asked the Minister for Labour if, having regard to the recent experience of the City of Cork Vocational Education Committee, he has satisfied himself that the standards and criteria employed by FÁS in regard to assessing tenders for courses run by FÁS external training division are entirely fair; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - FÁS Courses.
36.
My policy in relation to FÁS external contracts is that the educational system, including the VECs, should have a first option in relation to such contracts. This policy was stated in the guidelines which my Department issued to FÁS earlier this year.
The basis of FÁS sub-contracting to the educational system for 1987-88 was agreed by the Departments of Education and Labour and their agencies in November, 1987. The main elements in the arrangements are:
(i) measures to ensure educational authorities have the opportunity to tender for courses in which they are interested;
(ii) special simplified provisions regarding the type of tender to be submitted by educational bodies
(iii) automatic acceptance of a tender provided it meets FÁS requirements on quality, placement rates, cost effectiveness, including prices and delivery.
The arrangements also provide for a mechanism for the resolution of any disagreements on its operation. As regards the specific case of the City of Cork Vocational Education Committee, the contract was entered into by FÁS as part of their day-to-day activities. I am sure that FÁS would be prepared to discuss the case with the Deputy.
The policies and the conditions for FÁS sub-contracting to the educational system during 1988-89 will be reviewed later this year. Any suggestions by the Deputy would be taken into account in that review.
I welcome the Minister's statement to the effect that FÁS are now prepared to discuss this matter with me. Is the Minister aware of the widespread concern in Cork, even among members of his own party, at the way those contracts were awarded? Is the Minister aware that in a recent case the tenders submitted by the City of Cork VEC for external training courses were rejected on very dubious grounds? Is the Minister aware that although the City of Cork VEC and I requested information about this we have failed to get any details to enable us to make a comparison or learn why the contracts were awarded to outside bodies?
I have seen reports of the difficulties which the Cork VEC find themselves in. There have been difficulties in that area for a number of years. A former Minister of State arranged for co-operation and co-ordination between Education and the awarding of contracts by FÁS. Those arrangements were changed last autumn. I suggest that if Cork VEC are not satisfied with the way those arrangements are working they should enter into discussions with FÁS. The intention is that all training elements of contracts be given in the first instance to VECs and other State agencies for examination first.
Will the Minister agree that in all cases public bodies who are responsible for education and training should be given priority in the allocation of those extra training courses? Is the Minister aware that some of those who won the contracts against the City of Cork VEC approached the vocational educational committee for accommodation to hold the courses? Is the Minister aware that a number of private individuals have made large sums of money from the FÁS external training courses while at the same time the VEC, another State agency whose primary role is education and training, are crippled by a lack of finance? We heard about that last night. We are talking about a substantial sum of money because some of those courses cost up to £250,000. That is a lot of money to be taking out of the coffers of any education authority. It could be put to good use locally. VECs have the facilities and the expertise to run such courses. Will the Minister undertake to make public the criteria employed by FÁS in assessing tenders and, secondly, ensure that the City of Cork VEC are given reasonable information, as they have sought, in relation to these cases? I do not think they are asking for too much.
For the third time, I should like to suggest to the Deputy that he consult with FÁS.
I have consulted FÁS but without success.
There is a long understanding that they do not publish information because it only gives competitors and opportunity to obtain confidential information. The objective of granting first option to the education authorities is to get the maximum use of resources within the education and training systems, while at the same time meeting the requirements with regard to quality, cost effectiveness and delivery times. If what the Deputy is saying is correct, the matter should be cleared up and he should talk to the senior people in FÁS.
There are three remaining questions which the Chair is very anxious to dispose of before reaching the prescribed time. I am asking for the co-operation of the Minister and Members.