Vol. 378 No. 4
It is proposed to take items Nos. 4, 5, 6, 14, 15, 7, 16, 8 and 17. It is also proposed that item No. 4 be taken without debate.
It is further proposed that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. and that business shall be interrupted at 10 p.m. this evening.
It is further proposed that, at the conclusion of business today, the Dáil shall adjourn until 3 p.m. on Friday, 26 February 1988. Private Members' Business shall be No. 36.
Is it agreed to take item No. 4 without debate?
Agreed.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Deputy Quinn on item No. 4.
No, Sir, on item No. 45.
Deputy Quinn, I am putting a question in respect of the Order of Business. You may not interrupt unless it is relevant to that subject.
A Cheann Comhairle, I do not want to have a repetition of what happened yesterday. I am, as always, entirely in your hands.
Therefore, I should like you to indicate to me when it would be in order for me to raise the matter of the inclusion of item No. 45 before the Order of Business, in its amended form, is agreed by the House. Naturally I will abide by your ruling.
It is a matter that cannot be moved in Government time. The Deputy will have to find some other ways or means of raising that matter.
I understand, Sir, that——
If the Deputy is determined to disrupt the business of the House we might as well deal with it now and get it over with.
Might I suggest to Deputy Quinn, if it will assist him, that he might consult me in my office in respect of that matter.
I appreciate that offer, Sir, but, in accepting it I might draw your attention to the fact that there are seven sitting days only allowed within which this matter can be dealt with within the rules of this House——
We have had this before, Deputy.
It is for that reason that I am persisting today because the next and last day on which this matter can be legally raised is the day on which President Mitterrand will be here and I do not propose to disrupt the business of the House. Therefore, I am really at your mercy in relation to this matter. This is, in fact, the last day——
I am prepared to discuss the matter with the Deputy later today.
I want this House, Sir, to have an opportunity to exercise its democratic rights, to have an opportunity to annul this matter——
The Chair is proceeding with the Order of Business, as is usual, this morning. I appeal to the Deputy not to disrupt it. I am prepared to assist him to the utmost of my ability if he will discuss the matter with me.
Naturally I will do that but I would suggest that between now and 10.50 a.m. this House will have to take a decision finally on this matter. When I propose to move the motion in my name and that of the remainder of my colleagues in the Labour Party I want to be in order unlike the position that attained yesterday when you deemed I was not. I think I am in order at this point in raising the matter and, within the practical——
Deputy, in fact you are not in order in raising it in this fashion.
Well, Sir——
I have tolerated your interventions.
I wish to raise it before you, Sir, deem the matter to be closed and that I am then late in so raising it. That is why I am not waiting.
On a point of order, might I seek clarification from you, Sir, on a very simple matter to avoid further acrimony in relation to the Order of Business, as has been listed? Everybody in this House wants RTE to cover the very important visit of His Excellency, President Francois Mitterrand, to this House. But are you not putting it to us that, if we agree to that, we have to agree to this entire package of succeeding listed items as well? It seems quite unfair.
I am putting three separate matters to the House. I shall be putting the matter to which the Deputy referred specifically to the House.
In separate votes?
Separately.
Do I conclude therefore that, when those three separate items — which alter the normal Order of Business — have been agreed by this House, as presumably they will, an attempt to raise any other matter by way of motion would be deemed to be out of order?
The Deputy simply cannot move a Private Members' Motion in Government time.
Naturally I will accept your ruling on this matter but, if that is the case, we are engaged in some kind of democratic farce because the suggestion that this House can annul within seven sitting days the establishment of this unit is really a piece of democratic nonsense. Perhaps we should meet, sir, to tidy up the rules of this House with the assistance of the Taoiseach.
The Deputy did not do his business properly; he messed up his business; that is what happened.
Deputy Quinn, I want to assist you as best I can but I want to proceed with the Order of Business this morning. I take it, it is agreed to take item No. 4 without debate, that is, the broadcasting of Friday's joint sitting?
