-farm income above £6,400 in respect of grants under the western package.
19.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Off-farm Income Threshold.
3.
asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will review the payment of grant-aid for people with off-farm income; and if he will increase such grant-aid.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 19 together. It is not possible in the current difficult Exchequer situation to abolish or raise the off-farm income limit of £6,400 under the disadvantaged area schemes. The cost of abolition to the Exchequer would be almost £6 million in a full year before EC recoupment. The off-farm income criterion under the on-farm investment element of the western package is laid down by the EC and is that on applicant may not derive more than 50 per cent of his total income from off-farm employment.
(Limerick West): What figure did the Minister give as regards the increased cost if it was made available to non-farmers?
50 per cent.
(Limerick West): A 50 per cent increase?
We are at crosspurposes. I am saying that about 50 per cent of his total income under the western package must come from his farming.
(Limerick West): The Minister gave a figure earlier of what it would cost the Exchequer before it would be recouped.
If the ceiling on off-farm income was to be removed, it would cost £6 million in a full year.
(Limerick West): In view of the insignificant amount — insignificant——
What is £6 million?
(Limerick West):——in the reduced overall budget for agriculture — would the Minister not consider that this would be £6 million well worth spending as 50 per cent of it would be recouped from the EC? Would it be possible, under the present price review, for the Minister to consider seeking to have this obstacle removed — where 50 per cent of the farmers off-farm income must come from agriculture?
There are two questions there. First of all, the question of the "insignificant" amount of £6 million. It is a very significant sum and always has been. The problem as the Deputy would be fully aware——
(Limerick West): We are talking about only £3 million as regards the Exchequer.
£6 million must be found first before there is the recoupment to the State the following year. Leaving that aside, one of the problems is that this was brought in initially as a supplementary income. It was basically to keep people on the land in the severely handicapped areas. The resources made available at that time were to be divided amongst people most in need.
When one talks about an off farm income after that, one is talking about equity and then one arrives at a typical case where there might be an off farm income of £15,000 or £16,000 coming on to a farm, and a farm of similar size in the same area must survive on farm income alone. There is obviously a case for equity there. Successive Governments have agreed that there must be an off farm income limit. If one were to abolish the off farm income limit people currently in receipt of various headages would get less. It is against that background that the Government increased the limit from £3,500 to £6,400 last year. It is entirely a matter for the Exchequer after that.
Would the Minister not agree that over the ten year period of the western package it is proposed to spend £300 million and that in the first five years we have only spent £103 million? Would the Minister not agree that it is one of the weaknesses of that scheme that it could not be adjusted under the one heading and there had to be three or four different headings and that there was a very small take up of the scheme?
The proviso from Brussels on this issue means that the principal aim of the EC Commission is to channel the aid in so far as is possible to full time farmers. That has affected all the EC countries involved. Because of our problems with part time farming and its importance, we wished to ensure that the people farming small acreages, but who had to take an off farm job in order to survive would be catered for and we believed that a limit of £6,400 would be reasonable in the circumstances. As Deputy Leonard mentioned, the 50 per cent total income criteria are an EC stipulation. That is a stipulation we would like to avoid, but everybody in the Commission is adamant that the greatest percentage of resources should go to full time farmers.
I will allow a short relevant supplementary question from Deputy Treacy and Deputy Kitt.
In relation to off farm income are social welfare payments categorised under small holders assistance or pensions? Could the Minister also say if there is a distinction between the way off farm income is calculated for social welfare payments under the western package as distinct from the feed voucher scheme where the off farm limit applies?
There is no difference between the feed voucher scheme and the various headage payments. They were all calculated on the basis of a £6,400 ceiling. The question of social welfare is not taken into account in so far as the calculation of the headage ceiling for farm income is concerned.
What about the western package?
No.
Can we take it that a person deriving 50 per cent or more of his income from agriculture will qualify for a grant irrespective of whether he spends 50 per cent or less of his time on the farm?
It must be 50 per cent of time and income.
The Minister did not say that the first time.
I should have.
Could the Minister remove his time element? The Minister will accept that people getting off farm income are investing it in agriculture. In order to stimulate them to do so, will the Minister remove the time factor?
This was discussed all last summer in Brussels in an effort to do something about it but they were extremely sticky on that issue.
Can the Minister get them to keep their hands off?
(Interruptions.)
Order please, Deputy Treacy.
(Limerick West): In view of the importance of part time farming and off farm income to many farmers along the western seaboard where it is necessary to have another job to survive, will the Minister reconsider his decision? Will the Minister agree that more often than not off farm income is ploughed back into the land to the benefit of agriculture?
I do not disagree with Deputy Noonan. The EC Commission should be more lenient on part time farming but there is little sympathy from our EC partners on this.
(Limerick West): It only affects this country and that is why I am asking the Minister to do something about it.
We have been trying for so long to do something, particularly this year because of the western package but there is little sympathy for us.