asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will release to Dáil Éireann the Craig Gardner report on abuses within the social welfare system.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Craig Gardner Report.
3.
The consultants were commissioned to examine the major payment systems in my Department in order to establish where the systems are most at risk and to advise on the best cost-effective measures to keep these risks to a minimum. Three reports have been submitted and these contain a large number of recommendations ranging from organisational arrangements to changes in particular controls and procedures. These matters are being considered in detail by my Department. In the meantime on an ongoing basis full account is taken of the recommendations of the consultants in the development of new schemes and procedures.
As far as publication of the reports is concerned, I expressed reservations about this to the House on a previous occasion. I have considered the matter further in the meantime and in view of the sensitive and confidential nature of many of the consultants' findings I am satisfied that it would not be appropriate to publish the details. I have, however, made arrangements to have a summary of the reports published in booklet form and this will be made available to Members of the House as quickly as possible.
Is Deputy Máirín Quill conceding to Deputy Pearse Wyse? She tabled the question. Deputy Wyse.
It is somewhat surprising to hear that the information is confidential and cannot be made available to Members of this House or to the general public. We hear quite a lot about abuse. We will know the extent of abuse, which is very prevalent, we understand, at present, from this report. It is of vital importance that Members of this House would have all the information in this report. I cannot understand why it is confidential and why we will only get some sort of breakdown of the report. The report, as submitted to the Minister, should be made available to every Member of this House.
We are talking about public money.
I will have to repeat what I said. The matters in the report are internal security matters within the Department. The Deputy must surely recognise that, if we are to prevent fraud and abuse, we have to ensure that the systems are fraud proof and are kept as confidential as possible. On that basis, the recommendations of the consultants deal with much of the day-to-day operations of the Department which it would not be appropriate to disclose publicly. I take it that the Deputy and other Deputies in the House are interested in the main recommendations and the main thrust of the report. I said I am prepared to publish a summary of the findings and I think that is very reasonable. I will have that available fairly shortly.
May I ask the Minister whether the publication of the parameters of the report might put a stop to the unwarranted attack, so prevalent now from the forces of the Right in this country, against people in receipt of social welfare and might put into some perspective the small amount of fraud that exists within the system in comparison with other areas of Government expenditure?
This question deals with the release of the Craig Gardner report.
In that respect the overall factual position would be contained in the summary.
May I ask the Minister, in regard to the release of the recommendations and the broad thrust of the investigation, in view of the extent to which social welfare represents a major financial burden on the State and in view of his recent statements about the extent of fraud within the system and the setting up of the investigation——
I am not prepared to allow any extraneous matter to be injected into this question.
Would the Minister——
It deals with the Craig Gardner report.
Would the Minister be agreeable to arrange, through the Whips, time for the House to debate the problem of social welfare fraud in the context of——
Sorry, Deputy, that is another question. You ought to put it down.
I take it there will be an adequate opportunity to do that within the context of the Department's Estimates debate. I am fairly certain that the summary will be available in advance of that and Deputies will have an opportunity to look at it.
When the Minister releases the report to Dáil Éireann, will it address itself to the question of the consequences of the delays in payment to legitimate social welfare recipients?
They are very extensive reports and they cover the operations of the Department in general. They cover such matters as the localisation of the service, which is along the lines the Deputy is querying, to ensure a more secure and a more efficient service to the clients.
Will the Minister say how long is the Craig Gardner report with his Department?
Since December. The Deputy is probably slightly confused by the fact that there was a report just before we came into office. The then Minister gave no commitment to publish the report but said that when the final reports had been received and evaluated she would make a detailed statement on the findings and the follow up action which was proposed. I am going further in that I am making a summary of the report available to Deputies. The final part of the report was received in December.