Agreed.
Agreed.
Is it further agreed that the House shall sit later than 9 p.m. this evening and that business shall be interrupted at 10 p.m. this evening? Agreed.
Is it further agreed that, at the conclusion of business today, the Dáil shall adjourn until 3 p.m. on Friday next?
Reluctantly.
Do I hear dissenting voices?
Not agreed.
I am putting the question formally: "That at the conclusion of business today, the Dáil shall adjourn until 3 p.m. on Friday, 26 February 1988."
On the Order of Business, I should like to ask the Taoiseach if he has come to a conclusion on the request I made yesterday that time be given to allow us to examine some aspect of the Garda inquiry into the shooting of Aidan McAnespie at Aughnacloy.
I have, yes. There are questions down to me which will be taken next Tuesday and I propose to make a fairly substantial statement in reply to those questions. The factors which influence me in that are, first of all, there is a meeting of the Anglo-Irish Conference today in Dublin and I would like to wait until that has concluded before making a statement to the House because there may be up-to-date information that I can give, and, furthermore, other developments are expected today in regard to the matter.
I notice that, unfortunately, the Minister for Education has departed from the Chamber but I should like to ask the Taoiseach, and or the Minister for Education, to confirm that despite the solemn assurances given in the House to the Sisters of Mercy and to the public that Carysfort College would remain open as an education institution the Sisters have been forced to demand vacant possession of the college.
That is not a matter for the Order of Business.
When the party opposite mislead the House and are in contempt of the House what channel do I have to raise that? It is extremely difficult for me to do so.
There are ample avenues of approach for raising such matters.
On the Adjournment I should like to raise the threatened loss to the taxpayers of the education facilities at Carysfort College and the failure of the Minister for Education to provide alternative employment for the staff.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to ask the Taoiseach if he is aware, as I am sure he is, of the proposed demolition by the Mater Hospital of three listed buildings in Eccles Street?
That is not a matter for the Order of Business.
I want to raise with the Taoiseach the question of An Bord Glas. Last year it was launched in a blaze of publicity and it was indicated that legislation would be introduced in connection with it. An interim board was set up. Apparently the main requirement for the board members was cumann membership. Nothing has happened since. Has the Minister accepted the logic whereby the functions of the board should be integrated with those of the new body or does he intend going ahead with legislation? If so, when?
We certainly intend to go ahead with legislation. If the Deputy looked at it reasonably and dispassionately he would agree with the procedure we are following. Pending the legislation, we have an interim board in place which is doing excellent work and it is on the basis of the experience of the working of that interim board that we can bring forward adequate and suitable legislation. It will almost certainly be introduced next session.
Do I take it the Taoiseach wants the present situation to continue before he comes to a final decision on whether legislation will be introduced?
The Deputy never listens to what I say to him. I said that legislation will almost certainly be introduced next session.
I seek further clarification of the Taoiseach's reply to Deputy Duke's question. There is unprecedented anxiety and concern about aspects of Anglo-Irish relations. Do I take it there will be an opportunity next week to discuss matters which are being dealt with by the Anglo-Irish Conference today and issues related to present tensions and difficulties? Will there be a series of statements which will afford the House an opportunity of expressing its concern at the trend of events?
The first step for me will be to deal with the questions and to give as much information as I can by way of a fairly substantive reply to those questions. Then we can see what happens after that.
May I ask——
This must not lead to argument.
Will the release of the British soldier be an item appropriate for those discussions? Will the Order of Business next week facilitate that kind of discussion? These are matters of serious concern.
I would intend to try to cover all appropriate aspects.
May I ask the Taoiseach when the Bill which has been causing problems between his Minister for Justice and his Minister for Defence will be published and brought before this House? I think it might trade under the name Shannon Estuarial Bill or a name to that effect.
The Minister for Defence is under close surveillance.
The legislation will almost certainly be brought forward next session.
A busy session.
