asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the contact, if any, his Department have had with the Libyan Government following the disclosure on a recent media report (details supplied) that the arms found on the Eksund emanated from Tripoli.
33.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Relations with Libya.
9.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the action or initiatives he has taken or proposes to take following the threat by the Libyan Colonel Gadaffi made in a recent media report (details supplied) that he would strike in Northern Ireland.
41.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in view of the recent disclosure in a media report (details supplied) of Libyan involvement in the arms shipment found on the Eksund, if he will sever all connections with the Libyan Government.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 33 and 41 together.
I have made it clear in the Dáil on a number of occasions that the Government's over-riding concern is to assess at all stages what are the most effective means of ensuring that neither Libya nor any other country offers support of any kind, moral, political or material to subversive elements in this country.
The Libyan authorities are fully aware of the unequivocal view of the Government that any support, moral or material, for the Provisional IRA from any source is unacceptable. The Libyan authorities can be under no doubts as to the position of this, and previous Irish Governments, on that important point of principle.
The French judicial investigation into the operation engaged in by the Eksund and its crew is continuing. The Garda and the French security forces remain in close contact in order to ensure that all relevant information is made available to the Government as this investigation develops. There have been no contacts between my Department and the Libyan authorities arising from the media reports referred to by Deputies. Such reports are neither an adequate nor satisfactory basis for diplomatic action of the type suggested in the question. As I have assured the Dáil in response to previous questions on this matter, when the full facts are available to them, the Government will carefully consider what further action may be required.
Does the Minister recall saying to me last May when I questioned him about the use by the Provisional IRA of a new explosive called Semtex which was alleged to have been procured by them from the Libyan authorities that I should not pay any attention to newspaper reports? Does he now remember that in the past 12 months a number of references have been made to the fact that this highly dangerous explosive is available to the Provisional IRA and that some attention must be paid to it? Does he also recall assuring us at that time that he would investigate the matter and report back to the Dáil? Has he the result of that examination yet? Does he not think it is now time to break off diplomatic relations with this country, the leader of which, in spite of the arrest of the Eksund in the past three months, still says he supports in every way the Provisional IRA? It is time we brought home to them finally that we do not accept in this country support of any kind for a subversive organisation.
On the last point, we have made our position quite clear to the Libyan authorities that we deplore and repudiate any effort made to offer any sustenance whatsoever to any subversive organisation in Ireland. On the diplomatic relations aspect, the Secretary of State, Mr. King, was asked a question by Mr. John Marshall, MP for Hendon South, on precisely these lines yesterday in the House of Commons——
Is the Minister suggesting collusion?
——in regard to arms having come in via Libya. Mr. King mentioned a number of other very respectable countries. I will quote exactly from what he said in regard to the supply of explosives and arms to Ireland, particularly Northern Ireland. He said: “I understand that weapons and explosives recently recovered in Ireland were manufactured in a number of countries including the Soviet Union, Romania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, the United States of America, Belgium, France, Great Britain, the Irish Republic, Norway and Portugal” in addition to Libya.
The Minister is being very naïve.
They are the facts. Certainly I would be very unwise and remiss if I proceeded in any way to withdraw diplomatic relations from a country with whom a number of countries all over the world, including ourselves, have trade relations, in advance of the ascertainment of all the facts. I can reassure the Deputy and the House that the facts are being investigated at present by the French authorities in conjunction with our own authorities and we are awaiting the full picture before taking whatever action we may consider appropriate.
Is the Minister suggesting that the Heads of Government of the countries he has listed have declared their support for the Provisional IRA?
I am not dealing in idle rhetoric and the Deputy is as well aware as I am of the sort of rhetoric in which Moslem and Arab leaders sometimes engage. That is part of the scene in the Middle East and North Africa. I am not dealing in rhetoric. I am dealing with the supply of arms and ammunitions and a long list of countries are guilty of the supply of arms not just to Northern Ireland or to Ireland as a whole but throughout the world. I have mentioned some of those countries and they were mentioned yesterday in the House of Commons.
This is a very serious implication by the Tánaiste that these countries are supplying arms to an illegal organisation in this country. That is the impression he is trying to leave. There is a total difference between the United States and Libya and between Romania and Libya and their attitude——
Brief, relevant questions please.
