Deputy Spring gave me notice of his intention to raise the position of the Outdoor Education Centre, Cappanalea, County Kerry. He has 20 minutes to make his case.
Adjournment Debate. - Kerry Outdoor Education Centre.
I should like to express my gratitude to you for allowing me to raise this matter because it is time it was brought to the attention of the Minister with responsibility for sport and his ministerial colleagues. I will use 15 minutes of the time allotted to me and Deputy Foley and Deputy O'Donoghue may also wish to lend their voices to the case I will be making. I am glad to share my time with them and I trust that, as they are Government Deputies, they will lean on the Minister and his senior colleagues who hold the purse strings to ensure that funding is provided for this very important centre.
It is necessary to outline to the House in some detail the history of the Outdoor Education Centre in Cappanalea, situated a number of miles from Killorglin, County Kerry. A local committee was set up in the seventies and the infrastructure for the facility was built with grant-aid from the Department of Education to Kerry Vocational Education Committee in 1981. The site was originally developed for outdoor education by the Killorglin community council in 1973 and the association for adventure sports have also been involved in the development from the beginning.
The centre, which I visited on a number of occasions, provides full catering and residential facilities for incoming groups who wish to follow a programme of outdoor education. It can accommodate up to 40 students in dormitory style rooms with facilities to cater for mixed groups, separate shower and toilet blocks and a drying room for wet clothes. It is an excellent facility which, in recent times, has run into a number of difficulties notwithstanding the enormous efforts made by the VEC in County Kerry, the manager and staff. The education committee in County Kerry are indeed fortunate to have such excellent management and staff in the Outdoor Education Centre. Despite enormous difficulties in security in terms of tenure of employment which have been over their heads for the past two years, the staff under the management of Mr. O'Dowd, have persisted in staying on and working at times on a voluntary basis to ensure that there is continuity and that a basic educational facility is maintained and developed.
The wide range of programmes which have been developed and piloted are a credit to the centre. Within the educational sphere, progress has concentrated on a number of programmes such as the development and implementation of an outdoor education awards scheme, the development of an outdoor education module for school based vocational preparation training courses in post-primary schools and the development of an outdoor education module for community youth training programmes under the auspices of AnCO. In co-operation with the Department of Education, there is also a fully sanctioned in-service teacher-training course in integrated studies, including physical education, biology and geography.
An external AnCO training course has also been initiated concentrating on the training of sports and leisure officers, the implementation for third level physical education students from Thomond College of an outdoor education module in practical work experience and the writing and compiling of a practical field studies manual, which was a student publication earlier this year and was distributed on a national level to teachers and students. An official meteorological station was established at Cappanalea and there was also a programme of North-South exchange programmes with youth clubs from the Southern Education Library Board and from County Kerry on an exchange basis.
To mark International Youth Year, Cappanalea Outdoor Education Centre, in conjunction with the Sports Council for Northern Ireland, ran a major Ireland end to end project which was very successful. The inclusion of adventure sports and extended physical education programmes in many schools throughout the country, in conjunction with Cappanalea, and the facilitating of schools with outdoor education programmes who are following the alternative leaving certificate syllabus, put Cappanalea on the map as a very important outdoor education centre. Usage has been very high all through the year and the annual total for student usage is now in the region of 8,375 student days. A total of 7,234 student days was accumulated during 1985 and, of this figure, 3,945 student days were made up by school usage. Indeed, school usage accounts for the greatest proportion of Cappanalea's work.
During 1985, on 85 per cent of the days of the year the centre was occupied by various groups. Those attending courses at the centre comprised different groups and individuals, State, private and voluntary organisations. As I said at the outset, there is uncertainty over the future of Cappanalea. The amount of money required is minimal. The chief executive officer of the vocational education committee in County Kerry who has put an enormous amount of his personal time into the establishment and development of the centre informed me as late as yesterday that a sum in the region of £40,000 is the amount required by the VEC in County Kerry to ensure that the jobs are saved in the centre. In the absence of that kind of money in 1987, the uncertainty now hanging over the centre will lead to its ultimate closure.