When will we have copies of the Social Welfare Bill which the Taoiseach expects to be enacted before Easter? Is it intended to have more than one Social Welfare Bill? If so, when will legislation be introduced in relation to the transfer of disability payments to employers?
The Social Welfare Bill is imminent.
The Taoiseach said that three weeks ago.
I am not sure whether it will be today or tomorrow but it is a matter of hours rather than days. The other matter will very likely be brought forward, if not in this session certainly in the next session.
Do I take it from what the Taoiseach has said that the Government have abandoned their plan to transfer payment of disability benefit to employers in April?
No. The situation is still under active consideration. The Deputy understands that it is quite complex and I will let him have information as soon as possible.
Could I ask——
A number of Deputies are offering and I am anxious to facilitate them. No one Deputy can take up an unfair share of time. Deputy Seán Barrett is offering.
I wish to try again to raise on the Adjournment the problem at St. Brigid's School, Foxrock, in relation to the condition of the prefabricated buildings which are in a dangerous condition and to ask the Minister for Education when it is proposed to proceed with phase two of the new school in Cabinteely. I act on behalf of the Deputies in the constituency.
I am aware of the Deputy's concern and I will communicate with him on the matter.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the working conditions of temporary staff employed on a seasonal basis in the Passport Office.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I wish to raise a matter which I brought up yesterday with the Taoiseach and to which he failed to respond adequately. I asked when we would have the Children (Care and Protection) Bill before us and he replied that it was with the parliamentary draftsman. We accepted that as an adequate reply last November but three months later it is not adequate. Can he give any indication as to when the Government intend to bring this Bill before the House, given that other legislation has been passing it out at the rate of about one Bill per week?
I made the factual statement yesterday that the Bill is with the parliamentary draftsman and I have nothing further to add at this stage.
(Limerick East): When will the Finance Bill be published?
We hope to have the Bill published on Friday, 8 April and brought before the Dáil for Second Stage on 19 April and thereafter.
I refer to Item No. 24, the Building Control Bill. Having regard to the comments the Taoiseach has made about other legislation which it is hoped to have published and completed, it seems probable that it is not the Government's intention to take Committee Stage of this Bill during this session. If that is the case, will he again consider the possibility of setting up a special committee of the House to discuss this nonpolitical matter? It is essentially a technical matter. It has been going on for three or four years and there are severe difficulties in terms of interpretation between different local authorities in the application of by-laws. I urge the Taoiseach and the Minister for the Environment to consider setting up a select committee. On behalf of the Labour Party, I can say we would agree to a voting procedure which would in no way embarrass the Government of the day. That is not our intent. I know it is a worry in relation to committees.
The matter is being actively discussed by the Whips and I hope they will come to a conclusion as soon as possible.
I appreciate that. I spoke to my own Whip about it.
That is a help. I would point out to the Deputy that the procedure he followed this morning was in contradiction with what had been agreed with his Whip.
I am not so sure that it was.
If the Fine Gael Whip abstains, is that all right?
Deputy Howlin cannot keep his word.
There must be finality on this matter. I have afforded Deputy Quinn every opportunity.
Is it the Government's intention to take Committee Stage of this Bill during this session?
I have given the reply. The matter is being discussed with the Whips.
Has the Taoiseach a programme of sittings between now and Easter and is it planned to sit in the week of St. Patrick's Day and in Holy Week? It is necessary to know in order to ascertain what time is available for legislation.
The programme of business in this House is discussed between the Whips. Most of the Whips keep to the arrangements decided on between them. Sometimes it does not happen, unfortunately. Without taking from the prerogatives of the Whips, I think I can assure the Deputy that we will not sit on St. Patrick's Day.
What about that week? Will we be sitting on the Tuesday and Wednesday?
We must move on to the business of the day.
I have been seeking to raise for the last few weeks the matter of the killing of Palestinians by Israeli security forces.
I am aware of that and I will communicate with the Deputy.