The Government have been pussy-footing around with this problem for too long. It is time——
I am afraid we are having statements rather than questions.
It is time the Libyan leader was made to understand that there are lives being lost as a result of the arms and explosives his country is supplying to the Provisional IRA which is an illegal, subversive organisation in this country determined to bring down this Government as well as——
I am awaiting questions and I am not getting any. I am calling on Deputy Kennedy.
The Minister, in giving the British response to this question, seems to indicate that the British have established the facts. Have we not established the facts of the situation? I am asking the Minister specifically: is it a fact that in recent months, arms for the Provisional IRA have come from Libya? Are we able to say that or not, or must we depend on Mr. Tom King's reply in the House of Commons? Can we not carry out our own investigation?
The point is this — I am now repeating myself and I apologise for so doing — there is at present an investigation being carried out by the French security authorities in which the Irish security authorities are participating fully. That investigation is proceeding as of now. What I was quoting was from a question yesterday in the House of Commons tabled by Mr. John Marshall which was to ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland what evidence he has of the countries of origin of the arms recently found in Ireland. Mr. King gave the list which I have outlined earlier in this House.
I see there are a number of Deputies offering. I shall be glad to facilitate them by way of brief, relevant supplementaries.
If by this time the British are able to supply their evidence, have our Government not got evidence? Is it a fact that arms have come from Libya for the Provisional IRA? How can the British have reached conclusions when we still have not?
As far as the British are concerned — and I might quote again from the reply given in the House of Commons — the weapons and explosives referred to and recovered in Ireland were manufactured in a number of countries, including those I have mentioned.
That is a complete red herring.
Seeing that the Minister has accepted totally the statement of Mr. Tom King to the British House of Commons yesterday in replying to Mr. John Marshall, will he now indicate if it is his intention to take up the matter with the Heads of Governments named in that statement?
The Deputy is widening the scope of the question.
We are going from the sublime to the ridiculous in this House.
Certainly that is true.
I do not propose to break off diplomatic relations with, say, the United States——
We are not asking the Minister to do so.
——Belgium or France. What is being proposed by Deputy Barry is that we break off diplomatic relations with Libya.
Will the Minister accept that there is a difference between the country of origin or manufacture of weapons and the country which supplies the weapons? Will he accept that in this case we are talking about weapons of various origins being supplied by the Libyan Government to the IRA? In the light of such weapons being supplied by the Libyan Government, will the Minister consider breaking off diplomatic relations with that country? Finally, will he indicate what recent communications there have been directly between our Government and the French Government in order to ascertain up-to-date information as to the rate at which the investigations into the Eksund episode are proceeding and what information has been gained therefrom to date?
That is a separate question.
The last question is important. I should say that we are in regular contact with the French authorities. The investigation is being conducted by the French and Irish security authorities to the fullest extent and there is total co-operation on both sides. I can assure the House that as far as a matter of this kind is concerned we take it very seriously. Furthermore, we will take the right action when we have the proper facts available. We want to ensure there is no subversive activity on this island — to the greatest extent possible to which our Government can so ensure — and our security forces are aware of that. I am more than anxious — as much if not more than most Members of this House — and am fully aware of the importance of this but one does not proceed to withdraw diplomatic relations until the final file is available and the case made. I reiterate that the security authorities both here and in France are preparing such a file on which our Government will take the appropriate decision on the security data available from those sources in due course.
We have made very little progress at Question Time so far. A final supplementary from Deputy Barry.
Will the Minister not agree that, of all the countries mentioned here this afternoon, the only one the Head of which has said they would give support of all types to the Provisional IRA, is Libya? Does the Minister not agree with that?
I have mentioned to the Deputy already exactly the sort of rhetoric which is engaged in by some leaders throughout the world. If, as Minister for Foreign Affairs, I took into account the extreme rhetoric of every leader throughout the world, then there would be very few people with whom we could communicate or have diplomatic relations.
There is more than rhetoric involved here.
I am calling the next question.
There is some extraordinary reason the Minister will not answer a simple question.
If Members want to debate these matters they had better find another time. They should remember this is Question Time.
That has been a disturbing and unsatisfactory response from the Minister this afternoon.