I know the Minister is committed to leisure centres and all active forms of sport, outdoor and indoor. It would be a very sad day, not just for County Kerry and the people who have given their time voluntarily, but for the country as a whole if the centre closed especially in the context of North-South relations, given that the centre has had good usage by pupils and teaching groups from Northern Ireland. It would be a disaster if the centre was allowed to close because of the lack of a paltry sum of £40,000 for current expenditure.
Since 1973 the local committee in Killorglin — I am sure my colleagues from County Kerry know these people well — have made great efforts in acquiring the very valuable site backing on to Caragh Lake, an area of outstanding scenic beauty and it is very important that those people are not let down by the Government. I am glad to share my time with colleagues from another party because this issue transcends politics in County Kerry. Given the support, the amount of correspondence and lobbying for this centre which has been forthcoming, not just from voters and those in jobs, but from the many young people throughout the county who have had the opportunity to use these facilities, urging that the centre should be allowed to grow and prosper, it would be a sad day's work if the Government are not in a position to save it. In the course of Government discussions last year — I am sure the Minister has this on file and it was confirmed by a senior official in the Department of Education to the chief executive officer of the Kerry Vocational Education Committee — it was agreed that funds would be provided for 1987. This was confirmation of a decision which I had made in Government that funds would be provided from the national lottery. That was at a time when the forecasts of the receipts, revenue and profits from the national lottery suggested they would be quite minimal. Now, as most of us in this House are aware, the expectations and conservative estimates which were originally forecast for the national lottery have been exceeded. To date, a sum in the region of £21 million has been expended on the national lottery.
The Minister with responsibility for Sport in order to maintain his bona fides before this House and the many people on whose behalf I am speaking this evening should give a commitment that the funds will be provided in the course of 1987. As I said, it will be a tragedy if the meagre sum of £40,000, in the context of the Estimates, is not provided especially in view of the fact that the receipts and profits of the national lottery are now far exceeding the original expectations and forecasts.
This centre is of enormous importance not just on a local basis but in the context of outdoor education. It offers facilities for secondary school and university students and for teacher in-training courses in relation to botany and related matters at a time when there is great concern at all levels in regard to leisure time activities and the pursuits which can be made available. This is a particular activity centre that can be made available to the public at minimal cost, it provides supervised training and a very solid track record has been built up during the past six to seven years in particular. The resilience of the staff of this outdoor pursuit centre has been tested on many occasions. I can say for the benefit of the Minister and the House that this issue transcends political affiliations and beliefs. It is an issue which affects most school children at secondary school level in County Kerry and far beyond the boundaries of County Kerry.
During the past 12 months it is an issue on which there has been unanimity in the Fianna Fáil Party, Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party at local level. It was under enormous pressure in the course of the past 12 months that I had accepted by my colleagues in Government that funds would be provided from the national lottery. I am making the case to the Minister with responsibility for Sport that he should give a commitment. He cannot in any way seek to challenge the bona fides of this centre or those of the County Kerry Vocational Education Committee or of the individuals in the vicinity of Killorglin in County Kerry who have given of their own time and money since 1973 to build what I would regard as probably the premier outdoor education centre in the country. Strictly speaking, if the public finances were to permit, it should be taken within the ambit of the Department of Education or the Department of Labour and certainly within the ambit of the Minister with responsibility for Sport.
There is no one in this House at this stage who is not reasonably familiar with certain difficulties and constraints. That is why I particularly welcome the contributions which will be made by my fellow Members in County Kerry, Deputies Foley and O'Donoghue. The people of Kerry will be looking to them as members of the Government party. I was expected to deliver enough by day and by night during the past four years. This perhaps is a small test for my colleagues. A small sum of money is required. They know where the office of the Minister is and it would be a sign of their bona fides. During the general election campaign the Progressive Democrat candidate who was totally opposed to public expenditure wondered why the then Tánaiste was not delivering this money at an earlier date.
I urge the Minister to give us a commitment. It is not an unrealistic sum. It is a sum which will be seen as a token of gratitude to the many people in both the County Kerry Vocational Education Committee and the local voluntary organisations. It is a very worthwhile cause, one which has the support of all the political parties in County Kerry.
At the outset, I wish to thank my colleague, Deputy Spring, for allowing me some of his time on this very important issue. Deputy Spring has outlined in detail the history of Cappanalea and I do not propose to be repetitive. While speaking recently during the budget debate I made reference to Cappanalea outdoor pursuit centre which is due to close within a few weeks due to the lack of funding. Ten people are employed in this centre, comprising eight instructors, a manager and a caretaker. They work as a team and each of them puts in many long hours outside of their normal duty.
A feature of the centre is that income has increased steadily since it was opened in 1985. In 1985, the first year of operation, it had an income of approximately £20,000. In 1986, this sum had increased to £30,000 and the target for 1987 is £40,000. This small band of workers are quite confident of achieving that figure. With the overall cost in the region of £80,000 there is a shortfall of £40,000. Deputy Spring has dealt in detail with 1985 and I would like to give some figures for 1986.
The centre was used for approximately 8,500 hours broken down as follows: school usage accounted for 52 per cent, youth groups approximately 32 per cent and adult groups 16 per cent. This involved a total of 4,590 people utilising the centre in 1986. A feature, as in 1985, is the number of youth clubs from the North who took part in courses at the centre. I am sure that helped in no small way as regards relationships between the North and the South.
Prior to Christmas, Cappanalea had received a commitment from Cospóir for approximately £60,000. This had the approval of the then Coalition Government but that commitment has now been withdrawn by Cospóir. For this reason, I endorse the plea of my colleague, Deputy Spring, as I have no doubt will Deputy John O'Donoghue. I should like to see a commitment given that funds from the national lottery would be provided for this worthwhile project. Cappanalea is going to command much wider recognition and there is no doubt we cannot afford to lose this venture for the paltry sum of £40,000.
At the outset, I would like to thank the Minister for allowing me some of his time. The Cappanalea outdoor recreation centre is unique. Mind you, it is not the only thing which is unique to County Kerry but it is unique in this country. It has made an enormous contribution to the youth of County Kerry, of Munster and of Ireland. The Minister is presented with the opportunity of making a significant and worthwhile contribution to the young people of Ireland. The closure of this centre which is so close to the hearts and minds of so many young people would be a tragedy because, as its own brochure says, it is a beacon on a hill which has been lit and nurtured for a purpose. That purpose has not yet been realised. It would be most unfortunate if that light were to be quenched as it commences to glow.
I hesitate to interrupt the Deputy but may I ask the Minister if he is conceding some time to the Deputy?
Approximately how much time?
Approximately five minutes.
That will be sufficient. In 1984, an expert on outdoor education, Neville Crowther, said:
Outdoor education is not a subject but an approach to education. Experts have stated that there are good indications that access to testing and stretching programmes of outdoor activity, group and individual, in a supportive and well organised milieu does much to influence positively those aspects of personal development of the young person which are generally beyond the reach of the classroom and school environment. Its initiatives in North-South joint ventures can surely blossom into an acceptance of the children of Ireland playing and discovering together the many worthwhile pursuits which have a common place in all their hearts.
The centre is fully booked out for virtually 12 months of the year. It does not distinguish between the classes; it does not distinguish between the creeds; it does not distinguish. It is a uniting force in a society which is all too often divided and has potential which outweighs even this. It has the capacity to teach people to learn values, principles and ideals that cannot be taught in the confines of a classroom or a school yard.
It is fair to say at this stage that it is more advisable, more praiseworthy and more sensible to spend the small amount of money required to keep this centre open on outdoor pursuits, rather than having some of these young people getting into trouble in cities and larger towns. The paying out of sums of money required to keep the centre open must be balanced against the cost of their detention in institutions around this country. Outdoor education, because it presents opportunities rather than coerces, is a carrot rather than a stick.
Cappanalea is where Irish tourism should be travelling to. It opens up the great outdoors to the young and to travellers to the country. It inspires and instils the spirit of freedom and appreciation of our country. It is a gem in the crown of the Kingdom of Kerry, which would be all the poorer without it. I thank the Minister for saying he will come to visit Cappanalea to see for himself.
He might send a cheque.
First, I should like to thank the Deputies for raising this issue and for the way in which they have presented their case. I concur almost completely with everything that has been said, in particular with the positive way in which Cappanalea has been portrayed here this evening. This Outdoor Education Centre was developed by Kerry Vocational Education Committee with assistance from my Department which provided a grant of £56,000 under the national programme for the provision of recreational facilities. In addition, we have provided over £81,000 in the years since the centre was first developed in 1981.
As Deputies are aware, this is only one of eight Outdoor Education Centres throughout the country which are in a similar situation, having been established with the assistance of capital grant-aid from my Department. Two further education centres have been developed without direct capital grant-aid from my Department. In addition, vocational education committees in six other areas have sought sanction to develop such centres. While the case for Cappanalea cannot therefore be taken in isolation, I am very much aware of the problems which have beset the centre over the past few years.
Due to the embargo on the creation of new posts in the Civil Service, it has not been possible for additional staff resources to be provided for Outdoor Education Centres. Redeployment of existing VEC resources to provide the necessary staff has not proved possible, either. My understanding of the present position in relation to staffing in Cappanalea is that there are nine staff at present employed in the centre on a temporary basis. The manager and caretaker have for some time been paid out of the general VEC fund. The secretary and instructors were recruited initially under the Department of Labour Teamwork scheme for the provision of temporary employment for young people. This non-continuous type of employment was not satisfactory to the VEC and their insurers. Therefore, in March 1986 the VEC decided to retain the existing team workers at Teamwork pay rates and pay them on a temporary basis from VEC funds. I am aware that the VEC have now intimated that it is no longer possible for them to fund this staff and hence this difficulty arises.
Arising from the undertaking to which Deputy Spring referred, by the previous Government on 23 December 1986 — and I must say, they left it quite close to Christmas — that funding would be provided from the national lottery for Cappanalea Outdoor Education Centre, a submission was made by my predecessor, the former Minister with responsibility for Sport, to the Minister for Finance on 19 January 1987, requesting funding for Outdoor Education Centres including Cappanalea from the national lottery. The approval of the former Minister for Finance to this proposal had not been given, however on the change of Government on 10 March 1987. The position, therefore, is that while an undertaking was given by the former Government in favour of Cappanalea, this was subject to the agreement of the Minister for Finance.
I could perhaps refer further to a number of other undertakings which were made by the previous Government in those heady days leading up to the election. My total calculation comes to a promise of an expenditure of approximately £8 million from the proceeds of the national lottery, even though the estimated proceeds at that stage were only £5.5 million. It is not correct for Deputy Spring to say that approval had been given. The Minister for Finance failed to respond to the request for finance from our Department for the funding of those centres. Approval in principle had been given for this and many other projects.
On a point of information, as we seem to be getting into a factual debate, would the Minister confirm or deny that a senior official in the Department of Education confirmed on 27 January to the CEO of County Kerry that the money would, in fact, be provided in the Estimates for 1987?
I am not aware of any decisions or any information given other than what is recorded.
That should be recorded.
As Deputy Spring is well aware, the only decisions I am interested in are those clearly made through the proper channels. I have a memorandum in front of me requesting the Minister for Finance to approve finance for this centre and that memorandum was not responded to before the Government, of which Deputy Spring was a member, left office on 10 March 1987. However, we will not get on to that topic. I wanted to set the record straight.
Can the Government give us the money?
The problem with regard to Cappanalea is not a new one. The staffing problem goes back to the establishment of the centre. The previous Government had ample time to resolve the issue when they were in office. I am at present examining the position as a matter of urgency.
Hear, hear.
It is my intention to do my utmost to ensure that outdoor education can be developed in Ireland, despite the critical state of the public finances which demanded the implementation of a staff embargo in the public service. In that regard, I have already had two meetings with my colleagues, Deputy Foley, Deputy O'Donoghue and Deputy O'Leary, at which they made a very strong case to me——
Did the Minister say yes or no to them?
——on the future of Cappanalea. The case is one with which I cannot argue. I am very impressed with the job that has been done there, as I am with the other education centres. Clearly, I am determined to secure their future. The education centres generate considerable income towards their running costs at present.
Will the Minister bring his remarks to a close?
Will the Government give us a commitment before leaving the House tonight?
I am impressed with the income generated by Cappanalea. If the education centres can perhaps be more effectively marketed, a strong case can be made for using resources generated from the profits of the national lottery to invest in contributing towards staffing and other costs in those centres. I propose to consider very carefully making the necessary finance available, within the constraints that are upon me, for the continuation of all eight centres including Cappanalea.
Hear, hear.
The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 29 April 1987.